The Korean War is about to officially end

[Zeta333]

Good news for Trump if true.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/nort...nd-to-war.html

Not going to happen. NK will tie the removal of all us troops from SK as a requirement. us troops are all thats keeping NK from invading SK. SK knows this. And this is not the first time this sort of line has been followed by NK

[Aggrophobic]

Good news for Trump if true.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/nort...nd-to-war.html

It's not like Trump has anything to do with that though.
In any case, I have to see that to belive it.

[Ghostpanther]

Not necessarily. I am 'anti-Trump', because he makes a lot of bad decisions and just comes across as very unknowledgable and frankly, stupid, but that doesn't mean he can't get it right every now and then. I'm just not American and therefore don't follow everything he does and I might have missed his involvement in this.


Fake news? The only fake news I know are sites like The Onion. The rest is colored, both ways.

Either way, your argument is that Trump put up economic sanctions and that lead NK to this move, right? Other countries also imposed new (more) sanctions in the same time frame. How do we know which ones lead to this decision by NK? There was also the Olympics, which may have played a pivotal role in this. On the other hand, Trump threatened with nuclear war (and started a childish war on Twitter) and things nearly escalated.

I think at this time, we can't tell why NK is doing this, but personally, I think Trump is responsible. Just not in the way he wants. I think NK is giving him the one up, and saying 'You want war? Well, ha, we make peace. Suck on that!'. You know, like a little child (NK) doing the exact opposite of what the parent wants (Trump).

That explains some of your position.

But yeah, he does not deserve all the credit. But he does a lion's share of it, as the US is the one country which has the power to back up it's threats. NK can not afford to have a Arms race with the US. But China's cooperation with the sanctions and convincing NK to have a reasonable stance for it's own sake in the matter, was/is critical.

[Deleted]

I'll explain something real quick to a lot of the inexperienced losers on this forum (all SJWs) who haven't done any meaningful business (or political) negotiation in their sheltered barista / office drone lives

Trump is definitely not smart, or even a good/nice person, at all - but he has done business all over the world and he knows negotiating is often an irrational game

If others know your limits (ethical, reputational, etc) they will know how to limit you

When you deal with specific bargaining tactics that are purposely inflexible or irrational, responding with rationality (the calculated, expected response) is often detrimental

Instead sometimes you have to match these tactics with visible brinkmanship, and really expose the depth of the bargaining willpower of both sides, especially in how they have to go back to their own camps and have internal conversations about future prospects - whether it's percentage fees on a deal, or disarmament

Kim would have had to face his own staff and explain why this insane orange US president definitely won't launch nukes, or possibly face internal revolution

TLDR: Trump may have out-crazied Kim and thus brought peace to the Korean peninsula, a feat not accomplished thus far and one definitely worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize

infracted - minor flaming

[zorkuus]

I'll explain something real quick to a lot of the inexperienced losers on this forum (all SJWs)

Trump is definitely not smart, or even a good/nice person, at all - but he has done business all over the world and he knows negotiating is often an irrational game

When you deal with specific bargaining tactics that are purposely inflexible or irrational, responding with rationality (the calculated, expected response) is often detrimental

Instead sometimes you have to match these tactics with visible brinkmanship, and really expose the depth of the bargaining willpower of both sides, especially in how they have to go back to their own camps and have internal conversations about future prospects

Kim would have had to face his own staff and explain why this insane orange US president definitely won't launch nukes, or possibly face internal revolution

You're implying his crazy act is just an "act" not not him just being an impulsive dolt.

[GennGreymane]

Too bad people want to score internet points and ignore the efforts of sk in this.

[Deleted]

You're implying his crazy act is just an "act" not not him just being an impulsive dolt.

Very possible too, I actually think he might be senile / mentally ill in some way

Still, the result would nonetheless be NK disarmament, which is 100% Nobel Peace Prize worthy

[Mormolyce]

how do you become do disillusioned with the world and reality? where are you from? i need to know, to avoid that area. must be something in the water. but hey USA always the big bad guy right? never the good guys, always wrong! rawr!

I love how you accuse me of thinking the US is the bad guy when I'm explaining the US's foreign policy approach to contain North Korea for the last several decades.

Think before you post kek.

[Nefastus]

There is no good in allowing a totalitarian regime to continue existing, its basically the same thing as agreeing to human slavery.

Pretty much this. Will we just pretend that doesnt happen in there?

[Enthusiastic Steward]

A) This is the war between north and south. Not the "Korean War" as in the US and NK, who are still technically at war I believe.

The US and NK were never officially at war. US military involvement was officially through United Nations Command, and there was no official declaration of war by either nation against the other. The only two parties technically at war per terms of the armistice are North Korea and South Korea who have been operating under a cease-fire.

[schwank05]

Pyongyang is not locked to tourists. Thousands of non-Chinese tourists visit North Korea every year.

Why the hell would anyone want to go there though?

[Vaelorian]

So who won?

Whose next? You decide!!!

[caervek]

Why the hell would Trump get any credit for this? He has been doing everything to escalate it.

This x100%

It's amazing that this is apparently happening, and it's happening in spite of Trump.

[Deleted]

This x100%

It's amazing that this is apparently happening, and it's happening in spite of Trump.

That's the point - it's not

Trump's escalation exposed Kim's inability to follow through

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship

"For brinkmanship to be effective, the sides continuously escalate their threats and actions. However, a threat is ineffective unless credible—at some point, an aggressive party may have to prove its commitment to action.

The chance of things sliding out of control is often used in itself as a tool of brinkmanship, because it can provide credibility to an otherwise incredible threat. The Cuban Missile Crisis presents an example in which opposing leaders, namely U.S. president John F. Kennedy and Russian Leader Nikita Khrushchev, continually issued warnings, with increasing force, about impending nuclear exchanges, without necessarily validating their statements. Pioneering game theorist Thomas Schelling called this "the threat that leaves something to chance."[5]

The British intellectual Bertrand Russell compared nuclear brinkmanship to the game of chicken.[6] The principle between the two is the same, to create immense pressure in a situation until one person or party backs down, or both are annihilated."

[Mormolyce]

I'll explain something real quick to a lot of the inexperienced losers on this forum (all SJWs) who haven't done any meaningful business (or political) negotiation in their sheltered barista / office drone lives

Trump is definitely not smart, or even a good/nice person, at all - but he has done business all over the world and he knows negotiating is often an irrational game

If others know your limits (ethical, reputational, etc) they will know how to limit you

When you deal with specific bargaining tactics that are purposely inflexible or irrational, responding with rationality (the calculated, expected response) is often detrimental

Instead sometimes you have to match these tactics with visible brinkmanship, and really expose the depth of the bargaining willpower of both sides, especially in how they have to go back to their own camps and have internal conversations about future prospects - whether it's percentage fees on a deal, or disarmament

Kim would have had to face his own staff and explain why this insane orange US president definitely won't launch nukes, or possibly face internal revolution

TLDR: Trump may have out-crazied Kim and thus brought peace to the Korean peninsula, a feat not accomplished thus far and one definitely worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize

You know you're starting to sound like him right? Check out the parenthetical insults.

The funny part is, you seem to think that this wasn't North Korea's plan the whole time. What did Trump do to stop their strategy? Threaten them on twitter? LOL.

I'll break it down for you, since you apparently haven't done any meaningful business (or political) negotiation before, and therefore have no idea how anything works. North Korea is trying to get the thing it has always wanted - legitimacy. What did you think the nukes were for? Did you actually believe they were going to start a war with anyone? Fucking lol. No, they want to be recognised as a regional power. So they shake their dick around, show everyone they're a member of the nuke club, and then they come to the table as a legitimised government. The exact thing US foreign policy has been aimed at preventing for decades.

For bonus points, they even managed to convince Trump the bumblefuck to meet with Kim Jong Un, which again every former President could've done but explicitly avoided. Guess why. Oh yeah, because it legitimises the regime. Reminder: the US does not recognise North Korea as a country. How do you meet with the leader of a country that you don't recognise? Oh right, you don't, if you do that then you're accepting that the dictator Kim Jong Un is the legitimate ruler of that part of Korea. You know, the thing you fought the entire Korean War over.

Go back to playing with your stocks kiddo, you're way out of your depth here.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the point - it's not

Trump's escalation exposed Kim's inability to follow through

Ahahahaha, you actually think that's how international politics works, don't you?

Okay, let's hear it because I'm sure this will be funny. What was the next step Kim was going to take? The one he didn't follow through on, until the big scary Trump spooked him on twitter.

[Varitok]

Like I posted....the Trump haters will not give him any credit for it.

Because he deserves zero. You can go ahead and whine but its like saying I should give credit to Russia for a ceasefire in Ukraine.


OT: We should have ended NK years ago. We are allowing a regime who murders its citizens and leaders in the street for daring to question Kim Jong.

China is terrible in so many ways but they don't hold public executions and their citizens are free to travel wherever in the world they choose.

[Deleted]

You know you're starting to sound like him right? Check out the parenthetical insults.

The funny part is, you seem to think that this wasn't North Korea's plan the whole time. What did Trump do to stop their strategy? Threaten them on twitter? LOL.

I'll break it down for you, since you apparently haven't done any meaningful business (or political) negotiation before, and therefore have no idea how anything works. North Korea is trying to get the thing it has always wanted - legitimacy. What did you think the nukes were for? Did you actually believe they were going to start a war with anyone? Fucking lol. No, they want to be recognised as a regional power. So they shake their dick around, show everyone they're a member of the nuke club, and then they come to the table as a legitimised government. The exact thing US foreign policy has been aimed at preventing for decades.

For bonus points, they even managed to convince Trump the bumblefuck to meet with him, which again every former President could've done but explicitly avoided. Guess why. Oh yeah, because it legitimises the regime. Reminder: the US does not recognise North Korea as a country. How do you meet with the leader of a country that you don't recognise? Oh right, you don't, if you do that then you're accepting that the dictator Kim Jong Un is the legitimate ruler of that part of Korea. You know, the thing you fought the entire Korean War over.

Go back to playing with your stocks kiddo, you're way out of your depth here.

So to be clear - you're saying North Korean nuclear disarmament is an undesirable outcome because it legitimises the NK government?

If that's the thesis and I understand it correctly:

a) that's basically a conspiracy theory in how it distorts reality to find a "2nd order reality" etc

but

b) let's say it's correct, is an illegitimate nuclear NK really better? Really?

Your hatred of Trump and cult-like adherence to SJWism has turned you into an illuminati-jew-lizard-type conspiracy theorist, a left-wing version of Alex Jones

[Mormolyce]

The US and NK were never officially at war. US military involvement was officially through United Nations Command, and there was no official declaration of war by either nation against the other. The only two parties technically at war per terms of the armistice are North Korea and South Korea who have been operating under a cease-fire.

True but really more of a technicality. It's hard to declare war on a nation that you don't recognise the existence of.

[Mormolyce]

So to be clear - you're saying North Korean nuclear disarmament is an undesirable outcome because it legitimises the NK government?

If that's the thesis a) that's pretty consipracist but b) let's say it's correct, is an illegitimate nuclear NK better?

Really?

Your hatred of Trump and cult-like adherence to SJWism has turned you into an illuminati-jew-lizard-type conspiracy theorist, a left-wing version of Alex Jones

Oh, you just caught up to the last 60 years of US foreign policy? LOL.

If this is such a coup, then why didn't any of the previous Presidents arrange to meet with Kim Jong Un? Or his predecessors. You know, before they had nukes and were in a weaker bargaining position.

The really funny part of this is you accusing me of being a crazy left winger, while I'm explaining right wing US foreign policy objectives to you. You've really cracked through the satire barrier.

- - - Updated - - -

So who won?

Well America's aim was to push the North Korean regime out and contain China and Russia.

Gonna have to give it to NK.

[Strawberry]

Why the hell would anyone want to go there though?

Do you think tourist places are beaches, beautiful islands, parties, hookers and such?
I visit other countries to meet other cultures, to see new places, see other people, how they live, what they eat, etc. North Korea is vastly different than many countries in the world. I'm sure there's plenty to see and experience for a tourist. This is why people travel to North Korea.
Visiting say, Syria or Afghanistan as a tourist would be dumb as fuck, but North Koreans aren't terrorists.