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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    The content is for everyone.............how people choose to consume that content is entirely upto them, you will never fully control that whether you like it or not.

    Alienating or punishing what is currently the majority of the player base in this particular section of the game is just bad game design as a whole; a more structured solution is not "you will do this or suffer the consequences" it is how can we encourage more people to focus on the objectives and win the bg, which in a mmo is rewards funnily enough, rewards that warrant the effort.

    As i said before people are not arsing about in dungeons or raids because they are afraid of being kicked, its because they are there for the rewards of completing or in other words winning the dungeon/raid by killing the boss.

    There is no reason that the same principle cannot be applied to bgs to improve them for everyone, simple as that.
    how would you react if your favorite content was hijacked by players who have no interest in it and the reply you got was
    "deal with it"
    lol you can bet your arse people would behave the same way in pve if there was no punsihment.

    that said i agree that they should offer better incentives(though not getting booted works pretty well as such).

  2. #42
    Legendary!
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    Hate to break it to you but PvP has always been like this. It's not going to change now. =]

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    how would you react if your favorite content was hijacked by players who have no interest in it and the reply you got was
    "deal with it"
    lol you can bet your arse people would behave the same way in pve if there was no punsihment.

    that said i agree that they should offer better incentives(though not getting booted works pretty well as such).
    This is my reaction to my favorite content which is PvP. I first of all understand through experience that this is now how bgs are and have been for years now, ergo i am trying to suggest realistic fixes that are achievable and not detrimental to the game as a whole.

    Ok then, what do you think should be the "punishment" system for bgs?

    Because the vote kick system is totally inappropriate for pvp as it is too shallow a metric as it basically relies on the opinion of your peers, which it not something i would find very accurate with the majority of the pvp playerbase class knowledge.

    It works in dungeons or lfr as those encounter tend to be pretty one dimensional i.e your dps is shit, your healing is too low, you dont have enough gear or use active mitigation abilities properly as a tank, you stand in fire or don't do the require mechanics and cause wipes etc.

    PvP is far too deep a subject in terms of class roles in particular bgs or the dynamic of the objective i.e lets all vote kick the affliction lock as his damage is shit, but actually he's been sat defending stables the whole game and prevented 5 caps for instance. Its just not feasible to expect that kind of decision making process to ever be fair or right in most circumstances due to the immense multitude of variables that come with a pvp battleground and the overall lack of knowledge of the majority of the playerbase about other classes other than the ones they play.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    This is my reaction to my favorite content which is PvP. I first of all understand through experience that this is now how bgs are and have been for years now, ergo i am trying to suggest realistic fixes that are achievable and not detrimental to the game as a whole.

    Ok then, what do you think should be the "punishment" system for bgs?

    Because the vote kick system is totally inappropriate for pvp as it is too shallow a metric as it basically relies on the opinion of your peers, which it not something i would find very accurate with the majority of the pvp playerbase class knowledge.

    It works in dungeons or lfr as those encounter tend to be pretty one dimensional i.e your dps is shit, your healing is too low, you dont have enough gear or use active mitigation abilities properly as a tank, you stand in fire or don't do the require mechanics and cause wipes etc.

    PvP is far too deep a subject in terms of class roles in particular bgs or the dynamic of the objective i.e lets all vote kick the affliction lock as his damage is shit, but actually he's been sat defending stables the whole game and prevented 5 caps for instance. Its just not feasible to expect that kind of decision making process to ever be fair or right in most circumstances due to the immense multitude of variables that come with a pvp battleground and the overall lack of knowledge of the majority of the playerbase about other classes other than the ones they play.
    i'd never suggest adding vote kick to pvp because of the obvious abuse.. i'd however introduce an objective point score system that rewards you accordingly. i.e if you're just dicking around in the middle of nowhere or being afk you get nothing. that should be incentive enough.

  5. #45
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    It's always somebody else's fault.

    That aside, your teammates are not obligated to care about what you want. Should that annoy you, play PvP games that are 1 on 1, like Hearthstone or Dragon Ball FighterZ. Both have way better PvP than WoW, to boot.

  6. #46
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UwJ3Pg46WA


    (p.s. this is uploaded by a certain company/website - don't waste your money :>) in any case I think it's pretty instructive

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    i'd never suggest adding vote kick to pvp because of the obvious abuse.. i'd however introduce an objective point score system that rewards you accordingly. i.e if you're just dicking around in the middle of nowhere or being afk you get nothing. that should be incentive enough.
    Its not just as simple as that though is it?

    For instance how would you reward play in WSG if you don;t have the flag? Damage on the EFC? We all know that in an organised team that is not the tactic, its killing the healers first, so how would you gauge that? Are you going to award flag returns? How do you make that fair since everyone is spamming the flag when dropped so who deserves the points?

    Sat on stables for the majority of the game, how much do you award that? The guy may have not even have had to make one defensive play to save the node? Who gets the credit for capping each base if 5 of you are responsible for winning it but only one caps.

    The actual answer is there is already a points system in the game to reward most of the above, but there are so many variables and different circumstances that the system is totally shallow and always will be since the time and programming required to implement a totally fair system that reward each and every individual play you do as a player in bgs is pretty much impossible due the nature of the bg.

    An easy example being you could kill a healer on the road between two nodes in AB and it could win you the game since he was on his way to help defend a critical point, but didn't make it cause you stopped him. How to you reward that? Bearing in mind you just won the bg for your group by doing the one thing people complain about, fighting on the roads. A lot of plays in bgs are also about thinking outside the box and doing something different that confuses the enemy and those little plays can have a huge paradigm shift in how a bg goes i.e stuff like z axis juking which could end up with you not being on the node when its capped, so you get no credit, hardly fair.

    The answer is you cant.................with so many players the possibilities are infinite in terms of causality of each players actions, if you can come up with a fair reward structure that encompasses even a fraction of what goes on in a bg then you may as well write and program your own game.......
    Last edited by mmoc6c2e0bc3b9; 2018-05-01 at 11:26 PM.

  8. #48
    really curious on how many of these cry babies are alliance

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Osanger View Post
    Its not just as simple as that though is it?

    For instance how would you reward play in WSG if you don;t have the flag? Damage on the EFC? We all know that in an organised team that is not the tactic, its killing the healers first, so how would you gauge that? Are you going to award flag returns? How do you make that fair since everyone is spamming the flag when dropped so who deserves the points?

    Sat on stables for the majority of the game, how much do you award that? The guy may have not even have had to make one defensive play to save the node? Who gets the credit for capping each base if 5 of you are responsible for winning it but only one caps.

    The actual answer is there is already a points system in the game to reward most of the above, but there are so many variables and different circumstances that the system is totally shallow and always will be since the time and programming required to implement a totally fair system that reward each and every individual play you do as a player in bgs is pretty much impossible due the nature of the bg.

    An easy example being you could kill a healer on the road between two nodes in AB and it could win you the game since he was on his way to help defend a critical point, but didn't make it cause you stopped him. How to you reward that? Bearing in mind you just won the bg for your group by doing the one thing people complain about, fighting on the roads. A lot of plays in bgs are also about thinking outside the box and doing something different that confuses the enemy and those little plays can have a huge paradigm shift in how a bg goes i.e stuff like z axis juking which could end up with you not being on the node when its capped, so you get no credit, hardly fair.

    The answer is you cant.................with so many players the possibilities are infinite in terms of causality of each players actions, if you can come up with a fair reward structure that encompasses even a fraction of what goes on in a bg then you may as well write and program your own game.......
    proximity and interaction. if you're attacking efc you'll be getting points, if you're healing some one attacking the efc you'll be getting points, if you carry the flag you'll be getting points, if you kill someone attacking the ones defending your flag carrier you'll be getting points.

    same goes with nodes if you're near hostile enemy controlled or contested ones you'll get points.. if you're at one controlled by your team you'll be getting points gradually even if not attacked and a nice bonus if attacked.

    yes you'd be losing out if you're in the middle of the road killing that healer but lets be honest most of the times people are fighting there there just chasing some rando they got outnumbered and they're trying to get the killing blow.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    So odd. I read that as "I will cut off my hand to piss someone else off for a second." I think what you miss is that I don't get "mad", I am just sad that you are so bad at a simple game. Lots of times I just afk out of a garbage game with garbage people and do other things.

    This thread for me is mostly about trying to get people to see that they are affecting other actual people in the world.
    "Garbage game with garbage people," creating a thread about it...sounds like it makes you mad. Expecting other people to play a game the way you want them to play it because it "affects other actual people" is just laughable. Don't get so worked up about it, and play some rated BGs or arenas if you can't stand the thought that some people might not play a random BG the way you play it.

    I carry my team in probably 9/10 BGs I play. But when I see people like you whining, almost universally one of the lower performers of the team, sometimes it's just plain more amusing to feed the rage.

  11. #51
    Even if you're a god at PvP, you don't have a ton of control over the outcome of a battleground. However, you do have some control. You always have some control.

    I was really frustrated with battlegrounds for a long time in Legion on my warlock. I'd be top damage and kills but get on huge losing streaks. I found that there were a thousand small optimizations I could make to help out more with objectives when I started focusing on those rather than just damage and peeling.

    I'm rarely at the top of the charts anymore, but I'm always the one getting the most victory points/azerite or solo capping under defended bases for my team. Most players are focused only on their character, the person they are fighting, and nothing else. You can exploit that as any class by spam clicking the objective if you're not being directly targeted, and it actually works a lot of the time. And remember you're not playing on an RBG. You can cap flags and defend nodes as a resto shaman.

    In some battlegrounds, all people need is someone calling out where to go next. Silvershard and Deepwind Mines are the prime examples. If you just type in chat "Hit South" when there isn't much going on, people will often do so.
    Last edited by Danvash; 2018-05-03 at 02:27 PM.

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