Bfa Beta Club - Ret Paladins

[Rhaxus]

Yes, they do.
Spell steal removes a buff just aswell. The only difference is that they also benefit from said buff.

damn, i completely forgot about dispel magic and the enemy effect from mass dispel o.O

[Alanar]

Get to 120. When I leveled Ret felt alright damage wise, but the moment you hit 120 it becomes quite painful to play ret.

This is not rven true lol.
Tell us what you find painfull and why?
Ret is one of the more smooth specs right now in beta...

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When attacked , you strike back.
That’s like retribution 101
Did not know anyone sees me that way, interesting.
Well guess it’s a part of character and being a scion of Phoenician I have to fit

I am always(almost always) on topic.
Which is why , since our swell Baneguy apparently cannot respond, I will raise the point of Steed, Crusade, FoJ and WoA nerfs.
Also I would like to point out that belves and dks and dhs are getting an offensive dispel in bfa and how it will affect oh so powerful ret utility.
Also, Retribution shitpassive. It stays, apparently. Why.

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I am wrong because I despise developers and don’t like the spec? Now that’s rich
I don’t need to have beta to form an opinion and “you have no beta” is moot as far as rebuttals go.
I can watch talent and abilities changes, I can watch videos and listen to feedback to form my own opinion.
That is how I judge the spec.

Who am I spitting at ? Be specific. I’m never personal. I debunk opinions and arguments.
What is quite ironic is that you are the one whose currently spitting on me at the moment.
Bullshit? What bullshit? I will have to ask you once more to be a bit specific.
What I said you deem bullshit and why?
Fight my points, not me.
You do not want to fight me. Nor can you succeed.


No, I realize I am the voice of perspective.
I hold off the rose tint.
Just imagine what a horrible place this forum it would be if not for me.

Rl has nothing to do with this forum, by the way.
Unless you want me to throw the “irl problems “ jest right back at you with your burning need to spit on me

The thing is.. your complaining about things you read and find.. bfa ret just plays conpleyely different snd your not even missing tbose utility things.
Did you test out a geared 120 ret yet?

[Morally Grey Storm]

The thing is.. your complaining about things you read and find.. bfa ret just plays conpleyely different snd your not even missing tbose utility things.
Did you test out a geared 120 ret yet?

What is completely different about bfa ret?
It’s literally, yeah - literally copy pasted legion ret, albeit somewhat trimmed here and there.
The only baseline, obvious, mild difference is judgement window being absent. Which means we’re back to square one, the fcfs potation.
In order to make it feel somewhat different, you have to pick a very specific maintenance buff talent at level 100, whence said talent is, quite possibly, not going to stay relevant for more than 2 tiers while being nonexistent in pvp and highly questionable in m+ dungeons.
Do I have to point out once more that Crusade was made unviable? Why would you call it complaining if it’s a real, impending issue ?
Do I have to point out the Steed nerf? Why would you keep low profile about it?
Don’t want any part of mediocrity or decency, I’ve had enough,
Sick and tired, bring the Storm, or ret is gone.

[Fargus]

People still taking it up the rectum as far as Blizzard's design goes, I see. One of the reasons I stopped playing WoW.

[Kalisandra]

what DID happen is a nerf to the allready horrendous mobility of ret, which i find generally uncalled for. aoe/ cleave and retaining of traits is irrelevant, since they changed the way wow is supposed to play and feel and they haven't communicated the intended role for ret in that new gameplay direction.

They do this every couple of expansions - decide that 'melee should have downtime'. What this turns out to mean is that Ret (and sometimes Enhance) gets great big holes in its rotation, and a couple of energy/rage specs get to have terrible resource generation. Everyone else continues on as normal, as the ruling somehow doesn't apply to them.

They're doing it again, but this time with less open discussion, and apparently only to Ret (and Frost, but they were told there was more coming for them, so maybe not). Arms has minimal downtime unless you're really dumb with rage management, Fury looks to be getting fixed up so it won't suck too. Everyone should note that this change is not just from not having all the shiny legendary, artefact weapon, and tier bonuses from Legion - Crusader Strike has had its cooldown extended, as has Judgement, and our talent choices for speeding up the rotation (or slowing it down) have been reduced. BfA Ret's base rotation is slower than Legion's, and cannot be made to be as fast.

There are good things in BfA's Ret design, like the fixing of Mastery. However, nerfed mobility, and too many effects are just some kind of Colossus Smash or maintenance buff.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

People still taking it up the rectum as far as Blizzard's design goes, I see. One of the reasons I stopped playing WoW.

And we are so grateful you stopped playing, now all that's left is for you to quit WoW related forums..... Godspeed!

[Fargus]

And we are so grateful you stopped playing, now all that's left is for you to quit WoW related forums..... Godspeed!

I wasn't aware that you're the spokesman for WoW players here, ret pallies in particular. But then again, if you are, no wonder why Blizzard persist with terrible design choices. Because they listen to people like who whose thoughts of "balance" and spec design are primarily around duelling, and not anything tangible.

Tell you what, go into a high-end raid where all the dps are similarly geared and skilled, and get back to me.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I wasn't aware that you're the spokesman for WoW players here, ret pallies in particular. But then again, if you are, no wonder why Blizzard persist with terrible design choices. Because they listen to people like who whose thoughts of "balance" and spec design are primarily around duelling, and not anything tangible.

Tell you what, go into a high-end raid where all the dps are similarly geared and skilled, and get back to me.

How DARE you undermine his credibility!
He said he mains ret in legion while skillfully ignoring requests to state his pvp/dragonslaying experience or link his paladin!
There is zero reason not to trust him as he has tigers blood and wins all the duels at 110 level which is a surefire proof he’s right and we’re not!

[Ilivath]

What is completely different about bfa ret?
It’s literally, yeah - literally copy pasted legion ret, albeit somewhat trimmed here and there.
The only baseline, obvious, mild difference is judgement window being absent. Which means we’re back to square one, the fcfs potation.
In order to make it feel somewhat different, you have to pick a very specific maintenance buff talent at level 100, whence said talent is, quite possibly, not going to stay relevant for more than 2 tiers while being nonexistent in pvp and highly questionable in m+ dungeons.
Do I have to point out once more that Crusade was made unviable? Why would you call it complaining if it’s a real, impending issue ?
Do I have to point out the Steed nerf? Why would you keep low profile about it?
Don’t want any part of mediocrity or decency, I’ve had enough,
Sick and tired, bring the Storm, or ret is gone.

Why would Inquisition only be relevant for 2 tiers? Why would it be highly questionable in M+?

They do this every couple of expansions - decide that 'melee should have downtime'. What this turns out to mean is that Ret (and sometimes Enhance) gets great big holes in its rotation, and a couple of energy/rage specs get to have terrible resource generation. Everyone else continues on as normal, as the ruling somehow doesn't apply to them.

They're doing it again, but this time with less open discussion, and apparently only to Ret (and Frost, but they were told there was more coming for them, so maybe not). Arms has minimal downtime unless you're really dumb with rage management, Fury looks to be getting fixed up so it won't suck too. Everyone should note that this change is not just from not having all the shiny legendary, artefact weapon, and tier bonuses from Legion - Crusader Strike has had its cooldown extended, as has Judgement, and our talent choices for speeding up the rotation (or slowing it down) have been reduced. BfA Ret's base rotation is slower than Legion's, and cannot be made to be as fast.

There are good things in BfA's Ret design, like the fixing of Mastery. However, nerfed mobility, and too many effects are just some kind of Colossus Smash or maintenance buff.

Judgment is still a 12s base CD.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why would Inquisition only be relevant for 2 tiers? Why would it be highly questionable in M+

Because the main point behind inquizishun is haste and it will be alleviated as you gear up in regards to tiers.
Because you will not be able to maintain it while running from pack to pack in m+
Glad you didn’t ask about pvp.

[Ilivath]

Because the main point behind inquizishun is haste and it will be alleviated as you gear up in regards to tiers.
Because you will not be able to maintain it while running from pack to pack in m+
Glad you didn’t ask about pvp.

It is a damage and haste multiplier. That alone will make it relevant the entire expansion. Coupled with the fact our 3 Azerite Pieces have no secondary stats we will have much less haste than previous expansions as well.

Why can't we maintain it while running between packs? The duration can be up to 1 Minute long and does not fall off out of combat. Holy Power as well doesn't decay until 15s and it does that individually for each HP not all at once. IT is a very easy buff to maintain.

I don't PvP anymore and am not going to comment on a topic I have essentially 0 relevant knowledge of.

[Alanar]

Because the main point behind inquizishun is haste and it will be alleviated as you gear up in regards to tiers.
Because you will not be able to maintain it while running from pack to pack in m+
Glad you didn’t ask about pvp.

How is it not maintainable? Its easy and lasts for a whole minute. Holy power isnt that hard to get.
Judgement gives holy power and we lost the terrible collosal smash mechanic. It plays alot differently.
I dont think many have question for you atm since your not talki ga bout actual exp.. no offense, but I feel completely 180 different about ret.
Bfa ret--> legion. Its more flexible as well if you think about it. You dont have to do all your shit in 8 sec window which gives you already some breathing space.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

I wasn't aware that you're the spokesman for WoW players here

You said you quit WoW.... So why you still post on WoW related forums?

When I quit SWTOR, I didnt stay posting on SWTOR related forums.... But maybe its cause i got common sense. It's just not as common as it used to be eh.

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Bfa ret--> legion. Its more flexible as well if you think about it. You dont have to do all your shit in 8 sec window which gives you already some breathing space.

BFA Ret > Legion Ret. Without a doubt

I was in Legion beta, and Ret in legion beta was not in a good place so I mained Havoc DH when legion launched. I remember how horrible the rotation was when Blade of Wrath was a separate strike and not a proc talent.

Looking forward to the 120 premades then I get to test arena and BGs at 120

[Fargus]

You said you quit WoW.... So why you still post on WoW related forums?

When I quit SWTOR, I didnt stay posting on SWTOR related forums.... But maybe its cause i got common sense. It's just not as common as it used to be eh.

Just because I said I quit WoW, doesn't mean it's permanent. I still look at the state of the game from time to time in hopes of improvement. I still have friends in-guild who still play, which might factor in any future decisions. Also, there's more to this forum than just WoW. Perhaps your "common sense" needs adjustment to take these factors into consideration.

Regardless, you don't speak for everyone here.

[Morally Grey Storm]

How is it not maintainable? Its easy and lasts for a whole minute. Holy power isnt that hard to get.
Judgement gives holy power and we lost the terrible collosal smash mechanic. It plays alot differently.
I dont think many have question for you atm since your not talki ga bout actual exp.. no offense, but I feel completely 180 different about ret.
Bfa ret--> legion. Its more flexible as well if you think about it. You dont have to do all your shit in 8 sec window which gives you already some breathing space.

Of course we shall see what may come.
But I’m not sold on this , this inquizishun.
You feel different- okay. It’s your view and opinion.
I have mine. And I’m not supposed to take your opinion as a gospel and unflinchingly agree with you because of your beta access.
Flexible, yeah right. It’s fcfs all over again. It is basically mop levels of potation engagement again. Except with a lot less utility and a lot more issues regarding what’s left of said utility, magnified by fething shite mobility.
36 seconds to build a single SH cast. Flexible utility, sure as sure.

[Alanar]

Of course we shall see what may come.
But I’m not sold on this , this inquizishun.
You feel different- okay. It’s your view and opinion.
I have mine. And I’m not supposed to take your opinion as a gospel and unflinchingly agree with you because of your beta access.
Flexible, yeah right. It’s fcfs all over again. It is basically mop levels of potation engagement again. Except with a lot less utility and a lot more issues regarding what’s left of said utility, magnified by fething shite mobility.
36 seconds to build a single SH cast. Flexible utility, sure as sure.

Wait what? lol Well sure thing you believe what ever you will my friend.
I am not here to prove anything, but I don't take randoms theatre talk from you when you have no clue how it feels or plays.
It's funny btw how the people without beta acces complain and the one who have enjoy the spec alot more, but anyway this was a completely waste of time, il leave this pointless talk to go back OT.

Just done with honour bound full warcampain (horde side) and it's full of bugs atm, had to retake quests a couple of times with dozens of lue errors, I made some screen from last part will dropp them here later.

[Morally Grey Storm]

What is the difference between testing potation on beta myself and watching others doing the same ?
Tell me please, my friend.
I seem to not grasp this vast, gaping, enormous difference.

[Alanar]

You said you quit WoW.... So why you still post on WoW related forums?

When I quit SWTOR, I didnt stay posting on SWTOR related forums.... But maybe its cause i got common sense. It's just not as common as it used to be eh.

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BFA Ret > Legion Ret. Without a doubt

I was in Legion beta, and Ret in legion beta was not in a good place so I mained Havoc DH when legion launched. I remember how horrible the rotation was when Blade of Wrath was a separate strike and not a proc talent.

Looking forward to the 120 premades then I get to test arena and BGs at 120

Yea that was horrible, BoW right now is like the highest hitting thing which feels weird, the proc could easily go baseline or maybe altered since every one and their mothers will use this ( so no real choice there atm)
Try some with warmode on, it's super fast xp and allows you to use the 30% speed buff outdoors on freedom or hammer of recknoning, whic does 30k+ damage, which is very strong right now.

Yea, there is no real way to test pvp atm, wargames are bugged and no one seems to be doing randoms, i am in the pvp q for islands atm to see if any one is doing those.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Am I wrong about utility?
Am I wrong about SH being weak and taking 36 seconds to build?
Am I wrong about about mobility?
Or are you incapable of debating points instead of debating persons?

[Alanar]

What is the difference between testing potation on beta myself and watching others doing the same ?
Tell me please, my friend.
I seem to not grasp this vast, gaping, enormous difference.

Well it's always different when playing it yourself to my exp realy, this is no different.
But honestly why would you care? you don't sound like a guy who wants to know anything but your own opinion am I right?

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Am I wrong about utility?
Am I wrong about SH being weak and taking 36 seconds to build?
Am I wrong about about mobility?
Or are you incapable of debating points instead of debating persons?

Mobility for what? Warmode, arenas, raids? it's extremely vague and what your hinting at? Ive had no issues with mobility so far so how can you?
This is not debating my friend, your just being naiev and it realy feels like a waste of time, you just made a second post just to dismiss my experience in the beta?