Page 21 of 27 FirstFirst ...
11
19
20
21
22
23
... LastLast
  1. #401
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    23,927
    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    Trump hush money *hides*
    Fox News Media is proud of our 2020 election coverage, which stands in the highest tradition of American journalism, and we will vigorously defend against this baseless lawsuit in court," the media company said in its response.
    Equally outrageously hilarious as sad

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's how I see it. 3 isn't a win except when compared with 0. And in that case it's a huge win - especially considering the Rapist and their resources.
    And now it's a "Huge win"

    Jesus.

    The whole prosecution of rapists has been set back by like a decade...but wow...what a huge win it is that a man that drugged and raped ~60 women served less than even the minimum of his sentence.

    "Rapist goes free because of legal technicality" is never a win. Never.

    You know you have low standards for success when getting the consolation prize counts as a win...
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-07-01 at 01:57 AM.

  3. #403
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Reading up on this, I'm honestly flabbergasted.

    Cosby is guilty that's beyond doubt. He practically confessed in exchange for vague promises of being immune to any future prosecution.

    A promise that was never properly put into writing. The court simply chose to accept a vague promise made in a press release by a former prosecutor.

    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    The law doesn't apply to the wealthy in Western countries. Lol.

    Once again, statuatory limitations are stupid especially when it comes to sex crimes because it turns justice into a game of how long rich people can keep their victims under NDA.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-07-01 at 01:59 AM.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  4. #404
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.

  5. #405
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    23,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Reading up on this, I'm honestly flabbergasted.

    Cosby is guilty that's beyond doubt. He practically confessed in exchange for vague promises of being immune to any future prosecution.

    A promise that was never properly put into writing. The court simply chose to accept a vague promise made in a press release by a former prosecutor.

    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    If you remove Cosby from the equation and look at shady stuff thats been done in the name of the US justice system, I'm glad such a thing wouldn't need to be in writing. A prosecutor could easily dupe someone out of their rights with a 'deal', which they already of plenty of ways to achieve that anyway.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    And now it's a "Huge win"

    Jesus.

    The whole prosecution of rapists has been set back by like a decade...but wow...what a huge win it is that a man that drugged and raped ~60 women served less than even the minimum of his sentence.

    "Rapist goes free because of legal technicality" is never a win. Never.

    You know you have low standards for success when getting the consolation prize counts as a win...
    You keep saying this. But factually its not true. Laws all over the country have been changed due to this case. 10 years back? Hyperbole. Its not even comparable to chauvin in any regard either. No laws have changed with that case.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    You keep saying this. But factually its not true. Laws all over the country have been changed due to this case. 10 years back? Hyperbole. Its not even comparable to chauvin in any regard either. No laws have changed with that case.
    It's not going to matter when the victims see this as proof that it's better to stay silent...

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.
    I don't blame the lawyer. He's doing his job.

    The ethics and morality of being a lawyer are complicated, but attorneys being able to put aside their own personal beliefs to give the best representation possible to their clients whether guilty or not is the cornerstone of our justice system.

    Otherwise we don't have adversarial courts, we'd have inquisitions and kangaroo courts, something that already happens to people who can't afford proper representation.

    The judges in this case on the other hand.

    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  9. #409
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Love, Cassie & Nina
    Posts
    55,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.
    Strongly reminded of this:

    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.
    I know they are doing what they are paid to do. But getting a rapist out of prison just because its your job isn't exactly an excuse for me.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I know they are doing what they are paid to do. But getting a rapist out of prison just because its your job isn't exactly an excuse for me.
    It's not just what they are paid to do. It is what they are ethically obligated to do.

    Again, they are not the ones at fault here.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-07-01 at 02:17 AM.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's not going to matter when the victims see this as proof that it's better to stay silent...
    This isnt a bubble. Metoo all other high profile rape convictions. 10 years back. Sure 10 years after leaping forward centuries if not more.

  13. #413
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    38,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I don't blame the lawyer. He's doing his job.

    The ethics and morality of being a lawyer are complicated, but attorneys being able to put aside their own personal beliefs to give the best representation possible to their clients whether guilty or not is the cornerstone of our justice system.

    Otherwise we don't have adversarial courts, we'd have inquisitions and kangaroo courts, something that already happens to people who can't afford proper representation.

    The judges in this case on the other hand.

    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.
    The thing is that pertained to a specific case there were other charges.... I don't recall him going to jail over that single charge. So it'd be like saying "you had a deal with A and were convicted of B C D but... becuase of the deal with A screw B C D"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    It's not just what they are paid to do. It is what they are ethically obligated to do.

    Again, they are not the ones at fault here.
    You give poor legal arguments. It is not what they are ethically obligated to do because no lawyer is obligated to be unethical. You can very simple use say virtue ethics to say the actions are unethical and only an unethical person would perform such actions. Lawyers aren't forced to defend people they know are guilty of bad shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The thing is that pertained to a specific case there were other charges.... I don't recall him going to jail over that single charge. So it'd be like saying "you had a deal with A and were convicted of B C D but... becuase of the deal with A screw B C D"

    - - - Updated - - -



    You give poor legal arguments. It is not what they are ethically obligated to do because no lawyer is obligated to be unethical. You can very simple use say virtue ethics to say the actions are unethical and only an unethical person would perform such actions. Lawyers aren't forced to defend people they know are guilty of bad shit.
    They aren't being unethical here though...

  15. #415
    Well shit. But 3 years and a ruined reputation where it's out there what Cosby did is better than nothing. Especially at his age.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They aren't being unethical here though...
    You're conflating the legality of the lawyer's situation with being ethical. Yes, it is what the lawyers are paid to do and it may also very well be saving their own hides from being disbarred. But will never be ethical or morally right to get a rapist out of prison. Just because its your job or the law demands it doesn't automatically make it ethical.

  17. #417
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    38,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They aren't being unethical here though...
    You don't seem to be able to think this problem through clearly.

    Here:

    "Is it ethical for a lawyer to fight to free a person they know is guilty, simply because it is part of their job? Knowing that the act they're guilty of is horribly unethical?

    Universalised you could therefore say "It is ethical to fight for people to not be punished for committing unethical acts"

    Now consider:

    In such a world where it is ethical to fight for people to not be punished for unethical crimes that people are 100% guilty of would mean there is no proper justice. The intended world we live in expects that people will be punished for their crimes, not that their crimes will go unpunished if a third actor fights to say "yes it is unethical, but this technicality though." Another example in this world says it is ethical for a confessed murderer to get off of a crime due to a technicality, and the lawyer who knows they're guilty without a doubt can't be ethical since they released a known murderer back to the streets without their punishment terms being met since not they're suddenly deemed not able to the charged This is not the type of people that's expected...

    Or let's try another way.

    Is it ethical for lawyers to fight for people they know are guilty and put them back on the streets simply because it is part of their job? Universlaisd, the lawyers job is for their client and to do whatever is best for their client. In this same vein it is ethical for actors within a company to do whatever they can that's in the best interest of their client/business

    In such a world it would be ethical to dump chemicals in lakes near residences because it is in the best interest of the business and the greater societal harms are not the concerns of the person doing whatever is best for the business

    Another way to look at it...

    In such a world punishment for crimes can be argued out even when the person is 100% guilty and says they are, if it is part of one's job, not related to guilt. This creates a contradiction where society expects people to be punished for crimes, not freed because of individual relationships with clients.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    You're conflating the legality of the lawyer's situation with being ethical. Yes, it is what the lawyers are paid to do and it may also very well be saving their own hides from being disbarred. But will never be ethical or morally right to get a rapist out of prison. Just because its your job or the law demands it doesn't automatically make it ethical.
    Like my scenario in response to him proves.

    It is ethical for a business to dump chemicals in lakes if it is in the interest of the business and the agent working for the business makes that decision. There's nothing "unethical" about that action in such a world where all that matters are the clients and what the professional can do to benefit the client.

    Society be damned.

    People often think "but legal so what prob?" as if that's where it ends
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You don't seem to be able to think this problem through clearly.

    Here:

    "Is it ethical for a lawyer to fight to free a person they know is guilty, simply because it is part of their job? Knowing that the act they're guilty of is horribly unethical?

    Universalised you could therefore say "It is ethical to fight for people to not be punished for committing unethical acts"

    Now consider:

    In such a world where it is ethical to fight for people to not be punished for unethical crimes that people are 100% guilty of would mean there is no proper justice. The intended world we live in expects that people will be punished for their crimes, not that their crimes will go unpunished if a third actor fights to say "yes it is unethical, but this technicality though." Another example in this world says it is ethical for a confessed murderer to get off of a crime due to a technicality, and the lawyer who knows they're guilty without a doubt can't be ethical since they released a known murderer back to the streets without their punishment terms being met since not they're suddenly deemed not able to the charged This is not the type of people that's expected...
    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/c...FourthEdition/

    (d) Defense counsel is the client’s professional representative, not the client’s alter-ego. Defense counsel should act zealously within the bounds of the law and standards on behalf of their clients, but have no duty to, and may not, execute any directive of the client which violates the law or such standards. In representing a client, defense counsel may engage in a good faith challenge to the validity of such laws or standards if done openly.
    (f) Defense counsel should be knowledgeable about, and consider, alternatives to prosecution or conviction that may be applicable in individual cases, and communicate them to the client. Defense counsel should be available to assist other groups in the community in addressing problems that lead to, or result from, criminal activity or perceived flaws in the criminal justice system.
    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...is-guilty.html

    Defense attorneys are ethically bound to zealously represent all clients, those whom they think will be justly found guilty as well as those whom they think are factually innocent. (See Canon 7, ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility.) A vigorous defense is necessary to protect the innocent and to ensure that judges and citizens—and not the police—have the ultimate power to decide who is guilty of a crime.
    The lawyers did their job to the best of their ability. Unless you can show they did something that violates the law or legal standards... they are not the ones to be blamed for what has transpired here. Blame the prosecutor that made the immunity deal in the first place, blame the prosecutor that ignored that deal, and/or, blame the judge that agreed with the defense's case.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-07-01 at 03:38 AM.

  19. #419
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    23,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I know they are doing what they are paid to do. But getting a rapist out of prison just because its your job isn't exactly an excuse for me.
    Unless they have a habit of defending scumbags, its more up upholding the justice system. In a moral and just system everyone a fair trial. Even if the person was caught in 4K, even if that person is a piece of crap. Its not to make things easier for them but to try to be as fair as possible with everyone that comes before a bench, the guilty, innocent, and everything in between.

    Some lawyers defend the guilty because they they are paid by their client to get them off. Others defend the guilty to make sure the justice system is held to a particular standard and the sentence served is appropiate. The system is retributive enough.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  20. #420
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    38,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/c...FourthEdition/





    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...is-guilty.html



    The lawyers did their job to the best of their ability. Unless you can show they did something that violates the law or legal standards... they are not the ones to be blamed for what has transpired here. Blame the prosecutor that made the immunity deal in the first place, blame the prosecutor that ignored that deal, and/or, blame the judge that agreed with the defense's case.
    So it is ethical for an agent of company A to dump chemicals in a lake in order to zealously defend the company’s motives of profit. We get it.

    You don’t care about the broader societal issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •