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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    The entitlement is strong with this one.

    If that "Trial" joins the group and contributes, they deserve a shot at loot. Period. I don't give a damn how many of your "High Quality Always There" mains are in the guild-run. The idea that everyone else should give up the chance at improving their characters until 3-4 weeks or months or whatever point it is that you deign to say they're worthy of gaining some kind of loot.

    That kind of bullshit thinking is what destroys progression guilds because people cycle in and out of the game was they burn out and you -need- "Trials" to join in and complete content. But if those "Trials" know they're going to have any loot they could use be handed off to someone you like better (Who may even have better gear than they do) they're not going to join up and help you take down that next boss.

    That kind of entitled thinking is what kills the raiding scene, making it less and less open and more and more elitist is not the way to get the raiding population (And thus the subscriber base) to grow.
    I get it that people who are trial for a guild want to have a shot at loot. But a lot of trials are also understandable about the fact that they can't get a shot of loot. You have to prove that you are trustworthy person who can pull their weight and where items are not getting wasted on (which are important to actually progress on a group).

    Do you know how frustrating it is when you gear a person and that person is joining another guild/quitting WoW during progression because they are either unloyal (guild hopping helps often), or make up their mind about WoW at all and quit? It's a huge hit on the motivation of people building up a raid/guild who put a lot of work into making a guild thrive. I can guarantee that this change will hit a lot of new guilds who try to build up a good raiding guild, because people will get unmotivated fast.

    Also the point is that you can always search another raid/guild which do not have such restrictions. That's why people are pissed off. You take them the opportunity to buld their guild/raid as they want it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    Maybe people should care more about the boss kill than who is getting the loot then.
    Or we think about the future and who would make the best use of gear so we can progress on the later bosses...?


    Also something I want to point out to everyone against my OP, you still have coins and you can still get a shot at loot you want as a trial as a result. Just because you don't get an EXTRA shot at loot, you're potentially fucking over the guild you're trialing for. Do you not understand that at all? Who is really the greedy ones here? Fucking over 19 other people so you can have 2 shots instead of 1.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    If you can't deal with a trial getting loot while you don't, you don't deserve to run a guild.

    Deal with it.
    You're the one who's wrong here and all this forced change is going to do is make it so that these 10/11M style guilds wouldn't give those 2-5/11 players a shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Or we think about the future and who would make the best use of gear so we can progress on the later bosses...?
    I doubt you play at a level where a couple bits of gear make an actual difference, other than to a couple of elitist 5/11M players fake ego.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You're the one who's wrong here and all this forced change is going to do is make it so that these 10/11M style guilds wouldn't give those 2-5/11 players a shot.
    We definitely wouldn't be giving these players a try, at least not in our reclear runs. We'd only bring them in for Argus if PL was forced in N+ raiding.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    Maybe people should care more about the boss kill than who is getting the loot then.

    If someone is in your guild who you don't want getting loot, then they shouldn't be in your guild.

    It really is that simple.

    This entire loot change is honestly to combat community elitism and toxicity.
    And people who are decent at raiding are 100% looking forward to kill a boss than the loot, but they also know that loot is really important to push progress further.

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    I doubt you play at a level where a couple bits of gear make a difference.
    That doesn't make their point wrong.
    9

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    I doubt you play at a level where a couple bits of gear make a difference.
    Oh yes because Mythic Argus isn't a boss that matters about bits of gear. More gear would help us solidify getting him within the 8th rage.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  9. #29
    Because you totally would have downed that boss without the trial TOTALLY! Here's an idea....if you don't like the idea of someone NOT A CORE RAIDER getting loot then don't take any who isn't a CORE RAIDER on your raids.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  10. #30
    I play in an organized guild that uses Master looter for mythic, and i have directly benefited from that. But I support this change. Its an outlier in how loot works in the game for no real reason, and game-wide likely creates more issues than it solves. For every guild that awards loot fairly, there are many more experiences of people getting screwed, either through a clique'ish guild that gives more gear to certain friends, or through insanely restrictive and insular rules around recruits (ie. new recruits can't get gear for 4 weeks or other bullshit out there).

    Quote Originally Posted by EodynTheDK View Post
    The more committed people should absolutely be rewarded with the loot.
    They will be... If they are more committed, they will be there for more kills, and get more "rolls" at personal loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarrant View Post
    Theres a reason why personal loot is already forced for solo players, dont fuck over the mythic raiders. I don't want to bring a trial in for the last boss on farm, he dies in the first 10 seconds of the fight and ends up getting a 985 piece of gear and the mount. That is actually retarded.
    Its not retarded - its just good luck for him or her. And if you are talking about mythic raiding, its unlikely that if someone dies 10 seconds in you are killing a boss that isn't already on regular farm, in which case, you probably have had plenty of chances to get the loot you want. If its hard content for your group, the guy dieing 10 seconds in probably means you're not getting the kill that pull

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    Because you totally would have downed that boss without the trial TOTALLY! Here's an idea....if you don't like the idea of someone NOT A CORE RAIDER getting loot then don't take any who isn't a CORE RAIDER on your raids.
    Genius idea! What do you propose we do when some players start quitting due to burnout from trials getting all the pieces they've been wanting forever over them and they realize that being in an organized group is no longer rewarding enough?
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Leodric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    I doubt you play at a level where a couple bits of gear make an actual difference, other than to a couple of elitist 5/11M players fake ego.
    Do you? If so you would know that every piece of gear helps a lot at mythic bosses who need a DPS check (Mythic Krosus for example). Some trinkets are huge boosts to your DPS/HPS/Tanking.

  13. #33
    So people always wanted the game to be more community driven.

    But people insist instead of congratulating a trial on some sweet loot they got and making them feel good, and feel better about the guild they just joined.

    They're gonna be salty a main raider didn't get a single digit % dps increase.

    Even though the raid still got that increase, as the trial is in the guild.

    Aight guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Do you? If so you would know that every piece of gear helps a lot at mythic bosses who need a DPS check (Mythic Krosus for example). Some trinkets are huge boosts to your DPS/HPS/Tanking.
    Well congratulations to the trial that just got it then, they should happily contribute to that with the trinket they got.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjer View Post
    I play in an organized guild that uses Master looter for mythic, and i have directly benefited from that. But I support this change.
    So you're telling me you support a change that rewards raw luck and not skill or loyalty? You prefer that some people just get lucky and get everything they could ever want the first week while others have done the same thing, better than them, for months, and get nothing?

    I bet you love Titanforging too, don'tcha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    So people always wanted the game to be more community driven.

    But people insist instead of congratulating a trial on some sweet loot they got and making them feel good, and feel better about the guild they just joined.

    They're gonna be salty a main raider didn't get a single digit % dps increase.

    Aight guys.
    If they're a trial and close to being a raider (like week 3 or 4), I'd definitely congratulate them. If it's their first night, then yes, I'd be pretty fucking salty about it, especially if they've never killed the boss that we've killed 8+ times before.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Genius idea! What do you propose we do when some players start quitting due to burnout from trials getting all the pieces they've been wanting forever over them and they realize that being in an organized group is no longer rewarding enough?
    ..... build a guild that doesn't have only 20 people for starters, so that you have talent you can sub in.

    also, anyone that leaves a mythic guild because they're not getting enough phat loot, is probably a cesspool guild. Most mythic raiders in good guilds want kills, not pixels.

  16. #36
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Why do you guys have trials if you're still trying to push the final boss? I don't fully understand how the mechanics work here. Do you like, bring them on for bosses you've got on farm and then kick them for the 'real' members at the final boss? If not, why don't you have full fledged members with you the whole time to maximize your chances of getting loot?

    You're using an old Master Looter way of thinking for the new Personal Loot world. You should be bringing your best with you as much as possible, until they have every piece of gear they need.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjer View Post
    ..... build a guild that doesn't have only 20 people for starters, so that you have talent you can sub in.

    also, anyone that leaves a mythic guild because they're not getting enough phat loot, is probably a cesspool guild. Most mythic raiders in good guilds want kills, not pixels.
    What happens when you don't have enough pixels to kill certain bosses and the bosses that drop the pixels you need simply don't drop the pieces because Personal Loot sucks assholes?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Why do you guys have trials if you're still trying to push the final boss? I don't fully understand how the mechanics work here. Do you like, bring them on for bosses you've got on farm and then kick them for the 'real' members at the final boss? If not, why don't you have full fledged members with you the whole time to maximize your chances of getting loot?

    You're using an old Master Looter way of thinking for the new Personal Loot world. You should be bringing your best with you as much as possible, until they have every piece of gear they need.
    Because people quit or people who used to be good get worse or don't understand a specific boss. We have plenty of solid raiders that simply don't understand how to do Argus after 200+ pulls.

    Ignoring Trials for a sec, just think about forced Personal for a moment. Let's say an Acrid Catalyst Injector (arguably the best in slot Ranged DPS trinket for nearly every caster) drops for me, and it's 960. I never got a 960 trinket before, so it just goes to me. Next week, I get a 965 one, OOPS CAN'T TRADE IT, GUESS I VENDOR THE 960 ONE. Next week a 970 drops, etc etc. I understand this is quite an outlier scenario but it's still something that can happen. It also doesn't even need to be the same specific piece of gear; I could get a 960 neck, then a 965 on the very next boss, but the stats are dogshit for me so I just vendor it anyways.

    As for trials, well, it just means more trials won't be given a fair chance in higher-progressed guilds, or they will be scorned if they get lucky and get a nice piece of gear. It just closes options for organized raiders and opens doors for toxic guild hoppers and other bad behavior for trials to do.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2018-04-27 at 07:33 PM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    So you're telling me you support a change that rewards raw luck and not skill or loyalty? You prefer that some people just get lucky and get everything they could ever want the first week while others have done the same thing, better than them, for months, and get nothing?

    I bet you love Titanforging too, don'tcha?
    Hate titanforging.

    And yes i support the change. Because over long periods, gear does even out. And even if it doesn't, the lucky ones will be able to pass gear to unlucky ones.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Oh yes, because raw RNG on whether you get loot or not, let alone it being a piece that's actually fucking useful for you (PLUS Titanforging RNG) is a lot more interesting than "down boss, see what drops, give to people".

    Seriously, you must be the luckiest fuck ever or just trolling at this point. I've maybe 5 times total throughout Legion gotten a piece that I've been eyeing forever via Personal Loot/Coins. 5 times in 5 raids total.
    Baseless assumption. I've yet to see any loot for myself higher than 970, still have non-optimal items, routinely get gold and AP for bonus rolls, and had to spend 18 seals on heroic kin'garoth for a trinket. I'm not trolling you either. You're just an angry petulant stooge who doesn't really like the game he's playing anymore and wants to rant because stuff is being changed. They're shifting towards a Diablo III style loot system, and no one who plays MMOs thinks that's a good thing. However, if you're really as butthurt as you appear to be over the issue let the developers know by canceling your sub and moving on. They're going to make the changes anyway, so why try to resist the tide by literally throwing shit into the water?

    Ape.

  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk MisterBigglez's Avatar
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    Too many guilds just don't understand the basics of loot priority. It's pretty easy and fair but many guilds get confused. I'll show you how it goes in terms of priority

    Main Spec > Off Spec > Transmog

    Raider > Trial

    Simple right, you see whos asking for it for main spec then see what rank those people have and determine who gets it from there. However, many guilds get it the other way round, they see whos raider first and then determine who gets it. Doesn't matter if the one trial voted main spec and the raiders put it off spec, raiders get the gear regardless. I've seen it happen a lot and I don't stick when I see it.

    All it takes is a smart council to sort gear out fairly, but lets be honest, many players are either not smart or just arseholes, so I get why blizz is going in this direction. I don't agree with it because once again, blizz is punishing the minority and it takes away the control of raid gear progression.

    Even now, you might have a full team, but you've got a couple of people who hold you back at times or can't keep up with the dps. Lets say you're progressing on Varimathras mythic and you have this one guy who never swaps to the adds, or one guy who just can't understand how you deal with the necrotic debuff and this holds your team back because of it, do you think that those people should be rewarded with gear because of a dice roll? I don't think so, but theres gonna be thousands of examples where this happens and its going to piss off your group.

    What if the opposite happens, you have this one player who never messes up, is willing to do bitch jobs, suggests good strategies etc, but doesn't get any gear because the random dice roll wasn't in his favour. Sorry, but thats bullshit.

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