CC bloat has rendered this game unplayable.

[Twen]

Something can't be "team centric" if you have dead weight because you cannot carry that dead weight.

People have bad games - that's a fact of life. People get tilted and keep playing.

You cannot carry these people in HotS.

(Comeback exp in HotS seems to be out of wack in my opinion).

That's exactly what makes it team-centric though, you need the whole team to win, rather than an individual hyper carry. (Technically it's still possible to carry a bit in HotS if your weakest link isn't absolutely abysmal, but that depends on the comps/situation/map, and definitely to a way lesser extent than in the item MOBAs in any case.)

But yes, sometimes you get people having bad games. I've managed to talk tilting players back into line on quite a few occasions though, and most of those resulted in a win or at least we put up a good fight. Sometimes there's nothing you can do and the match will just go to hell in a hand basket, it happens. Can't always win, nobody can. I still prefer team effort over individual carry promoting systems, even if it means that sometimes other people lose the game for me (or I for them). /shrug

I like the comeback exp because it makes turnarounds possible (among few others things like map objectives), you can never get complacent or afford too many mistakes even with a seemingly good lead, over-confidence can easily get punished.

[Stormcall]

It is so archaic and unnecessary that Blizzard themselves realized their game was lacking this archaic device so they added neutral health globes to try and simulate it in lane matchups.

That...doesn't remotely, in any way, shape, or form, come remotely cose to simulating it. Neutral health globes are as close to last hitting as Ozzy is to Garth Brooks. I mean, they're both game mechanics, just like Ozzy and Garth are both singers, but...that's pretty much where the similarities end.

- - - Updated - - -

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. I get it, you're a bad player.

Nah, I play fine, I just don't play boring games. Even if you're the best player, it's like being the best at folding laundry, or the best at washing dishes. Grats at being the best I guess, but it's still just being the best at some of the most tedious, boring things in existence.

[Twen]

That's the problem though.

You can't always get 4 friends online can you.

Hell - I can't even get 4 friends to play this godawful game.

Solo matchmaking means communist shared exp is horrendous.

Perhaps I could've worded that more clearly, I didn't mean you need to have a full premade, but that you need all of your team members to really work as a team for the win as opposed to relying on a hyper carry. Sure that's easier to achieve with a premade, but it's hardly necessary. Most of the time I play it's either solo or duo, sometimes get a third but more than that at the same time is pretty rare. Yet I'm still having fun.

Sounds like you aren't though, with this "godawful game" and its "horrendous" mechanics. Maybe it's just not the place for you, I will stay away from more traditional MOBAs on that same premise. There, everyone happy.

[Stormcall]

Yeah that's the reason why Dota 2 has 700-800 thousand players daily hey? With a 30mil+ prizepool for it's main tournament every year.

Justin Bieber had millions of fans. So did Taylor Swift. I guess they're better musicians than some virtuoso guitarist or jazz group playing small clubs?

[Twen]

SOLO QUEUE.

Reliance on random people who may be tilted, having a bad day, tired, hungover etc etc.

Shared anything can't work when you rely on random people.


Imagine if ammo was shared in CS:GO.

Why are we going in circles here... Yes, solo queue, which I just said I play a lot and my whole point was that premade of any size isn't needed (addition: I opted to do my ranked climbing in solo league so I could just jump in whenever without having to ask/wait for more people). Even if you have a duo group or more, but not a full 5-man, you'll still be relying on those random people because you need all 5 on the team to do their part, since you can't very effectively carry in HotS, as established. That's the thing you don't like about shared exp, you want the option to go super saiyan and basically solo the enemy team by yourself if need be. Meanwhile I'm glad HotS won't let you; I neither wish to carry the rest nor get carried myself. Me and 4 randoms have to make it work together as a team against 5 other randoms, and if we can't then we're going to lose, there will be no single superman to the rescue. Yes, that obviously means someone having a bad game for whatever reason may cause you to lose (and sometimes that guy will be on the other side causing them to lose). That's how it is with team games, if I was against other people affecting the outcome I wouldn't play those.

[Twen]

That's why I am saying HotS is only good for casual play.

In order for me to climb in MMR in Dota 2. I have to play above my current bracket. I literally have to play 1v9.

Then once I reach higher MMR brackets I get better players on my team, the quality of games increases.

That is just not possible in HotS. I imagine you climb in that game by sheer dumb luck. Roulette team mates.

Naturally there's some luck involved in what kind of team mates you get, and if they're just a little bad (salvageable) or totally worthless (lost). Still, you need to know what you're doing and do it well, your own contribution absolutely can make a difference (just not on such a large scale like in DotA). Then you must actively monitor the situation and use pings to try and prevent your team mates from making bad choices and get them to make good ones, and probably quickly talk to them about certain important things that need their attention. Assuming they listen to you, your team management can have a larger impact than your personal character play. If they don't listen to you and it evidently leads to bad results then they had it coming.

[Archpriest]

Im personally of the opinion that you can absolutely carry games in HotS but it's through communication more than skillfull play. Which means people who are good at carrying in DOTA or LoL might not be good at doing it in HotS and vice versa (not that communication is unimportant in those games mind you...).

I also find the idea of HotS being a "casual only" game weird. How casual or hardcore you play a game has nothing to do with the randomness of the game or what rank you are - it has something to do with the time you spend on it and how much you try to improve.

All in all I never quite understood the need to trashtalk other MOBAs. Having several distinctly different games in the same genre means more people get to enjoy some MOBA action... and that's a good thing.

...
On topic: CC can feel overwhelming at times but I think it's mostly a problem in quick match. If you have a draft you can build around it. That does not mean you should not give feedback about it though - Blizzard has at times made changes to reduce CC and if enough people say it's a problem they might do it again.

[Nerraw]

Mod warning: Things have been getting heated around here in the past day or two. That stops now. Passionate discussion is fine. Flaming, trolling, and what have you, is not.

[Twen]

Im personally of the opinion that you can absolutely carry games in HotS but it's through communication more than skillfull play. Which means people who are good at carrying in DOTA or LoL might not be good at doing it in HotS and vice versa (not that communication is unimportant in those games mind you...).

If we count team management as a form of carrying then this is indeed true. Though it still requires your team to actually listen, if they choose to ignore you then it's completely ineffective as opposed to individual hyper carry games.

[Stormcall]

It seems the worst thing about HotS for most people is that it doesn't allow you to whip out and furiously stroke your epeen while talking about how you singlehandedly win all the games(or at least pretend you do, in my experience, the people who brag the most about carrying games are usually the ones getting carried)

[Archpriest]

If we count team management as a form of carrying then this is indeed true. Though it still requires your team to actually listen, if they choose to ignore you then it's completely ineffective as opposed to individual hyper carry games.

You speak truth. Still, trying to guide headless chickens is usually more effective than letting them frolic across the map alone.

[therealstegblob]

All this thread has been is a bunch of people arguing about HotS being shit except none of us agree on exactly how shit it is.

[Twen]

All this thread has been is a bunch of people arguing about HotS being shit except none of us agree on exactly how shit it is.

That's not true though, several people have talked about reasons why they like HotS more than traditional MOBAs.

I for one do not play games that I think to be shit nor frequent their forums, never quite understood why anyone would.

[therealstegblob]

I for one do not play games that I think to be shit nor frequent their forums, never quite understood why anyone would.

The thought that people could play a game but have significant complaints about it is a pretty foreign concept, huh?

[Twen]

The thought that people could play a game but have significant complaints about it is a pretty foreign concept, huh?

Not at all, most games are hardly perfect and HotS is no exception. However, when people feel that a game is generally "unplayable", "shit", "godawful", "horrendous" to quote a few adjectives used here and basically "everything is terrible", that's quite different from having some complaints and sounds like they're just making themselves miserable rather than having fun playing it. Certainly people *can* still play even if it's no fun, but then the question is, why.

[therealstegblob]

Not at all, most games are hardly perfect and HotS is no exception. However, when people feel that a game is generally "unplayable", "shit", "godawful", "horrendous" to quote a few adjectives used here and basically "everything is terrible", that's quite different from having some complaints and sounds like they're just making themselves miserable rather than having fun playing it. Certainly people *can* still play even if it's no fun, but then the question is, why.

Because who cares? Why do you care so much if I play a game; even one as bad as HotS?

[Twen]

Because who cares? Why do you care so much if I play a game; even one as bad as HotS?

I don't care whether you personally do or not, I was just wondering in general why do people keep playing games they apparently don't find fun (this is not the only instance I've come across), I don't see the point.

Anyway, guess it's better to just call it here.