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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    You mean signalling to both sides that the battle was lost and the need for retreat is now real. The alliance know what the horn is for and can see legion airships bombarding horde area.
    That is not how an alliance works. It's not "i do whatever i want". It has to be a concerted effort. Unilateral retreat is not proper behavior. Only the behavior of cowards that don't really care what happens to their allies. They weren't the only ones in that battle.

    Like don't even try anymore. I am not willing to listen to more morality and honor bending for the sake of horde arguments.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    That is not how an alliance works. It's not "i do whatever i want". It has to be a concerted effort. Unilateral retreat is not proper behavior. Only the behavior of cowards that don't really care what happens to their allies. They weren't the only ones in that battle.

    Like don't even try anymore. I am not willing to listen to more morality and honor bending for the sake of horde arguments.
    Thing is the retreat routes and battlefield communication are things, which any organised military effort requires to be settled ahead of time. They have a bout as clear of a retreat path as the Horde, they clearly know what the horn means.

    This is not an argument of morality, but stupidity.(a very nuanced difference i know)

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Peebuddy View Post
    Didn't the Alliance shoot a TON of drowning Horde sailors in the Pandaren intro because they didn't want prisoners? That was kinda fucked up
    They were temporarily under Sha influence, but got over it.

    Whereas the Horde has committed most of its atrocities under no other influence than their own inherent brutality. Orcs especially have proven themselves to be capable of genocide and treachery both with and without demon blood. And the Forsaken... well, most of them don't have any humanity left within them.
    Last edited by Gahmuret; 2018-05-16 at 10:19 PM.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    Thing is the retreat routes and battlefield communication are things, which any organised military effort requires to be settled ahead of time. They have a bout as clear of a retreat path as the Horde, they clearly know what the horn means.

    This is not an argument of morality, but stupidity.(a very nuanced difference i know)
    Did you just call morality stupid? So, what? You think people should go around killing each other? Morality comes from social cooperation towards survival. Something that unilateral retreats are more certainly not. The Alliance forces clearly weren't prepared for such a retreat, wich means no such tactics were discussed.

    There is no way to spin that the horde was in the wrong for having retreated. They should have held position and warned the alliance they were gonna retreat before they did. The horn wasn't for the Alliance, the horn was for the horde forces to fall back. They said nothing to the alliance, except their ally ran on them.

    Therfore, they broke the truth by betraying their ally. Go on, try to spin some more like what i'm saying isn't exactly what happens in the real world. God i hate RP'ers.
    Last edited by Nemmar; 2018-05-17 at 07:53 AM.

  5. #225
    The Horde once killed and tea bagged the entire Alliance population of Stranglethorn Vale.
    Your income seldom exceeds your personal development.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2vrNIH9kI

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Did you just call morality stupid? So, what? You think people should go around killing each other? Morality comes from social cooperation towards survival. Something that unilateral retreats are more certainly not. The Alliance forces clearly weren't prepared for such a retreat, wich means no such tactics were discussed.

    There is no way to spin that the horde was in the wrong for having retreated. They should have held position and warned the alliance they were gonna retreat before they did. The horn wasn't for the Alliance, the horn was for the horde forces to fall back. They said nothing to the alliance, except their ally ran on them.

    Therfore, they broke the truth by betraying their ally. Go on, try to spin some more like what i'm saying isn't exactly what happens in the real world. God i hate RP'ers.
    No i said the argument is about aliance being the idiot brigade(again). Not morality.

    Aliance knew the meaning of the horn and Horde didn't exactly get a head start their frontline was breaking under the demon assalut. There are literally no excuses for the aliance not to retreat other than "we need a reason to complain"

    The aliance was sitting around like jackasses in time it took horde to walk over the entire length of the istalnd, board the ship and sail away a decent distance.

  7. #227
    Alliance degrading Night Elves to the role of pumpkin farmers and waifus is the worst War Crime.
    "To the ordinary, we are unknowable. Fallen, corrupted; rightly feared. You cannot understand our origins, our motives. The dawning realization, that we are not fallen... we are ascended!"

  8. #228
    hold on a sec, i'll get my pop corn.

    waiting for all those semi-knowledgeable fanbois to put on the "camp taurajo mix tape" on repeat.
    and then close their ears and go "lalalal" on everything blizzard has made the Horde do.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    yeah if only an alliance race didn't invade their homeworld, mark it for legion (even Archimonde was against wasting time on Dreanor, check 'rise of the horde'), not to mention as they admit cause the annihilation and extinction of infinity number of lifeforms in their pursuit of staying alive instead of doing what others actually did (lightforge draenei) and fight the legion
    10/10 for mental gymnastics.

    I can't even begin to call out the various other gaps in this grand fanfiction, but hey don't let me come in the middle and wreck that, I am just some alliance lover who hates the horde right
    Yes I play alliance. No I dont hate the Horde. Yes I believe there are bad people in both factions. Yes, in the end this is a business and blizzard wont let one faction win over the other completely.

  10. #230
    Kul'Tiras drove the Drust to extinction.

    The Dwarfs and Gnomes destroyed the Frostmaine Empire, took their lands, and to this day continue their genocidal campaign against them.

    King Llane got his father killed by starting a war with the Gurobashi because he wanted to destroy them and his father refused to go to war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    They were temporarily under Sha influence, but got over it.

    Whereas the Horde has committed most of its atrocities under no other influence than their own inherent brutality. Orcs especially have proven themselves to be capable of genocide and treachery both with and without demon blood. And the Forsaken... well, most of them don't have any humanity left within them.
    Only one was the rest did so willingly.

  11. #231
    Not a war crime per say, but the origin of Voss is sad and shows how the Alliance can be prejudice.

  12. #232
    Pit Lord Nathreim's Avatar
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    Everything Genn did after the Second War comes close.

    Wanting to genocide the Orcs in the camp because they were too expensive.

    Refusing to help Lordaeron when the Scourge attacked Capital City.

    Abandoning half his people on the other side of the wall (because it was cheaper to build there than around everything).

    Letting the Scourge kill all the refugees at the foot of the wall when they showed up.

  13. #233
    Pandaren Monk
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    Downplaying the role of a few races into near oblivion, just to highlight the other same few regulars in nearly every god damn conflict.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    yeah that was a shitcon, back then - at least at the release time of rise of the horde - they were planning to only undo titans creation, hence why archimonde was strongly against any attack on Dreanor or even waste any resource on it
    the problem with current lore is that how can Rise of Horde be canon and it contradicts many things, so we keep shitting on older lore just for the sake of it? not all older lore is bad (in fact most of it is superior to whatever mess we have now), at least back then the rule of 'kool' and fuck lore for mmo format wasn't that strong yet

    I admit i don't like current lore and it will take time to swallow it, but i'm VERY happy with chronicles and i hope that is final retcon to lore and no more changes and shitting on ur own established lore sometimes for just zero reason
    oh im with you friend their retcons are godawful and the new lore especially bfa is a joke. but in another few years the lore will be such a mess that we might even look back on bfa as the good old days.

  15. #235
    Titan FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    What are the laws of War crime in the Warcraft universe exactly? :P
    None were confirmed until the book war crimes, where the ones listed were the mass murder of civilians, and i think the irreversible destruction of land? I think those are the only two were confirmed war crimes.

  16. #236
    Biggest war crime of the alliance was letting those void elves join their ranks.

    Horde has never done any war crime, people claim that Theramore was a war crime but seriously, it was necessary. The conflict between alliance and horde was inevitable and Theramore sent forces into southern Barrens to support the night elf forces... Typical alliance hypocrite behaviour "we r gud we no do bad things!" yeah, sure.
    People of Theramore and mostly Jaina deserved the bombing of Theramore. Jaina claimed the whole time she's peaceful towards the horde, but nope, when big daddy Varian arrives she completely forgot about her promises towards Thrall.

    Jaina should be happy about the bombing instead of marching horde forces who would ravage the city and slaughter its people. For the Horde. Death to the alliance.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Peebuddy View Post
    Didn't the Alliance shoot a TON of drowning Horde sailors in the Pandaren intro because they didn't want prisoners? That was kinda fucked up
    Yeah I remember doing that again a few weeks ago. That was really sick and I felt bad playing as Alliance until Papa Shadopan jumps in to save the day.

  18. #238
    Scarab Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    10/10 for mental gymnastics.

    I can't even begin to call out the various other gaps in this grand fanfiction, but hey don't let me come in the middle and wreck that, I am just some alliance lover who hates the horde right
    so answer that one, also u can easily answer strongly by saying in most recent lore edition (legion) they changed the BL goal from undo titan creation to wiping out all life forms
    that is most recent edition right? did chronicles change that again or something?
    but for rise of horde time at least, draenei were portrayed as ignorant selfish who have no problem to cause annihilation of anyone and everyone to stay alive, and yet claim they are 'selfless' and believe in the 'light' ideas (also with current Light ideas in wow, that actually fit... seriously fuck all those changes, i hope it is final and get stable now)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peebuddy View Post
    Didn't the Alliance shoot a TON of drowning Horde sailors in the Pandaren intro because they didn't want prisoners? That was kinda fucked up
    they also say 'no witness' during goblins starting area, in fact because alliance love to genocide any non alliance in their 'righteous glory' is the reason why 4 out of 6 horde main races joined the horde in first place
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

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