Titanforging Poll.

[Deleted]

Just found the armory: https://raider.io/characters/eu/ravencrest/Memedruid.

The arcano is fake, he has a 915.

nice catch

[Osmeric]

And i always thought major nerfs would be there for that exact reason

TF from the previous tier is still with you going into the new tier. It's not a nerf over time to the new tier; it's there from day 1. And Blizzard tunes the new tier under the assumption the TF is there. They cannot ignore it.

[Deleted]

TF from the previous tier is still with you going into the new tier. It's not a nerf over time to the new tier; it's there from day 1. And Blizzard tunes the new tier under the assumption the TF is there. They cannot ignore it.

The guilds that kill the bosses first swap out close to all pieces other than sets/trinkets in some cases within the first week due to splits anyway so still: no.
Baseline TF from ToS = Heroic Antorus -> most pieces get swapped in said situation

So no,content is not tuned around titanforged just because you have some titanforged items whilst killing a boss.
If argus would've been tuned around tf guilds wouldnt have been able to kill argus with 960 ilvl. (keep in mind legendaries and artifact add 3-5 ilvl overall so 960 average is not tf heavy at all and "old" tf gear is below base mythic level too so thats no argument to claim raids are tuned around titanforging.)

But as you ignore every single fact proven by numbers anyway this is my last response.

[Osmeric]

The guilds that kill the bosses first swap out close to all pieces other than sets/trinkets in some cases within the first week due to splits anyway so still: no.
Baseline TF from ToS = Heroic Antorus -> most pieces get swapped in said situation

So no,content is not tuned around titanforged just because you have some titanforged items whilst killing a boss.
If argus would've been tuned around tf guilds wouldnt have been able to kill argus with 960 ilvl. (keep in mind legendaries and artifact add 3-5 ilvl overall so 960 average is not tf heavy at all and "old" tf gear is below base mythic level too so thats no argument to claim raids are tuned around titanforging.)

But as you ignore every single fact proven by numbers anyway this is my last response.

You continue to be obviously wrong, so I'm not surprised you're slinking off in shame. Even you must realize the absurd hole you've dug for yourself here.

Split runs? The average wow player does not do split runs. The average wow mythic raider does not do split runs. I'm not talking about the very upper guilds. Blizzard cannot tune content just for them. The tuning of Mythic (and Heroic, and Normal) are for the core of the audience they are targeted at, which is some percentage of the wow player population. And this tuning process cannot be ignoring the gearing mechanisms these players use, which includes titanforged gear. I've explained this before, but you continue to be resistant to clue (as you were yet again in that quote of yours above, where you argue that because SOME guilds can down Argus without TF, TF was not a consideration in tuning. This is a bullshit inference.)

I'm not ignoring your "facts", I'm recognizing them for the non sequiturs they are. If I don't agree with the garbage conclusions produced by your defective thought processes it's not because *I* did anything wrong.

[Deleted]

You continue to be obviously wrong, so I'm not surprised you're slinking off in shame. Even you must realize the absurd hole you've dug for yourself here.

Split runs? The average wow player does not do split runs. The average wow mythic raider does not do split runs. I'm not talking about the very upper guilds. Blizzard cannot tune content just for them. The tuning of Mythic (and Heroic, and Normal) are for the core of the audience they are targeted at, which is some percentage of the wow player population. And this tuning process cannot be ignoring the gearing mechanisms these players use, which includes titanforged gear. I've explained this before, but you continue to be resistant to clue (as you were yet again in that quote of yours above, where you argue that because SOME guilds can down Argus without TF, TF was not a consideration in tuning. This is a bullshit inference.)

I'm not ignoring your "facts", I'm recognizing them for the non sequiturs they are. If I don't agree with the garbage conclusions produced by your defective thought processes it's not because *I* did anything wrong.

You still dont understand that saying a boss is tuned for xxx means that this is the lowest itemlevel making it possible to kill so theres no point to argue. (You dont say a boss is tuned around 975 if its easy to kill at <965, just like youre not gonna kill a boss actually tuned around 975 with a raid of 965 ilvl.)

I can put lfr raiders infront of argus mythic and claim the boss is clearly overtuned as that group would need 1050+ itemlevel to kill the boss - does this make sense? No.

It was tuned around 960ish even before nerfs - just because worse guilds need more gear does not mean the boss was tuned for 970++ right from the get go.

Then again you dont even understand that i only pointed out splitruns in combination with topguilds to highlight how old TF is close to irrelevant besides sets and never mentioned anywhere that the average mythicraider does them so even this answer in itself is already a complete waste of time.

[Draenox]

I feel the system in place in MoP and WoD was perfectly fine, small chance to get a warforged item that was 6 ilvls higher, not a major upgrade but still one that felt good. TF is a roulette that makes every item you get that doesnt roll a high TF feel like trash

[ID811717]

We can assess the claim that raiding is tuned with titanfoging in mind by comparing what average raid ilvl top guilds had when they killed the last raid bossed (in Legion vs. in past expansions). I'll use wowprogress and pick arbitrary guilds that finished in top 2 of 20-man/25-man race.

- Legion
Tier 21: Method killed Argus with ilvl 960.17. The raid drops ilvl 960 (last boss 970).
Tier 20: Method killed KJ with ilvl 933.74. The raid drops ilvl 930 (last boss 940).
Tier 19: Method killed Gul'Dan with ilvl 905.24. The raid drops ilvl 900-905 (last boss 910).

- WoD
Tier 18: Paragon killed Archimonde with ilvl 720.37. The raid drops 720-730 (last boss 735), all of that can be upgraded +10 ilvls.
Tier 17: Paragon killed Blackhand with ilvl 680.07. The raid drops ilvl 700.

- MoP
Tier 16: Method killed Garrosh with ilvl 563.64. The raid drops ilvl 566, all of that can be upgraded +16 ilvls.
Tier 15: Method killed Ra-den with ilvl 530.07. The raid drops ilvl 535 (last boss 541), all of that can be upgraded +8 ilvls.

Can we deduce anything from this?
How many slots of gear could the top guild upgrade in the time before the first kills happened? If there was not enough time to upgrade more than a couple of pieces, then the picture is roughly the same across the 3 expansions (Blackhand being an exception).

[Azelas]

No cap, didn't get a single good titanforge this expansion so next expansion must be my time :P

I wish I could give you my alt's. I swear every time I did some random Nighthold (at the time when it was relevant) on some alt I just wanted to fuck around with I got a titanforged to a billion ilvl and I was like !??!?!?

It didnt even felt good it just frustrated me it was on a fucking alt and not on my main who I was raiding mythic with.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I feel the system in place in MoP and WoD was perfectly fine, small chance to get a warforged item that was 6 ilvls higher, not a major upgrade but still one that felt good. TF is a roulette that makes every item you get that doesnt roll a high TF feel like trash

I agree. Those systems let you get a nice little bonus for getting lucky. But it wasnt like just because you got that little bit of extra luck you are now suddenly the most powerful being in your group. Thus making normal gear just feel like a baseline weakness.