Destruction in BfA - feedback

[Deleted]

Real talk though...

Did anyone care about Fel Flame? Did anyone actually enjoy the Life Tap play-style? Shadowburn was fun in MOP - yes it can be hard to balance but Destro inherently, via Havoc, arises the same concern... I think people overall just want something meaningful to do while moving (doesn't matter what class/spec).

I know I never cared for Fel Flame personally, nor did I enjoy Life Tapping in any warlock spec - it just became habit. Rifts were fun to some degree but I was personally 50/50 with them.

Whenever I think of Destro and movement, I can't help but think of the KJC iteration allowing Incinerate to be castable while moving (casting CB is obviously too strong and it is still our #1 damage source). I'd imagine it would be easier to balance a simple filler ability when the spec itself necessitates short and calculated periods of burst to be effective.

But, that's just me

Yes. My post history, if you go far back enough, is probably filled with bitching about Fel Flame. They've removed other things that I care about a lot more since then, but the removal of Fel Flame was nonsensical and Celestalons defense of it was infuriating. I do not like having nothing to press while moving, I don't care if it hits in the double digits, I just want to feel like I'm still fighting the boss.

Lifetap and DOT application for affliction is alright, but often feels lame when you're hitting the point where you don't need to tap anymore or dot refreshes have already been maxed out (which is a serious concern with SL is a talent and perma corruption can be optimal on council fights+), Fel Flame was just a pitiful amount of damage that kept you playing.

It gave you something to do while moving and could be tuned so low that the class didn't become "good" on heavy movement.
It opened up avenues for tier bonuses / talents that could be interesting.
It gave you an instant DD ability to poke down totems / kill old mobs if doing outdated content.
All while causing zero negative gameplay impacts (well, at least after the dot extension was removed, but even that would be fine post-snapshotting) because it was such a simple ability.

Life Tap I always defend - it's not been in the best state in a lot of years, but removing abilities is worrisome to me. Abilities that hang around have the potential to be made interesting, whether it be by tier bonuses, talents, unique scenarios like "oh I need to drop my health" via healer mage tower / nightbane or just tweaks in class design. It's hard to imagine them likely to be re-added to make one of the things I mentioned possible AFTER they were removed though. I'd rather have an unimpactful ability hanging around with the potential for it to be made interesting rather than it being axed and cutting out that choice entirely.

SB and Havoc I think should be strong, tired of the attempts to cut back on it's strength and seeing other classes performing as well if not better in destructions niche.
No one complains when warriors shine in the execute phase, I think classes should be able to shine in their niches provided it's not so obnoxious that it makes class stacking mandatory. I realise that's a hard metric to hit, but I'd hope that if every class has it's niche and raids aren't completely lopsided like TOS, then you'd want to maintain a balanced roster. Output isn't anywhere near as big a deal to me as how the class plays though.

KJC should stay dead, it was dreadful. Not sure why you think balancing filler when it has ember generation, talents like FnB and NEEDS to hit hard enough to make the single target rotation work would be easier than balancing an exclusively movement related ability that had no other strings attached.

[bio347]

I've noticed that casting Havoc on something that is out of combat no longer engages combat. That's neat.

[pappaslop]

KJC should stay dead, it was dreadful. Not sure why you think balancing filler when it has ember generation, talents like FnB and NEEDS to hit hard enough to make the single target rotation work would be easier than balancing an exclusively movement related ability that had no other strings attached.

I hear you, it's just where my mind goes... I wouldn't say it was dreadful, but to each their own.

I definitely will not claim to think I know what is easier to balance (x, y or z) - that is not my realm of expertise. I am simply saying that I am not a fan of having a movement specific ability JUST for the sake of feeling like you have something to do while you move even if it is shit. There is nothing wrong with movement if a spec itself can offset it - good players plan around/prepare for it because most of the time, it is predictable.

[Schirmy]

Yes. My post history, if you go far back enough, is probably filled with bitching about Fel Flame. They've removed other things that I care about a lot more since then, but the removal of Fel Flame was nonsensical and Celestalons defense of it was infuriating. I do not like having nothing to press while moving, I don't care if it hits in the double digits, I just want to feel like I'm still fighting the boss.

Lifetap and DOT application for affliction is alright, but often feels lame when you're hitting the point where you don't need to tap anymore or dot refreshes have already been maxed out (which is a serious concern with SL is a talent and perma corruption can be optimal on council fights+), Fel Flame was just a pitiful amount of damage that kept you playing.

It gave you something to do while moving and could be tuned so low that the class didn't become "good" on heavy movement.
It opened up avenues for tier bonuses / talents that could be interesting.
It gave you an instant DD ability to poke down totems / kill old mobs if doing outdated content.
All while causing zero negative gameplay impacts (well, at least after the dot extension was removed, but even that would be fine post-snapshotting) because it was such a simple ability.

Life Tap I always defend - it's not been in the best state in a lot of years, but removing abilities is worrisome to me. Abilities that hang around have the potential to be made interesting, whether it be by tier bonuses, talents, unique scenarios like "oh I need to drop my health" via healer mage tower / nightbane or just tweaks in class design. It's hard to imagine them likely to be re-added to make one of the things I mentioned possible AFTER they were removed though. I'd rather have an unimpactful ability hanging around with the potential for it to be made interesting rather than it being axed and cutting out that choice entirely.

SB and Havoc I think should be strong, tired of the attempts to cut back on it's strength and seeing other classes performing as well if not better in destructions niche.
No one complains when warriors shine in the execute phase, I think classes should be able to shine in their niches provided it's not so obnoxious that it makes class stacking mandatory. I realise that's a hard metric to hit, but I'd hope that if every class has it's niche and raids aren't completely lopsided like TOS, then you'd want to maintain a balanced roster. Output isn't anywhere near as big a deal to me as how the class plays though.

KJC should stay dead, it was dreadful. Not sure why you think balancing filler when it has ember generation, talents like FnB and NEEDS to hit hard enough to make the single target rotation work would be easier than balancing an exclusively movement related ability that had no other strings attached.

Did we just become best friends? Very rarely do I agree with every single notion...but you're spot on. You've said everything I would have said already. Fel Flaming something into execute range and then Shadowburn'ing was so satisfying. I remember the first mythic raid after WoD pre-patch just feeling like I lost an integral part to my class. Thematically it fit the class and aesthetically was pleasing with the fel fire green.

Honestly, KJC was so fucking stupid for reasons I can't elucidate on in words. Nothing about it was fun to me. When it reduced movement speed I found it to be a burden more than anything.

[Werst]

I'd almost think inferno needs something like 50% chance to apply immolate on striking or a more regulated that on 2nd hit it applies immolate. That would be a "takes money to make money" approach to sustained aoe that is clearly different in flavor from other options. The spec is still a cluster of mobility issues but its back to nuking which is at least a start. My position hasn't changed on what should be instant or castable on the move. Feels like there is too much worry against what destro "might" do while other specs run around doing worse. Roaring blaze still feels weak even synergized with flashover. Maybe a 3rd charge of conflag here instead or some "conflag recharges 50% faster while running" or something?