1. #2061
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    I know they aren't the same. The shaving knife was an example of no need for clippers to create short haircuts. Just to show what a baloney comes out of people's mouth just to hate on a not yet released TV series.
    I mean people criticize things that were never written by Tolkien/contradict the lore. Elves were never in text noted having short hair, Tolkien might never have said "Elves don't/never have short hair", but every description of them was long flowing hair.

    It is just one of MANY place's where they (Patrick McKay and JD Payne) took silence as consent to do whatever they wanted instead of what was faithful to Tolkien. I find it funny how they say Tolkien is timeless, but they still feel the need to make A LOT of changes so it is more "modern".
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  2. #2062
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    A buzzcut on a Tolkienian elf does look incongruous and makes the character look like a contemporary insert. IRC Tolkien never stated that all elves have long hair, but I don't believe he ever described a short-haired elf either. It's not just the buzzcut. Elrond's got some kind of 1980s men's catalogue model thing going on, and Finrod just looks like an ordinary bloke. Perhaps they want to subvert the fantasy trope of elves having an ethereal look about them, which is fine, but probably best done in a new universe where it makes sense.
    Personally I don't care too much if elves have short hair, I just don't see the shaved down look to be realistic for characters in general who travel a lot. It's not like you'd have a personal barber on your travels anyway. Anyone I know who has that kind of hairstyle gets a haircut every few weeks, pretty much impossible if you are moving around a lot. But the long hair is a style that defines the elves of Middle Earth, shorter hair is more a thing of men and I guess Hobbits. Even dwarves have pretty long hair as well.

  3. #2063
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    Rings of Power is just looking more and more like Wheel of Time but with a way higher budget. In fact maybe that's why the end of season one looked so cheap and badly produced did Amazon take all of the funding and put it into their Rings of Power show? lol

    Although I give wheel of Time some credit, it at least looked interesting from the trailers. I can only hope that its a reverse effect with Rings of Power like the marketing team is just doing a bad job and the show is actually pretty good. Its a hope but its all I got left. :P
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  4. #2064
    the southpark episode where cartman glues pubes onto his face then murders scott tenormans parents and feeds them to scott in a chili cookoff is the best.

  5. #2065
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    Short hair or even bald elf is fine, but the buzzcut is weird as f and look totally out of place with the scenario.

  6. #2066
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Personally I don't care too much if elves have short hair, I just don't see the shaved down look to be realistic for characters in general who travel a lot. It's not like you'd have a personal barber on your travels anyway. Anyone I know who has that kind of hairstyle gets a haircut every few weeks, pretty much impossible if you are moving around a lot. But the long hair is a style that defines the elves of Middle Earth, shorter hair is more a thing of men and I guess Hobbits. Even dwarves have pretty long hair as well.
    I think they actually missed an opportunity to show of an elf with "ethnic" long hair. Which would of been much cooler looking.

    But at the end of the day, if the worst thing about this series is a haircut then we are all extremely lucky.

    Last edited by Khaza-R; 2022-07-31 at 08:25 PM.

  7. #2067
    These shows always immediately have to reach for the stars. Tolkien's origin stories are biblical but that doesn't mean a story set in Middle Earth has to be. If Amazon had dialed the story back and created something set in between the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, something with dwarves, humans and orcs, maybe something shortly after the fall of Moria. They would still get their Game of Thrones like political subterfuge, but they wouldn't have to chew through these grandiose epic sagas that they'll eventually end up struggling with.

  8. #2068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I think they actually missed an opportunity to show of an elf with "ethnic" long hair. Which would of been much cooler looking.


    Think they have them in Dragon Age actually. A franchise no one is complaining about elves of colour. With some dark skinned elves being featured all the way back in Origins albeit without the ethnic hair back then. I think that only started since Inquisition and in the comics. Even Shale was an allegory for a trans character although they have since added an actual trans character in Dragon Age since then, who is a good character actually. :P

    Here's the key if you start your fantasy world with PoC and diversity no one will bat an eye, but if you incorporate them into a franchise where they were none before people will point it out. Its why WoW got a bit of blowback about dark skinned elves despite the fact never having them before, yet Dragon Age and D&D get no or little blowback.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-07-31 at 09:14 PM.
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  9. #2069
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    These shows always immediately have to reach for the stars. Tolkien's origin stories are biblical but that doesn't mean a story set in Middle Earth has to be. If Amazon had dialed the story back and created something set in between the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, something with dwarves, humans and orcs, maybe something shortly after the fall of Moria. They would still get their Game of Thrones like political subterfuge, but they wouldn't have to chew through these grandiose epic sagas that they'll eventually end up struggling with.
    They don't have the rights to that period of Tolkein's histories, iirc.

  10. #2070
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Personally I don't care too much if elves have short hair, I just don't see the shaved down look to be realistic for characters in general who travel a lot. It's not like you'd have a personal barber on your travels anyway. Anyone I know who has that kind of hairstyle gets a haircut every few weeks, pretty much impossible if you are moving around a lot. But the long hair is a style that defines the elves of Middle Earth, shorter hair is more a thing of men and I guess Hobbits. Even dwarves have pretty long hair as well.
    True… but a traveler tends to not have meticulous braiding or immaculately combed hair either. Maybe they just put a lot more time into grooming than mere mortals.

  11. #2071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I don't care about the feasibility of buzzcuts in a fantasy universe myself, but I do find it a bit at odds with said universe. I associate Tolkien elves with long, flowing hairstyles, not something you usually find on modern military personnel.

    It's the same with the armor. Some of it is totally fine or even good, but then you get the bit that just sticks out as odd or bad looking. So the overall aesthetic doesn't win me over less due to being just trash, and more due to its inconsistency.
    It stops being inconsistent when you think that the show is set a few thousand years before The Lord of the Rings. The best way to show the passing of time, especially when a race of immortals is involved, is to make costumes, hairstyles and architecture look different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    A buzzcut on a Tolkienian elf does look incongruous and makes the character look like a contemporary insert. IRC Tolkien never stated that all elves have long hair, but I don't believe he ever described a short-haired elf either. It's not just the buzzcut. Elrond's got some kind of 1980s men's catalogue model thing going on, and Finrod just looks like an ordinary bloke. Perhaps they want to subvert the fantasy trope of elves having an ethereal look about them, which is fine, but probably best done in a new universe where it makes sense.
    The "ethereal look" about Elves does not really come from Tolkien, but from the readers. Personally, when I was reading LotR, I never got that impression. Yes, the Elves were wiser than Men, but they also seemed simple people. Samwise outright says so when he's talking about Rivendell. Some Elves are like great Lords, and other are as playful as children. When Bilbo reads his poem, you don't get the impression that his mocking critic is flying two feet above the ground. Gildor advises Frodo and is very down to earth. That's why I'm not too fond of Jackson's depiction of the Elves. And when you read the Silmarillion, well, it's simply impossible to get that "ethereal look". They are quite a different people in the First and Second Ages. In these times, they are like young adults or mature adults in their forties, full of fire and ambition. In the Third Age, they are all like a bunch of elderly people preparing to die. The time for new projects is over, and they stagnate. The Elves produced nothing new in Middle Earth during the three thousand years that the Third Age lasted. That "old age" makes them look a little more spiritual.
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  12. #2072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I think they actually missed an opportunity to show of an elf with "ethnic" long hair. Which would of been much cooler looking.

    But at the end of the day, if the worst thing about this series is a haircut then we are all extremely lucky.

    True, that would have been a better idea, personally. You'd think with a 30+ million per episode budget, everything wouldn't look so blatantly cheap. Whether it be costumes, weapons or set pieces, it all looks pretty cheaply done.

  13. #2073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    It stops being inconsistent when you think that the show is set a few thousand years before The Lord of the Rings. The best way to show the passing of time, especially when a race of immortals is involved, is to make costumes, hairstyles and architecture look different.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The "ethereal look" about Elves does not really come from Tolkien, but from the readers. Personally, when I was reading LotR, I never got that impression. Yes, the Elves were wiser than Men, but they also seemed simple people. Samwise outright says so when he's talking about Rivendell. Some Elves are like great Lords, and other are as playful as children. When Bilbo reads his poem, you don't get the impression that his mocking critic is flying two feet above the ground. Gildor advises Frodo and is very down to earth. That's why I'm not too fond of Jackson's depiction of the Elves. And when you read the Silmarillion, well, it's simply impossible to get that "ethereal look". They are quite a different people in the First and Second Ages. In these times, they are like young adults or mature adults in their forties, full of fire and ambition. In the Third Age, they are all like a bunch of elderly people preparing to die. The time for new projects is over, and they stagnate. The Elves produced nothing new in Middle Earth during the three thousand years that the Third Age lasted. That "old age" makes them look a little more spiritual.
    Yes and no answer here. While yes it does come from the reader but its also rooted in its origin. Elves along with other fae creatures are based in western and northern European folklore which were causation based on their origin at the time. The same way African, Indian, Asian folklore are based within that state of origin of that time and place. Of course over time other cultures have adopted other folk lore and applied it to their own, over time stories grow and spread far and wide and come with their own interpretations. But folklore tends to be rooted within its own ancient culture and reflect that time and place and so thats how people will remain to perceive it. So technically yes it is the readers interpretation but its because of its origin that makes it so.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-07-31 at 10:46 PM.
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  14. #2074
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Yes and no answer here. While yes it does come from the reader but its also rooted in its origin. Elves along with other fae creatures are based in western and northern European folklore which were causation based on their origin at the time. The same way African, Indian, Asian folklore are based within that state of origin of that time and place. Of course over time other cultures have adopted other folk lore and applied it to their own, over time stories grow and spread far and wide and come with their own interpretations. But folklore tends to be rooted within its own ancient culture and reflect that time and place and so thats how people will remain to perceive it. So technically yes it is the readers interpretation but its because of its origin that makes it so,.
    True, but those roots are also coming from the readers, not Tolkien. He wrote that he regretted calling the Eldar "Elves", because at his time, the word was used for diminutive, whimsical fairy creatures. That's why we depict them with pointy ears. Nowhere in Tolkien's work are the Eldar described with pointy ears. Originally, the Noldor were called Gnomes. Imagine if he kept the name... Now, the Eldar were inspired in part by the "Alfr" of the Norse Eddas, but not that much. And I didn't know anything about those when I first read the Hobbit. So nothing was telling me the Elves were supposed to be some kind of demigods living in the topmost level of the World Tree (which I also knew nothing about). And when you read about a couple of Elven guards getting piss drunk, it's hard to see Elves as ethereal creatures...
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  15. #2075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Think they have them in Dragon Age actually. A franchise no one is complaining about elves of colour. With some dark skinned elves being featured all the way back in Origins albeit without the ethnic hair back then. I think that only started since Inquisition and in the comics. Even Shale was an allegory for a trans character although they have since added an actual trans character in Dragon Age since then, who is a good character actually. :P

    Here's the key if you start your fantasy world with PoC and diversity no one will bat an eye, but if you incorporate them into a franchise where they were none before people will point it out. Its why WoW got a bit of blowback about dark skinned elves despite the fact never having them before, yet Dragon Age and D&D get no or little blowback.
    Dragon age is a kinda horrible example of people not complaining dragon age 2 got a bunch of complaints about the gay characters so did inquisition about that the trans character and sera, even just the announcement of a 4th game a couple years back had people complaining about them making it “political”.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #2076
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    That's why we depict them with pointy ears. Nowhere in Tolkien's work are the Eldar described with pointy ears.
    huh. Given how ubiquitous the depiction is, I guess I just always assumed that he described them that way at some point.

  17. #2077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Dragon age is a kinda horrible example of people not complaining dragon age 2 got a bunch of complaints about the gay characters so did inquisition about that the trans character and sera, even just the announcement of a 4th game a couple years back had people complaining about them making it “political”.
    I must have missed the arguments then. Also what were people mad about Sera for, she was great.
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  18. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I must have missed the arguments then. Also what were people mad about Sera for, she was great.
    half remembering this, But I believe sera had two common complains one being that she was female romance only and another being that she (and all other females) were ugly and purposely made that way because of SJW's.

    Safe to say you were better off missing them at the time.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #2079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    half remembering this, But I believe sera had two common complains one being that she was female romance only and another being that she (and all other females) were ugly and purposely made that way because of SJW's.

    Safe to say you were better off missing them at the time.
    ahh well i can't complain my love interest was Dorian :P

    I liked the 'not everyone is bi' approach that DA:I had... but oh well. :P
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  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    They don't have the rights to that period of Tolkein's histories, iirc.
    So I heard yeah. They got the period the Tolkien estate carries the least about.

    Still, even in that period there's orcs and dwarves and all kinds of reasons to simply start small and intimate. It's so much easier to scale up than it is to scale down.

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