Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[vizzle]

It does seem like that for a lot of people.

For those who already decided it sucks, if people generally like it it'll be because they're the brainwashed slaves of Bezos who have no taste at all, and if it's not generally liked it'll be their vindication that go woke go broke.

For those who already decided it's good, if people like it then it's proof everything about it is good with no exception, if they don't like it it's proof that we're all a bunch of racists.

Sounds like the only winners are people who don't even bother watching it at all. Happy to be in that camp.

[Orby]

I don't think the side 2 example you gave is a reasonable example. I don't think the side 2 example you gave even exists.

Side 2 are the people that are waiting for the show to be out before making up their minds. Side 1 are the people that have already decided it's shit. Some of those people on Side 1 are calling it shit for bigoted reasons. calling those people out is not the same thing as "defending" the show.

Maybe it doesn't for this show. I am not on social media anymore and haven't been since 2019. My fragile mental health couldn't handle it anymore. and already have to deal with my crippling anxiety :P

But this side 2 did exist for Ghostbusters (2016) and the Last Jedi. Ghostbusters especially, people were shit on for not wanting to watch the movie (myself included, cos I just wasnt interested in a reboot), and quoted that if you didn't go see the movie you are sexist. So maybe that audience doesn't exist for RoP so I may be wrong, I don't know what the general consensus on what the overall RoP opinion is. But seeing as I am getting flooded with whinging man children about the show crying about the usual stuff they cry about, I just assume there's the other side. If I am wrong then I take that back.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Maybe it doesn't for this show. I am not on social media anymore and haven't been since 2019. My fragile mental health couldn't handle it anymore. and already have to deal with my crippling anxiety :P

But this side 2 did exist for Ghostbusters (2016) and the Last Jedi. Ghostbusters especially, people were shit on for not wanting to watch the movie (myself included, cos I just wasnt interested in a reboot), and quoted that if you didn't go see the movie you are sexist. So maybe that audience doesn't exist for RoP so I may be wrong, I don't know what the general consensus on what the overall RoP opinion is. But seeing as I am getting flooded with whinging man children about the show crying about the usual stuff they cry about, I just assume there's the other side. If I am wrong then I take that back.

The only people that got shit on for not wanting to see Ghostbusters were people that were making the same "shitty woke casting" comments on it that they are making here. Plenty of people were able to say "I have no interest in seeing that movie" without getting shit on...including myself. I still haven't seen the movie, I probably never will... but it wasn't because I was offended they had four women instead of 4 men. I just didn't think it looked likee it would be a very good movie. I don't think it would have been a better movie if the original ghostbusters returned.

But that's not relevant here anyway.

This thread is about Rings of Power and seriously, no one is "defending" the show itself...because none of us have actually seen it. People are getting called out on their gatekeeping and bigotry...but, again, that's not the same thing as defending the show. The show could suck a donkey's asshole through a garden hose and I would still call out people that are shitting on the show because of it being "woke".

[Orby]

The only people that got shit on for not wanting to see Ghostbusters were people that were making the same "shitty woke casting" comments on it that they are making here. Plenty of people were able to say "I have no interest in seeing that movie" without getting shit on...including myself. I still haven't seen the movie, I probably never will... but it wasn't because I was offended they had four women instead of 4 men. I just didn't think it looked likee it would be a very good movie. I don't think it would have been a better movie if the original ghostbusters returned.

But that's not relevant here anyway.

This thread is about Rings of Power and seriously, no one is "defending" the show itself...because none of us have actually seen it. People are getting called out on their gatekeeping and bigotry...but, again, that's not the same thing as defending the show. The show could suck a donkey's asshole through a garden hose and I would still call out people that are shitting on the show because of it being "woke".

I literally got called sexist because my only excuse was that it was a reboot and I wasnt going to watch it. and to this day have no opinion on it because I haven't seen it.

Now with Rings of Power I sadly am going to watch it. But only so I can at least make a detailed discussion about my loves and hates about it and the fact that some of it does actually look interesting. And that its not a reboot, although I am getting tired of prequels now. Looking at you House of Dragons :P

[InfiniteCharger]

The only two sides in this are:

1) The original author and their characters, stories, plots and themes

2) Whether some studio who buys the rights to said authors work are faithful to that work or making something of their own which has elements of the original authors work.

Fans who like the story, characters, plot and settings of the original author rightfully expect the studio to stay reasonably faithful to that work especially if they want to maintain that fan base. Others, who may not be familiar with the original work may just see the whatever is produced by the studio as its own thing and judge it solely by that. But to say that this represents "two sides" of a fandom as if everybody thinks alike or has the same opinions is very misleading. Some original fans of a story or character will be offended by changes made by the studio in doing an adaptation of the story, just like some people with their own imagined versions of tolkiens character were just outraged at the idea of a movie based on his books. Others who are fans of the original will be more willing to go along with the changes and give the new show a chance and others while not as outraged as the first group may still have a threshold of specific changes to the source material where they no longer accept it as faithful. And you can have many variations of all the above. And this goes for adaptations of novels, manga, comic books, anime and so forth. The only thing that is "special" about Tolkien is that he himself was very specific about his intent on keeping his vision and story intact and not modified or altered by any studio doing an adaptation. And that gives some of those fans who are very defensive against altering the source material another reason to be offended that studios take liberties with it and go against the original authors intent.

Studios like Amazon have made it their mission to put Diversity and Inclusion (DEI) at the forefront of producing any new shows on their streaming platform. And therefore it doesn't matter what the content is, they will change it to suit those mandates from the studio. Not to mention you got stuff like this from the tolkien society itself:

[InfiniteCharger]

I don't know about gatekeeping but I was just as outraged about studios doing an Akira adaptation and moving it to New York City.
That isn't racist or sexist on my part and I am not Japanese so the idea that I "needed" them to change the casting to be more American doesn't make sense. And technically that would be DEI in reverse wouldn't it. But last I checked 70s Hong Kong Karate movies were popular in America among non Asians, so where is this idea that people "need to see themselves" in something coming from? American movies and entertainment is popular around the world, but if that argument was valid, then nobody would like those things unless they were American. All this nonsense about gatekeeping just comes off as "fans" of some existing IP should automatically like whatever adaptation is done no matter what, which obviously doesn't make sense. "Fans" have always been a very vocal and sometimes disagreeable group, but that does not imply "gatekeeping", it is just that some people as "fans" have differing interpretations and visions of these fantasy worlds even as a "fandom".

No different than that horrific adaptation of Death Note on Netflix being rejected by fans. People acting like just because it is Tolkien it should be treated differently than any other work of fiction being adapted is silly. Source material should be respected either way. But that's me everyone has the right to their own opinion of course and their own tastes. Look how horrible the adaptation of Halo turned out, which again is about staying true to the source material and so forth.

A new Amzaon prime video discussing more about the upcoming adaptation and how it is now "inspired" by Tolkien but not literally an adaptation of Tolkien:



There's a new fellowship and now Galadriel is on a 1000 year quest...... Which is absolutely not what Tolkien intended or wrote about her character. Some will like it and some won't but this is what Amazon has decided to do with this story in order to make it like "Lord of the Rings" which doesn't make sense.

[VMSmith]

I literally got called sexist because my only excuse was that it was a reboot and I wasnt going to watch it. and to this day have no opinion on it because I haven't seen it.

I've been called a Trump supporter here because I'm critical of Democrats on various issues, MMOC's woke mob is quite quick to label everyone a witch when they don't conform 100% to their desires, even when a disagreement is as innocuous as "I'm not going to watch it".

There's also their gaslighting, where they tell you you're being an old silly-billy and all they really want is for people to wait for the show to come out to judge it three posts before another one chimes in with how you're "screeching about diversity and inclusion" and claiming your position is "I will find anything to complain about". See, you're not allowed to decide for yourself what bothers you about a show that's coming out, according to them, but they'll pretend it's you that's actually "gatekeeping".

I appreciate both your and InfiniteCharger's posts, both of you have been reasonable and measured.

[Orby]

I really like this video. Which displays my opinions clearly. There are good reasons people can be sceptical about the show and bad reasons.

All of my reasons fall in the good reasons. Most importantly the first 3 :P

[VMSmith]

MMOC's woke mob is quite quick to label everyone a witch

Hey, I said those things! Cool.

But if you identified with those statements, that's kinda on you lol The rest of the words around these bits don't reflect reality, though, I'm afraid.

Then again, you also say things like "woke mob," so that tells me to just not bother.

Just wait for it to come out, bro. Then you can have a little cry about it if you need to.

You are the worst mind-reader, ever. And thanks for proving my point about how quick you folk are to deride anyone that deviates even a tiny bit from your orthodoxy.

You are welcome to the last word, as I'll be ignoring you now and focusing on the people that bring an actual interesting conversation to the topic.

On that note:

A new Amzaon prime video discussing more about the upcoming adaptation and how it is now "inspired" by Tolkien but not literally an adaptation of Tolkien

That makes a lot more sense, as the show does seem to be much more of an "inspired by" show than a "this is actually part of the story now" thing. I'm sure some will enjoy it, but it doesn't really look like anything I'll be much interested in at this point.

I'm not sure how I feel about Amazon as a content creation outlet. So far the only thing I've truly enjoyed by them has been "Good Omens". I tried Invincible and Vox Machina but neither one really suits my interests, though both seemed well done. And while I enjoyed the first season of The Boys, there's just something about the gratuitousness and level of parody of it that doesn't appeal to me.

I'm not really much of a tv/film watcher, so maybe there's more out there on Prime that would appeal to me if I really looked. The last thing I watched on Prime was a documentary about the D&D artists. I've never read Wheel of Time so I might be able to enjoy that without any preconceptions.

[bledgor]

I'm not really much of a tv/film watcher, so maybe there's more out there on Prime that would appeal to me if I really looked. The last thing I watched on Prime was a documentary about the D&D artists. I've never read Wheel of Time so I might be able to enjoy that without any preconceptions.

Even non book reader friends have told me it is meh, 5 if they are feeling very nice 6/10 fantasy, I wouldn't recommend.

[VMSmith]

Even non book reader friends have told me it is meh, 5 if they are feeling very nice 6/10 fantasy, I wouldn't recommend.

Thanks for the heads-up. I've really been in a mood for some fantasy shows, so that's why I've been considering giving it a try, but the resounding disappointment by the fans of the book has had me leery. I may have to try at least one episode just to satiate my curiosity, but I'll go into it not expecting something stunning.

I really miss things like Dragonslayer and Legend, fantasy that wasn't ashamed to be fantastic and didn't feel a need for grittiness or realism. They knew they were fantasy and dragons and goblins and such and just leaned into it and enjoyed it.

[Biomega]

I really miss things like Dragonslayer and Legend, fantasy that wasn't ashamed to be fantastic and didn't feel a need for grittiness or realism. They knew they were fantasy and dragons and goblins and such and just leaned into it and enjoyed it.

No realism or grit in a 2022 TV show?

SURELY YOU'RE JOKING.

Haven't you heard, unless literally everything is Game of Thrones now, it won't make any money!

[Corvus]

Among the worst parts of Jackson's movies was the over the top elf wuxia performed by Legolas, that got worse and worse with each movie. Sadly, it looks like Amazon thought it was kewl and is going all Galadriel Warrior Princess.

[VMSmith]

No realism or grit in a 2022 TV show?

SURELY YOU'RE JOKING.

Haven't you heard, unless literally everything is Game of Thrones now, it won't make any money!

There's also the "everything about this is funny" approach, which I'm somewhat worried about with the D&D movie.

The fantasy films of the 70s and 80s just had such an earnestness about them that feels lacking in the more modern fare. Hell, I even miss things like Dragonheart, which was pretty cheesy.

The Lord of the Rings movies were really the last fantasy films I find that I've enjoyed. Fantasy offerings since then just haven't really appealed to me.

[Biomega]

There's also the "everything about this is funny" approach, which I'm somewhat worried about with the D&D movie.

The fantasy films of the 70s and 80s just had such an earnestness about them that feels lacking in the more modern fare. Hell, I even miss things like Dragonheart, which was pretty cheesy.

The Lord of the Rings movies were really the last fantasy films I find that I've enjoyed. Fantasy offerings since then just haven't really appealed to me.

It is kind of weird, isn't it, that as special-effects technology has gotten better, the quality of fantasy movies in particular seems to have gone down dramatically. They hardly ever make unabashedly fantasy movies anyway, it's all preteeen/teenage franchise stuff or some other kind of drama-in-a-fantasy-dressing. And of course the dark, gritty, "look guys, GoT was kind of a money-spinner right?" material.

Maybe it's not the time anymore, who knows.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lulz

[haediff]

I don't see an issue with this, personally.

Might look a bit dumb, but this is just action in 2022.

It's really not "action in 2022." Go watch a good movie or TV show from this era and the action sequences look real. They might as well have not edited out the ropes pulling her into the air. Looks like shit.

[rogoth]

I don't particularly care about "the last word." I literally just pointed out that you painted yourself with whatever brush you think I was holding lol

Nowhere have I said people can't have opinions. The typical opinion in this sub-forum just happens to be a series of the usual garbage. I'm more of a "wait and see" kinda guy, myself. I'm not about to cry over something I have yet to see. Again, people literally had to debate blades and scissors...

Ignoring people to "focusing on the people that bring an actual interesting conversation to the topic" is just your way of running away from something lol Again, you painted yourself with that brush, not me.

God, I'd love to know what my orthodoxy is, though. Is it something beyond "wait and see"?

that's fine, good for you, i have a question for you then, lets assume for a second that the show flops and is everything that me and others have 'complained about', would you then come back here and apologise to those of us who under this assumption have every right to say 'i told you so'?, or are you too prideful to admit when you're wrong?, because i will be watching this shitshow unfold and IF they have somehow made something that is the antithesis of the marketing material they have pushed out and is actually something decent, then i will happily apologise for my preconceived notions, working under the opposite assumption that the show is a good show, i somehow highly doubt you have the moral decency or the spine to admit you're wrong because you and everyone else who is labelling people with the ists and phobes and isms tags because it's easier to that than actually engage in a meaningful discussion these days.

- - - Updated - - -

Among the worst parts of Jackson's movies was the over the top elf wuxia performed by Legolas, that got worse and worse with each movie. Sadly, it looks like Amazon thought it was kewl and is going all Galadriel Warrior Princess.

and the reason why very few people (you are likely one of only a handful) actually care about any of that is because it happened in a few scenes over the course of HOURS of overall movie footage, the whole super elf legolas portion could probably be summarised into maybe 5-10 minutes of total on screen time, out of a trilogy of movies with a combined runtime over well over 12 hours, unlike this current excuse for a show, which is putting that whole concept front and center main character material, where the entire show will be this, and that's the difference, if it needed to be spelled out for you then it's not surprising why you're still hung up on something that most fans have disregarded as anything more than artistic license.

[Adamas102]

that's fine, good for you, i have a question for you then, lets assume for a second that the show flops and is everything that me and others have 'complained about', would you then come back here and apologise to those of us who under this assumption have every right to say 'i told you so'?

The show isn't going to flop because of any of the crap that people in this thread have been bitching about (casting minorities, action oriented focus on Galadriel, condensed timeline, haircuts, interviews with the showrunners, etc). Believe it or not, the vast majority of people who are going to check out this show aren't coming in with some preconceived notion of how the appendices at the back of the book the probably didn't read should be adapted. They're going to see that the tone and aesthetics match the popular movies that they watched and that there's a recognizable character that bridges things together.

Even if they made the show 100% true to every detail in the source material, it could still flop if things like plot, pacing, acting, and writing make it a boring slog. These are the things that make or break shows. Not dark skinned hobbits and female warriors. If the story is well told with understandable character motivations and arcs, good pacing, clear stakes, captivating plot and action, then it doesn't matter how many people cry about "not MY Galadriel", it's going to do just fine. If it lacks the fundamental principles that make for a good narrative (something that Tolkien didn't leave behind for this part of his work), then it may well fail.

[Biomega]

Even if they made the show 100% true to every detail in the source material, it could still flop if things like plot, pacing, acting, and writing make it a boring slog. These are the things that make or break shows. Not dark skinned hobbits and female warriors.

While I would definitely agree with this in principle, there DOES exist a correlation between representational casting and bad writing - just not in the way the "anti-woke" crowd thinks. It's not that having PoC or women actors or whatever lowers the quality; they can and do make for perfectly fine actors, and there's absolutely a need to diversify roles more. The problem is with the writers and producers, who far too often tend to think that diversity = quality, and that if they just write/cast diverse enough, that's a substitute for good writing/casting in and of itself. Which is patently untrue, and actually counterproductive, even insulting, to the goal of normalizing diversity.

"We cast some black people and women, therefore the show must be good; and if you disagree, you're just a bigot who hates diversity!" seems to be an implicit, unspoken verdict that hangs over far too many projects. Which is NOT how you do diversity OR quality right. Of course, the same holds in reverse: "They cast a bunch of black people and women, therefore the show must suck; and if you disagree, you're just a woke libtard!" is equally untrue, and both damaging and unhelpful.

At the end of the day, bad writing is bad writing. THAT is what I'm afraid of for the show more than anything.