1. #2121
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Believe it or not, the vast majority of people who are going to check out this show aren't coming in with some preconceived notion
    This may well be true, but you do realize that it is a tacit admission that the show is NOT being made for fans of Tolkien's work ... y'know, the people who have some preconceived notion about the material? And, therefore, those people are perfectly within the realm of reasonableness allowed to complain about the fact that the show plays extremely fast and loose with the material that they would prefer to see it adhere to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Given the amount of times this sort of thing has come up in threads about various shows it’s pretty clear that some people think that having X minority cast for a roll means that role only exist because they wanted a minority not because they could have been a good actor who just so happens to fit.
    I've been reading these threads for quite awhile and have not seen this happen even once.

    What people have complained about is when X minority is cast for a role that calls for a non-minority actor, which has been admitted by Hollywood execs and people within these threads to be the actual goal. It's been admitted that they don't always cast for acting ability and specifically choose minority actors on occasion simply to fulfill a diversity quota.

    I have not seen anyone complain that there are black or brown people in movies or TV shows, otherwise. Please point to me one review of West Side Story that complains that it has too many Latin actors in it.

    Maybe you think a black dwarf is brave casting, but many people can see that it's simply pushing an agenda in what is ostensibly a form of entertainment. But if this show included a black Haradrim who saves the day at some point and becomes a valued ally (eta I forgot the Hradrim did not exist until later, as they were descended from the Numenoreans, so this could not really happen anyway. If we care about lore at all.)
    Last edited by VMSmith; 2022-08-05 at 05:12 AM.

  2. #2122
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    except Amazon HAS A POLICY EXPLICITLY DETAILING IT'S MANDATORY TO HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE MINORITY GROUPS CAST REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY FIT THE NARRATIVE OR NOT
    Good lord.

    Who gives a shit.

    Even if that were true, the only way it could possibly impact the quality of the production is if you believe minorities are inherently inferior.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    out of the entire 'main' cast of people, not one of them has any major acting credits to their name, they are either completely unknown, or they have had bit parts as extras/small indie projects
    Which, following on from the above, is only a problem for the minorities right? Like...how many people even heard Morfydd Clark's name before she was cast in this? I saw Saint Maud a couple years ago, but that movie was miles away from what could be expected out of a LotR production.

  3. #2123
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,163
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    those actors are usually the ones who are part of a project that also contains main A-list actors who are cast as the main characters and the unknown/indie actor comes in as a pseudo main character and does a good enough job to set themselves off onto a trajectory of superstardom, not a single movie/tv show that has cast EVERY main character as an unknown/indie actor has ever done well to my knowledge, if you can provide an example i'll happily go and watch it to make my own mind up on it but i don't know of a single big budget production where the main cast are all unknown nobodies or bit part actors with barely any major roles to their names.
    I see your moving the goal post from the actors not being “amazing at their job without having much or any prior experience” to “ big budget production where the main cast are all unknown nobodies or bit part actors with barely any major roles to their names.”.

    But Either way, I’d suggest you go watch A New Hope, there really is no better example given marks fords and Carrie’s previous experience and what followed it.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #2124
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    except Amazon HAS A POLICY EXPLICITLY DETAILING IT'S MANDATORY TO HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE MINORITY GROUPS CAST REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY FIT THE NARRATIVE OR NOT, and out of the entire 'main' cast of people, not one of them has any major acting credits to their name, they are either completely unknown, or they have had bit parts as extras/small indie projects, i would genuinely be surprised if any of them were better quality than some of the people were reported to have auditioned for these roles when they were doing the acting cast calls back in 2018, but please, tell me how all of these actors are somehow amazing at their job without having much or any prior experience?
    Really just grasping at straws here, huh?

    Some of those main actors on the show have more experience than a third of the Fellowship actors had combined. Orlando Bloom and Billy Boyd had only done minor roles in like 2-3 movies before being cast in Fellowship, while for Dominic Monaghan it was his first movie casting ever. Elijah Wood had recognition as a child actor, but Fellowship was the turning point for his career as an adult, and Sean Astin was mostly just known for movies like Goonies and Rudy in the 80's and early 90's. Viggo Mortensen was a pretty unknown actor, playing mostly supporting roles until his big break as Aragorn. Ian McKellen's most recognizable acting credit for general audiences came the year before Fellowship when he was cast as Magneto. Sean Bean was probably the most recognizable of the group, though outside of Britons who were familiar with the Sharpe series he was mostly just recognizable as having played a villain in a Bond movie. Karl Urban and Andy Serkis were also complete unknowns at the time and look at them now.

    The idea that you need a large portion of your cast to have "major acting credits" is total idiocy. And worst of all, the idea that minority actors who are cast in roles that used to be predominately given to white actors are "unfit" to act in such roles is pure, unabashed racism. There are no elves, dwarves, or hobbits in real life, but according to you they can/should only be played by white actors? That it would be inconceivable for a black man to portray a noble elf so surely anyone they hired to do so would be a total failure is essentially what you're saying. It has nothing to do with narrative, and everything to do with your idea that only white people (doesn't matter whether they're British, Australian, Americans) can read the lines and act the part of a Tolkien elf.

  5. #2125
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Even if that were true, the only way it could possibly impact the quality of the production is if you believe minorities are inherently inferior.
    So, by the logic you state here, hiring only white people in the past did not impact the quality of anything. More qualified minorities were never overlooked simply because they are minorities. There was nothing wrong with only hiring white people because they were always the most qualified ... unless you believe white people are inherently inferior?

    That's bunk logic, and you know it, and it's why your statement is bunk, as well.

    If there is a quota for a certain type of people, regardless of what quality you choose to discriminate by, then people who are not of that certain type will be passed over despite being more qualified. Because you are not looking at qualifications, you are looking to fill a quota. It's wrong when we only want to cast white people at the expense of minorites and it's wrong when we only want to cast minorities at the expense of white people.

    But I have come to learn, through this forum, that there is a goodly number of people who do indeed seek to disadvantage white people to "make up" for the oppression of the past. They have stated exactly that.

  6. #2126
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    So, by the logic you state here, hiring only white people in the past did not impact the quality of anything. More qualified minorities were never overlooked simply because they are minorities. There was nothing wrong with only hiring white people because they were always the most qualified ... unless you believe white people are inherently inferior?

    That's bunk logic, and you know it, and it's why your statement is bunk, as well.
    Of course it's bunk. Because it has fuck-all to do with what I said.

  7. #2127
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I see your moving the goal post from the actors not being “amazing at their job without having much or any prior experience” to “ big budget production where the main cast are all unknown nobodies or bit part actors with barely any major roles to their names.”.

    But Either way, I’d suggest you go watch A New Hope, there really is no better example given marks fords and Carrie’s previous experience and what followed it.
    You're right, there were absolutely no well-known actors in the main cast of ANH. Except for Alec Guinness. And Peter Cushing.

    Studios do cast "nobodies" all the time, but usually pair them with "somebodies" if they want to get butts in seats. Guinness and Cushing gave Star Wars an air of legitimacy that sci-fi rarely was granted in that era.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Of course it's bunk. Because it has fuck-all to do with what I said.
    Your assertion was that if one thinks mandating a certain percentage of minorities in casting can impact film quality then it can only be because one thinks that minorities are inherently inferior. Your assertion is untrue because first you presume others thoughts. But also because mandating anything most definitely can impact quality because at some point you may have to sacrifice quality to meet the mandate.

  8. #2128
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    This may well be true, but you do realize that it is a tacit admission that the show is NOT being made for fans of Tolkien's work ... y'know, the people who have some preconceived notion about the material? And, therefore, those people are perfectly within the realm of reasonableness allowed to complain about the fact that the show plays extremely fast and loose with the material that they would prefer to see it adhere to?
    It's not really an either or thing. Not every fan of LotR enjoyed the movies, and not every fan of the Hobbit hated that movie trilogy. The idea that a show can only be made for EITHER fans of the source material OR general audiences is a fallacy. The "fans" in question (the posters complaining in this thread) tend to be strict purists that claim every single detail is important whether it has to do with dates or skin color. Not every fan of the books and/or movies is going to be hung up on things like that, and people who aren't super familiar with the source material are CERTAINLY not going to care.

    And it's not that people aren't allowed to complain, but not all opinions or complaints hold the same validity. There can certainly be good arguments made for what needs to change in order to adapt a written work to the screen. Something like condensing the timeline could have good arguments for and against, but so far all I've seen is "they're changing the timeline, Tolkien is rolling in his grave". For instance, several pages back I pointed out how ridiculous it would be to maintain the timeline outlined in the appendices just for the forging of the rings (300 years between when Sauron seduces the smiths of Eregion to when they learn how to forge the rings, 10 more years for them to forge the rings, 10 years more for Sauron to forge the One Ring, and then 33 years before the Elves and Sauron go to war). You can't maintain an interesting and cohesive narrative to tell that story while keeping those dates as is. It's the same with many of the other series of events in the Second Age; it would either be relegate everything to prologue like lore dumps with no actual story, or focus on one tiny (and by itself uninteresting) piece of the century spanning story.

    No one addresses things like that, though. No one that is against the show (in this thread at least) has pointed out why any of these changes are actually bad for telling a story based on the world that Tolkien LOOSELY created, just that they're bad because they don't adhere strictly to the written word (which isn't a good enough argument when adapting a story from one medium to another).
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-05 at 05:40 AM.

  9. #2129
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    24,163
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    You're right, there were absolutely no well-known actors in the main cast of ANH. Except for Alec Guinness. And Peter Cushing.

    Studios do cast "nobodies" all the time, but usually pair them with "somebodies" if they want to get butts in seats. Guinness and Cushing gave Star Wars an air of legitimacy that sci-fi rarely was granted in that era.
    Peter Cushing was not part of the ‘main’ cast, he was a side character who had like two or three scenes with under 6m of screen time.

    Alec Guinness As Obiwan obviously had much more of a roll but if we’re going to pretend his star power is what pushed ANH’S success or that he was a A-list actor at the time we might as well say the sky is red.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I've been reading these threads for quite awhile and have not seen this happen even once.
    Go read through the Obiwan thread about Reva, there you even had people admitting that her acting fit a sith role but that she still shouldn’t have been cast because she also fell into a “angry black woman” stereotype.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-08-05 at 05:45 AM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #2130
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    So, by the logic you state here, hiring only white people in the past did not impact the quality of anything. More qualified minorities were never overlooked simply because they are minorities. There was nothing wrong with only hiring white people because they were always the most qualified ... unless you believe white people are inherently inferior?
    No one is saying that white actors are inferior. No one is saying that white actors can't play dwarves, elves, or hobbits. However, some posters here are very clearly suggesting that minorities can't play dwarves, elves, or hobbits. That any minority actor who is hired to do so is an inferior casting choice. The implication seems to be that only white people can accurately portray diminutive, bearded mountain dwellers, or noble, elegant, immortal humanoids with pointy ears. If a Puerto Rican attempted to read the same lines and act the part they would ruin the entire narrative simply because of the color of their skin, and there are apparently no Puerto Ricans with the acting ability to pull it off.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-05 at 06:14 AM.

  11. #2131
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    No one is saying that white actors are inferior. No one is saying that white actors can't play dwarves, elves, or hobbits. However, some posters here are very clearly suggesting that minorities can't play dwarves, elves, or hobbits. That any minority actor who is hired to do so is an inferior casting choice. The implication seems to be that only white people can accurately portray diminutive, bearded mountain dwellers, or noble, elegant, immortal humanoids with pointy ears. If a Puerto Rican attempted to read the same lines and act the part they would ruin the entire narrative simply because of the color of their skin, and there are apparently no Puerto Ricans with the acting ability to pull it off.
    not in middle earth they can't, because the author, J.R.R Tolkein, wrote his works and these races specifically to be representative of English/British peoples, and NONE of those people were of colour or were asian, meaning that by the definition of the author and his works, all of the people of these fictional races he created had explicitly defined appearances, traits, and histories, but you and the minority group of people who are actually defending this shitshow of a production dislike this and as such have on multiple occasions now pulled the 'racism' card as your main bulwark of defence because you have no actual point besides that, and just to be absolutely crystal clear about something, the made up character for this show 'arondir', the 'black elf', his character is described in all related media as being a silvan elf, which doesn't make any fucking sense because during the second age, the Sindar reconnected with their silvan brethren and the silvan elves all but ceased to be in terms of a society, not to mention that the language they all spoke died out and sindarin was the new de facto language of all silvan elves, so not only should he not be 'black' from a lore standpoint regarding elves of middle earth in general as not a single elf in any of the written works of tolkein ever ventured east or south enough where evolution would have allowed them to become darker skinned, but the writers are so incompetent they made up a new character (which is whatever) but they tried to shoehorn him into a faction of elves that during the second age functionally didn't exist anymore, so please go on about how anybody can be anything when everything that is written contradicts that notion and that we should all be praising how 'strong' and 'brave' these writers and production staff are for casting a black guy in a role he has no business being in regardless of whether he is a brilliant actor or not.

  12. #2132
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    3,270
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    except Amazon HAS A POLICY EXPLICITLY DETAILING IT'S MANDATORY TO HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE MINORITY GROUPS CAST REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY FIT THE NARRATIVE OR NOT, and out of the entire 'main' cast of people, not one of them has any major acting credits to their name, they are either completely unknown, or they have had bit parts as extras/small indie projects, i would genuinely be surprised if any of them were better quality than some of the people were reported to have auditioned for these roles when they were doing the acting cast calls back in 2018, but please, tell me how all of these actors are somehow amazing at their job without having much or any prior experience?
    Some of the best actors from LotR, Star Wars or Marvel movies were basically no-names before their roles and they did a great job. No clue what "any prior experience" has to do with that lol. I actually prefer to see new faces because "big star actors" just feel like they play themselves and destroy immersion.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  13. #2133
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Delta swamp of the west
    Posts
    4,771
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Some of the best actors from LotR, Star Wars or Marvel movies were basically no-names before their roles and they did a great job. No clue what "any prior experience" has to do with that lol. I actually prefer to see new faces because "big star actors" just feel like they play themselves and destroy immersion.
    What about GoT. Most actors were also unknown actors, with the exception of, there he is again, Sean Bean.

  14. #2134
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    The Rumour Tower
    Posts
    3,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    What about GoT. Most actors were also unknown actors, with the exception of, there he is again, Sean Bean.
    True! Or Stranger Things (besides Winona Ryder). Also Sean Bean is a great example of an "oh it's Sean Bean, when will he die?" actor. :P

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  15. #2135
    Bloodsail Admiral Smallfruitbat's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Khadgars' Tower
    Posts
    1,017
    Diversity is an absolute cancer when it comes to fantasy. Most sagas/series have clearly defined races but the current casting trend does not want to entertain this.

    As RoP is not out yet, I'll fall back to "Wheel of Time". Neither the casting directors nor Rafe Judkins had the bollocks to do it properly. They picked a hotch-potch of people for Emmons field because Rafe thought that was what society in his mind should be. I genuinely think they would have gotten far less backlash from fans had they picked one 'race' whether it be Indian, Hispanic or African origins for those characters.

    What I've seen so far of the casting for RoP boils down to -we need more PoC in these roles lets have a token black dwarf and a token black elf.

  16. #2136
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    not in middle earth they can't, because the author, J.R.R Tolkein, wrote his works and these races specifically to be representative of English/British peoples, and NONE of those people were of colour or were asian, meaning that by the definition of the author and his works, all of the people of these fictional races he created had explicitly defined appearances, traits, and histories, but you and the minority group of people who are actually defending this shitshow of a production dislike this and as such have on multiple occasions now pulled the 'racism' card as your main bulwark of defence because you have no actual point besides that
    The idea that adaptations of a fantasy world need to stick to the racial demographics that were acceptable by a British scholar writing in the 1930's and 40's is just ridiculous. "Tolkien wrote it therefor it must be followed to the letter" isn't a good enough excuse. Tolkien created a wonderful world filled with diversity and narratives about good vs evil, power, free will, and courage, a world that wasn't rooted in the history of the real world. The idea that this world was strictly created for white people with characters that can only be portrayed by white people is without a doubt a racist ideology.

    What desolate corners of the internet do you have to visit to still find the outrage concerning two of the most pivotal characters in the movies being cast with American actors? If Aragorn and Frodo were played by actors such as Chiwetel Ejiofor, Idris Elba, Riz Ahmed, or Rege-Jean Page I can only imagine the spike in blood pressure you and your merry band of racist gatekeepers would have. Obviously the implication is that being white is more British than actually being British.

    Tolkien is dead, and whatever he might have thought about the great diversity in what constitutes the people of Britain nowadays is irrelevant. He wanted to make a mythology for England, and this is what England looks like now (Tolkien never specified that he just wanted to make fantasy for white English people). Just as adaptations of Shakespeare's works don't have to adhere to the strict norms and demographics of his time, neither do Tolkien's. If you want to continue to push for this idea of racial purity in works where it has no place then don't be surprised when people call you out for what you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    not only should he not be 'black' from a lore standpoint regarding elves of middle earth in general as not a single elf in any of the written works of tolkein ever ventured east or south enough where evolution would have allowed them to become darker skinned, but the writers are so incompetent they made up a new character (which is whatever) but they tried to shoehorn him into a faction of elves that during the second age functionally didn't exist anymore, so please go on about how anybody can be anything when everything that is written contradicts that notion and that we should all be praising how 'strong' and 'brave' these writers and production staff are for casting a black guy in a role he has no business being in regardless of whether he is a brilliant actor or not.
    Elves aren't humans. They didn't evolve like humans. The don't have the same physiology as humans. They don't need to adhere to the biology of real world humans. It's a non-issue in the context of a world where humanoid creatures are simply awakened into being, essentially immortal and capable of fantastical superhuman feats. Hell, even the Men of Middle Earth aren’t actually Homo sapiens given that they share no biological or evolutionary history with actual humans. So yeah, fuck off with your "but melanin" excuse.

    More importantly, get your fucking Tolkien right before you spout your bullshit. The Sindar that merged with the silvan elves in the 2nd Age forming the Woodland Realm under the rule of Oropher adopted the SILVAN language and customs. On top of that, the silvan elves existed (referenced by Tolkien himself) all the way into the 4th Age. Appendix B states that after the War of the Ring, after Galadriel's passing and Celeborn settling in Imladris "In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled". So yeah, a wood-elf in the 2nd Age could very well refer to themselves as a silvan elf.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-05 at 09:34 AM.

  17. #2137
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    "Tolkien wrote it therefor it must be followed to the letter" isn't a good enough excuse.
    Why not? He described the appearance and genealogy of the peoples of middle earth so it seemed important to him. Why should we discard that?
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  18. #2138
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Why not? He described the appearance and genealogy of the peoples of middle earth so it seemed important to him. Why should we discard that?
    It’s not about “should” or “shouldn’t”. It’s about what is necessary to maintain the narrative themes that are the pillars of Tolkien’s works.

    The lore details are important to a certain extent, but not all are necessary when adapting the work and maintaining the spirit of the source material.

    Let’s take a look at adaptations of Shakespeare’s works. Some of the best ones very deliberately divorce themselves from the setting and/or demographics of the original plays. They work because it’s the narratives and themes of the stories that make them classics, not every single minor detail from the source material.

    Tolkien isn’t revered as an author because he was good at making lists of names and describing how characters looked. It’s the narratives he created and themes he explored within this fantastical world, narratives and themes that aren’t hamstrung by every minor detail.

    As an exercise, pick any major character from LotR and boil them down to let’s say three key traits that define that character. Things like how they act and speak, their motivations, their history, their place in society, their skills, their faults and weaknesses, and so forth. Even boiled down to only three traits every character should still stand out as unique and recognizable, and you don’t even have to fall back on as meaningless a detail as their hair or skin color.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-05 at 09:43 AM.

  19. #2139
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    It’s not about “should” or “shouldn’t”. It’s about what is necessary to maintain the narrative themes that are the pillars of Tolkien’s works.

    The lore details are important to a certain extent, but not all are necessary when adapting the work and maintaining the spirit of the source material.

    Let’s take a look at adaptations of Shakespeare’s works. Some of the best ones very deliberately divorce themselves from the setting and/or demographics of the original plays. They work because it’s the narratives and themes of the stories that make them classics, not every single minor detail from the source material.

    Tolkien isn’t revered as an author because he was good at making lists of names and describing how characters looked. It’s the narratives he created and themes he explored within this fantastical world, narratives and themes that aren’t hamstrung by every minor detail.

    As an exercise, pick any major character from LotR and boil them down to let’s say three key traits that define that character. Things like how they act and speak, their motivations, their history, their place in society, their skills, their faults and weaknesses, and so forth. Even boiled down to only three traits every character should still stand out as unique and recognizable, and you don’t even have to fall back on as meaningless a detail as their hair or skin color.
    Consistency and coherence are two pillars of every narrative work.

    Where do black or asian elves come from? Are they from a different culture? How did they integrate into their current societies? These are things that the audience knows for real people, but shouldn't assume for a fantasy world. If physical appearance is completely irrelevant to a character, then why are we supposed to care that they are an elf, or a dwarf, or an orc? We have to suspend our disbelief and pay attention only to the fantasy part, while ignoring certain elements that are there only to reflect the real world. It's like keeping the people in greenscreen suits around and telling the audience that those are necessary for the VFX, they just have to ignore them.

    If a writer is willing to put in the work of taking Tolkien's world and introducing entire subcultures, with their history and how they each became part of a mixed society, then by all means (though at that point, it'd be easier making it an original show), go ahead and expand on that. However, casting anyone as anyone and asking the audience to ignore inconsistencies within the universe is a sign that they don't really care about the quality of the product. It's not even that inclusive, to be honest.
    Last edited by Soulwind; 2022-08-05 at 10:04 AM.

  20. #2140
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    More importantly, get your fucking Tolkien right before you spout your bullshit. The Sindar that merged with the silvan elves in the 2nd Age forming the Woodland Realm under the rule of Oropher adopted the SILVAN language and customs. On top of that, the silvan elves existed (referenced by Tolkien himself) all the way into the 4th Age. Appendix B states that after the War of the Ring, after Galadriel's passing and Celeborn settling in Imladris "In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled". So yeah, a wood-elf in the 2nd Age could very well refer to themselves as a silvan elf.
    No, the Sindarin language is the divergent language of the Sindar, the portion of the Teleri people that never reached Valinor, and came to inhabit and rule Beleriand, with their culturally most important realm being Thingol & Melian's Doriath, of which the Silvan realm of Oropher and later Thranduil's is a clear echo.
    A somewhat interesting added bit of lore that came together with Tauriel in the Hobbit Trilogy is the social hierarchy (artificially?) opposing the noble heritage of the Sindar, marked by Thranduil and Legolas fairness, to the simpler and less fair silvan elves like Tauriel, which were yet another subset of the Teleri that abandoned the journey earlier than the Sindar that came to rule them later.

    There were not many groups of elves depicted as silvan beside the Greenwood and perhaps Lothlorien, but the latter even included some Noldor heritage.

    My bet on them qualifying him as a silvan elf while having in mind the idea of a wild elf, which could have worked, especially given that there are not many great forests on the map of Middle Earth beside Greewood, Lorien and Fangorn...
    Unless perhaps they'll go with that bit East of the sea of Rhûn? It could make sense if that is used as window to see the growing power of Mordor just South.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •