1. #2141
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Damn people forgot how the witch king was defeated in his movies, Jackson was woke as hell lol.
    Not Jackson. Tolkien.
    He wrote the story as the Witch King's unpleasant surprise, since it was never thought a woman would ever confront him, especially on a field of battle. And I'm sure "race" wasn't an issue. Quite an oversight on the elves' and dwarves' part.

  2. #2142
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Damn people forgot how the witch king was defeated in his movies, Jackson was woke as hell lol.
    Also one of the main themes in the trilogy was inclusivity. Men, dwarves, elves and hobbits had to put aside their differences and work together to defeat a great evil. Super woke and super liberal, sorry contards.

  3. #2143
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Schiedam, the Netherlands
    Posts
    3,165
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    Also one of the main themes in the trilogy was inclusivity. Men, dwarves, elves and hobbits had to put aside their differences and work together to defeat a great evil. Super woke and super liberal, sorry contards.
    Yeah very inclusive but not wOmAn StRoNk
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  4. #2144
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    Also one of the main themes in the trilogy was inclusivity. Men, dwarves, elves and hobbits had to put aside their differences and work together to defeat a great evil. Super woke and super liberal, sorry contards.
    Wait until people find out elves canonically use gender-neutral pronouns.

  5. #2145
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Yeah very inclusive but not wOmAn StRoNk
    IDK if it counts as "wOmAn StRoNk", but Tolkien very much intended for Galadriel to be a savagely OP badass. Doesn't quite come out in LotR because her time has passed at that point (and she intentionally RENOUNCES power) but she'd always been pretty damn powerful. And he wanted to make her even more so in additional stories, he just didn't get around to it.

    If RoP makes her into a mow-down valkyrie type of character, that really isn't straying far from Tolkien's intent.

  6. #2146
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Damn people forgot how the witch king was defeated in his movies, Jackson was woke as hell lol. To be honest the only thing that I think is lame, is removing the fact dwarf women have beards. Oh and the abundance of buzz cuts... it looks so out of place. Rest looks fine.
    That's from Tolkien not Jackson. If he was vulnerable to women but had been considered nigh invincible do you think that might mean that women combatants were near non existent since you know one would have killed him by then especially considering the prophecy. That said the Barrow Blade also played a role but can't really talk about that when that whole segment is cut.

  7. #2147
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    That's from Tolkien not Jackson. If he was vulnerable to women but had been considered nigh invincible do you think that might mean that women combatants were near non existent since you know one would have killed him by then especially considering the prophecy. That said the Barrow Blade also played a role but can't really talk about that when that whole segment is cut.
    "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."

    Said an elf, to a man. Thousands of years after the fall of Numenor. Why would anyone assume that meant "he was vulnerable to women?" It could have just as easily meant that he'd die at the hands of a hobbit...or an orc...or a dwarf...or a cat.

  8. #2148
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Stealing a comment from Reddit:


    But Legolas had flowing golden hair and a fair complexion, so it was a perfectly respectful no-scope sniping.
    Flowing golden hair and fair complexion is a trait of the elves in general. The fact that he has lived thousands of years and practiced till his aim was flawless is why he is able to do what he does with a bow. NOT because the author is trying to say golden haired white people are just naturally better than anyone else. Tolkien created these stories as a way to create a lost Anglo Saxon themed mythos that was all but destroyed during the early period of that part of the world due to the sheer amount of violence and war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I'm gonna have to call you out on this...because you aren't waiting for the show to be released and finding the "multitude of reasons" before condemning this project.
    I'll call you back out then, because If you read carefully I am not condemning this show on face value. I'm just stating that shows in the past have failed for my aforementioned reasons. If this show is good and does well then more power to it. I think though that the reasoning for injecting social politics into shows is because the powers that be just assume based on whatever metrics they are following that the majority of normie white folks out there are already hooked and will go along with anything regardless, so they are trying to squeeze the lemon for those drops of juice that are left behind. Eg, all the other demographics. Todays movies and shows aren't aimed at target audiences and fans anymore, they are aimed at EVERYONE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    No-one has said that the lady with bleached hair is Sauron, at the moments best bets are saying she's some sort of preacher for the cult of Morgoth or Sauron. However that doesn't mean she isn't Sauron, at this point he was more like a malign presence on the land and took many forms to spread evil.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What political goals, are you expecting this film to be a cry for universal healthcare or lower taxes or something?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sorry what are the "explicitly stated" gender relations of Numenor in the Second Age, where are they written? I can make suppositions based on how elvish society is organised and the fact Numenoreans are "high men" who are elevated close to the Eldar in nature but I don't know anything concrete.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You should at least read a little more carefully. The "knights" are not "knights" in a feudal sense but "knights" in a "special warrior class" sense, the fealty isn't to Denethor as liege-lord it is too Gondor as a land. These make Gondor very different to feudal Europe. Also the Hobbit's name isn't Pippin, it's Razar. Pippin is the translation from Westron to Old English.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They're obviously making it for old fans (by which I mean fans of Tolkien, not fans of internet drama and opportunistic YouTubers) and for people who may not have experienced anything related to his work, like potentially anyone born within the last 20-30 years.

    Anyone who is actually a fan of Tolkien, and especially the huge Tolkien nerds who understand the crazy amount of stuff that exists outside of the stories he wrote and published, should be happy that his work is being made relevant for a new time as that is how myths stay alive. And of course the original books and notes will always exist and a series created for a modern audience will be a platform for new fans to get into his original works.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There are dozens of examples of Jackson deviating from the books in ways that severely changed the deep lore, the characters or the overall message. Probably the most egregious thing is swapping Tolkien's message of "war is awful and terrible and really, really bad" to " war is awesome and cool if you have a big enough special effects budget." That's probably why Christopher Tolkien derided them as "action movies for 15-25 year olds."
    To me your just mincing words and messages at this point. The main overall theme and characters were all more or less respected by Peter Jackson based on Tolkiens works. I never watched those movies and though was was cool if you had a big enough budget. Big budget movie just are able to portray battles on the big screen better. If YOU think it's cool then that's on you. I was watching those movies in my late 20's to early 30's, It made me see the fight of good vs evil, and how a people can unite to drive back oppressive conquerors. I felt despair when the armies of Mordor came rumbling across the fields. I then felt pangs of relief when somehow despite all odds goodness prevailed and overcame.

    But if you wan't to go into how peter Jackson changed the LOTR or deviated then lets take a little peek.
    He shortened the beginning timeline. This is a good thing as it helped with the pacing. It still did the job but cut out some of the fluff.
    He made Aragorn a reluctant hero. Unlike the original where he was more keen to one day fight Sauron, and accepted his fate as the eventual king of Gondor.
    Tom Bombadil Being removed. This was more or less something Tolkien himself never got around to addressing from an older style format of episodic side adventures.
    Peter Jackson devised a Bond-style opening that delivered all relevant information, while simultaneously getting the viewer hooked. He managed to introduce Sauron, Elrond, Isildur, the Ring and Gollum without leaving people completely flummoxed by all the ridiculous and hard to pronounce names.
    Although the book Merry & Pippin are fairly similar in age, they're somewhat less naive and silly, than their film counterparts.
    When it came to designing the orcs and goblins of Middle Earth, Peter Jackson felt it was necessary to have very defined sub categories. Rather than just having a generic ramble of foul looking creatures throughout.

    These changes were made smartly to make the story more cinematic, NOT to inject the director or producers personal political messages into it.

  9. #2149
    Titan
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    America's Hat
    Posts
    13,905
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Damn people forgot how the witch king was defeated in his movies, Jackson was woke as hell lol. To be honest the only thing that I think is lame, is removing the fact dwarf women have beards. Oh and the abundance of buzz cuts... it looks so out of place. Rest looks fine.
    The buzzcut and fade look is another thing that irked the shit out of me about the WoT show. Do people not realize that in fantasy settings that don't have electricity, it's pretty damn difficult to have hairstyles like that? And even more so when you are a traveler spending your life on the road. Odds are you won't find a barber for weeks on end, and it'd be pretty commonplace for people to generally have longer hair, even men.

  10. #2150
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Schiedam, the Netherlands
    Posts
    3,165
    I guess I missed the point when you needed electricity for a shaving knife.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #2151
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    The costume design keeps getting worse. The (man)boobplate + painted on scale armor is exceptional. I also don't understand why they are turning Tar-Míriel into a warrior character when there is no basis for this... "fairer than silver or ivory or pearls" indeed.


    Moob armor makes me think of the Batsuit with nipples.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  12. #2152
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    Moob armor makes me think of the Batsuit with nipples.
    I mean...it's a thing. A nation at the height of its power/arrogance/decadence outfitting its soldiers with a design of armor traditionally shown being worn by "generals, emperors, and deities" doesn't seem that strange. Especially since it's pretty clear they're going for some sort of Mediterranean influence with Numenor's designs.

    They could have gone full gigachad and given them ridiculous armored codpieces.

  13. #2153
    Titan
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    America's Hat
    Posts
    13,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    Moob armor makes me think of the Batsuit with nipples.
    Pretty sure I saw a Shadiversity video where he talked about it because some weirdos were whining about boob armor in The Mandalorian on Twitter.

  14. #2154
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    I guess I missed the point when you needed electricity for a shaving knife.
    You aren't getting a perfect fade with a shaving knife lol

  15. #2155
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."

    Said an elf, to a man. Thousands of years after the fall of Numenor. Why would anyone assume that meant "he was vulnerable to women?" It could have just as easily meant that he'd die at the hands of a hobbit...or an orc...or a dwarf...or a cat.
    That's a very common trope with prophecy - something that appears to obviously read one way, but then turns out to have had some twist to it that when interpreted differently actually changes everything.

    And by the way: this ambiguity doesn't exist in many other languages, and we can be pretty sure he didn't say it in English originally. Tolkien the linguist would have been acutely aware of it, and the ambiguity of the English rendering likely exists PRECISELY in order to blur the distinction which, in the original language, probably wouldn't have been there. It makes us, the reader, all the more aware of the ways in which language tricks us, something that a linguist author no doubt would find immensely gratifying.

  16. #2156
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Schiedam, the Netherlands
    Posts
    3,165
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You aren't getting a perfect fade with a shaving knife lol
    Tell that to the old-school barber over here down town. He doesn't use electric appliances at all and seems to do fine.

    Example:
    https://www.apetogentleman.com/scissor-fade-haircuts/
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  17. #2157
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You aren't getting a perfect fade with a shaving knife lol
    Seems like a complete non-issue if you’re already going to accept actors with much better nutrition and dental care than most people in a similar type of environment/time period would have.

  18. #2158
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Tell that to the old-school barber over here down town. He doesn't use electric appliances at all and seems to do fine.

    Example:
    https://www.apetogentleman.com/scissor-fade-haircuts/
    scissors are different from a shaving knife

  19. #2159
    Scissors have existed for thousands of years.

  20. #2160
    I don't care about the feasibility of buzzcuts in a fantasy universe myself, but I do find it a bit at odds with said universe. I associate Tolkien elves with long, flowing hairstyles, not something you usually find on modern military personnel.

    It's the same with the armor. Some of it is totally fine or even good, but then you get the bit that just sticks out as odd or bad looking. So the overall aesthetic doesn't win me over less due to being just trash, and more due to its inconsistency.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •