1. #2621
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Correct! The issue is that VERY VERY FEW VOCAL (caps so you understand how few you are) people think a browner skin color makes the story, acting, immersion and everything around it null and invalid. Which speaks for it self.
    Yes, it does when they are forced inserted in a population which have no reason whatsoever to have PoC. And I bet they won't even make the effort to explain why we have PoC in a white population. Btw, where are the asian or the latino ? I thought they wanted to make that serie looks like New York City ? (Which is also the issue in fact as it is not as Tolkien wrote it).

  2. #2622
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, it does when they are forced inserted in a population which have no reason whatsoever to have PoC. And I bet they won't even make the effort to explain why we have PoC in a white population. Btw, where are the asian or the latino ? I thought they wanted to make that serie looks like New York City ? (Which is also the issue in fact as it is not as Tolkien wrote it).
    Why would they need to adress poc characters?

    When you see a black guy on the streets, do you walk up to them and ask them why they’re here?

  3. #2623
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, it does when they are forced inserted in a population which have no reason whatsoever to have PoC. And I bet they won't even make the effort to explain why we have PoC in a white population.
    And the racists wonder why I call them racist.

    Elf =/= white. Dwarf =/= white. Numenorean =/= white. Fucking deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Btw, where are the asian or the latino ? I thought they wanted to make that serie looks like New York City ? (Which is also the issue in fact as it is not as Tolkien wrote it).
    Ismael Enrique Cruz Cordova. That's the name of the black guy playing the elf. Congratulations. You played yourself.

  4. #2624
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Why would they need to adress poc characters?

    When you see a black guy on the streets, do you walk up to them and ask them why they’re here?
    Because we are in the Middle Earth and people do not travel as we do in our world ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    And the racists wonder why I call them racist.

    Elf =/= white. Dwarf =/= white. Numenorean =/= white. Fucking deal with it.



    Ismael Enrique Cruz Cordova. That's the name of the black guy playing the elf. Congratulations. You played yourself.
    Again, slandering. Do you know to not do that ? Or do you lack the cognitive capacity to not do that ?

    So he is playing a black elf while being latino ? So that's acceptable ? Talk about double standards.

    The setting is based around white population. Sorry to break it to you. You want PoC everywhere ? Make your own setting or make an effort to use one of the PoC population of the Middle Earth.
    Last edited by Specialka; 2022-08-11 at 07:08 AM.

  5. #2625
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    And the racists wonder why I call them racist.

    Elf =/= white. Dwarf =/= white. Numenorean =/= white. Fucking deal with it.



    Ismael Enrique Cruz Cordova. That's the name of the black guy playing the elf. Congratulations. You played yourself.
    Congratulations! You obviously followed this instructional video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHSVjmO4iJY

  6. #2626
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because we are in the Middle Earth and people do not travel as we do in our world ?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Again, slandering. Do you know to not do that ? Or do you lack the cognitive capacity to not do that ?

    So he is playing a black elf while being latino ? So that's acceptable ? Talk about double standards.

    The setting is based around white population. Sorry to break it to you. You want PoC everywhere ? Make your own setting or make an effort to use one of the PoC population of the Middle Earth.
    You are certainly very focussed on race...

    What makes you think people in middle earth don't travel? The most major books published by Tolkien (Hobbit and LotR) are about travelling. Just because Tolkien didn't describe the story of a Harad family fleeing the dark lords influence in Harad and settling in Gondor doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.

    Remember it's a fictional world, as much as you may want it to be real. Anything you can accept, is alright. The fact it's easier for you to accept dragons than black elves is telling.

  7. #2627
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    You are certainly very focussed on race...

    What makes you think people in middle earth don't travel? The most major books published by Tolkien (Hobbit and LotR) are about travelling. Just because Tolkien didn't describe the story of a Harad family fleeing the dark lords influence in Harad and settling in Gondor doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.

    Remember it's a fictional world, as much as you may want it to be real. Anything you can accept, is alright. The fact it's easier for you to accept dragons than black elves is telling.
    Telling nothing but in your sick head.

    They do not travel as much as we do in the modern world. In the middle age, people rarely moved around their town.

    And I perfectly accept a black elf if you give me a good reason why there is a black elf (or more) in a population of white elf. Same goes for the black princess of a white people. Good luck with that.

    Infracted for flaming.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2022-08-11 at 01:21 PM.

  8. #2628
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, it does when they are forced inserted in a population which have no reason whatsoever to have PoC. And I bet they won't even make the effort to explain why we have PoC in a white population. Btw, where are the asian or the latino ? I thought they wanted to make that serie looks like New York City ? (Which is also the issue in fact as it is not as Tolkien wrote it).
    Ah, the resident racist wants to go another round. Planting that foot straight in your mouth every time you post, huh?

    Looks like New York City? Apparently unaware that there is diversity in Europe and almost every cast member is British.

    Hair color and skin color variations are both simply genetic mutations that affect melanin, but I doubt you'd throw a bitch fit about dwarves or hobbits with a range of hair colors. See one with darker skin though and now an explanation is necessary.

    Tolkien made it a point to say that Middle-earth doesn't correspond with a Europe from any particular time in our history so really no reason not to allow the diversity of modern Europe to be present.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-11 at 08:13 AM.

  9. #2629
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Ah, the resident racist wants to go another round. Planting that foot straight in your mouth every time you post, huh?

    Looks like New York City? Apparently unaware that there is diversity in Europe and almost every cast member is British.

    Hair color and skin color variations are both simply genetic mutations that affect melanin, but I doubt you'd throw a bitch fit about dwarves or hobbits with a range of hair colors. See one with darker skin though and now an explanation is necessary.
    More slandering and still no reasonable explanation. Are not the showrunners american ? Hence it would not be surprising that they would want to emulate american society in their production. That is what americans do.

  10. #2630
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    More slandering and still no reasonable explanation. Are not the showrunners american ? Hence it would not be surprising that they would want to emulate american society in their production. That is what americans do.
    Well, by hiring a bunch of Brits they succeeded in emulating British society. So yeah, guess you're wrong on that one, too.

    No explanation is needed. Different hair colors, different skin colors. Neither detracts from the story for anyone other than people who are obsessed with racial purity (something Tolkien explicitly was against).
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-11 at 08:20 AM.

  11. #2631
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well, by hiring a bunch of Brits they succeeded in emulating British society. So yeah, guess you're wrong on that one, too.

    No explanation is needed. Different hair colors, different skin colors. Neither detracts from the story for anyone other than people who are obsessed with racial purity (something Tolkien explicitly was against).
    Obviously. Always the easier way. No need for thinking, logic or reasoning that way Keep up the good work

  12. #2632
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Obviously. Always the easier way. No need for thinking, logic or reasoning that way Keep up the good work
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world

  13. #2633
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world without any good reason (because the people they are inserted into are white) nor explaination. Fixed.

  14. #2634
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world without any good reason (because the people they are inserted into are white) nor explaination. Fixed.
    I appreciate you admitting you have a simple little mind, but again the "good reason" is that Tolkien left the world he created vague enough for that diversity to exist (while also being specific about it not being all white).

    When interviewed for the Daily Telegraph Magazine in 1968 he was specifically asked if Middle-earth corresponded to Nordic Europe. Nordic Europe being the Northwestern and Northern parts of Europe, encompassing peoples such as Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, Northern French, and Celts, and Nordicism being the idea that these peoples, and by extension the white race, was superior and sacred. Tolkien wholeheartedly denied these ideas and his response was as follows:

    Not Nordic, please! A word I personally dislike; it is associated, though of French origin, with racialist theories. Geographically Northern is usually better. But examination will show that even this is inapplicable (geographically or spiritually) to 'Middle-earth'. This is an old word, not invented by me, as reference to a dictionary such as the Shorter Oxford will show. It meant the habitable lands of our world, set amid the surrounding Ocean. The action of the story takes place in the North-west of 'Middle-earth', equivalent in latitude to the coastlands of Europe and the north shores of the Mediterranean. But this is not a purely 'Nordic' area in any sense.
    Not only did Tolkien reject the idea that the North-west of Middle-earth (where all these stories take place) was equivalent to white Northern Europe, he also didn't specify the skin color of dwarves (at all), the only reference he made to hobbit skin tone was that Harfoots (the most common type of hobbit) were "browner of skin" than Stoors and Fallohides, and Numenorians were culturally most similar to ancient Egyptians (a people that encompassed a variety of skin tones).

    The idea that all these races and peoples were white is purely assumption based on Tolkien's descriptions of specific people ONLY. There were a lot of people and subgroups of people that Tolkien never gave detailed descriptions of, and he made it crystal clear that Middle-earth (from Hobbiton to the Mouth of Anduin) was not spiritually, geographically, or culturally the equivalent of white Northern Europe.

    But yeah, you keep fighting the good fight for the pure white, northern European Middle-earth that Tolkien expressly said was not a thing.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-08-11 at 09:06 AM.

  15. #2635
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I appreciate you admitting you have a simple little mind, but again the "good reason" is that Tolkien left the world he created vague enough for that diversity to exist (while also being specific about it not being all white).

    When interviewed for the Daily Telegraph Magazine in 1968 he was specifically asked if Middle-earth corresponded to Nordic Europe. Nordic Europe being the Northwestern and Northern parts of Europe, encompassing peoples such as Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Scandinavian, Northern French, and Celts, and Nordicism being the idea that these peoples, and by extension the white race, was superior and sacred. Tolkien wholeheartedly denied these ideas and his response was as follows:



    Not only did Tolkien reject the idea that the North-west of Middle-earth (where all these stories take place) was equivalent to white Northern Europe, he also didn't specify the skin color of dwarves (at all), the only reference he made to hobbit skin tone was that Harfoots (the most common type of hobbit) were "browner of skin" than Stoors and Fallohides, and Numenorians were culturally most similar to ancient Egyptians (a people that encompassed a variety of skin tones).

    The idea that all these races and peoples were white is purely assumption based on Tolkien's descriptions of specific people ONLY. There were a lot of people and subgroups of people that Tolkien never gave detailed descriptions of, and he made it crystal clear that Middle-earth (from Hobbiton to the Mouth of Anduin) was not spiritually, geographically, or culturally the equivalent of white Northern Europe.

    But yeah, you keep fighting the good fight for the pure white, northern European Middle-earth that Tolkien expressly said was not a thing.
    Not that I admit anything . Rather correcting thing so you do not pass for someone dishonest intellectualy. Which you obviously are .

  16. #2636
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Says the guy whose simple little mind can't wrap itself around dark skinned people appearing in a fantasy world without any good reason (because the people they are inserted into are white) nor explaination. Fixed.
    I mean in existing fantasy with different cultures and beliefs it's rather jarring. This isn't a new IP but an already established story. It is weird to see mixed cultures in settings like this.

    The warning sign isn't that they are doing this mind you. Rather it is because they are making a big deal about doing this and that has been the red flag something is gonna be shit for the past decade.

    Woman and minorities being highlighted usually signals the production is going to be shit. There are some hard sought out exceptions to this but they are just that exceptions.

    If amazon had faith in this they would be promoting the story behind it. Instead it looks like they are repeating the missteps from a wheel of time. I will give it s chance I work from a remote location and at times rely on amazon prime for groceries of all things. They have my money already but I doubt its gonna be good.

  17. #2637
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I mean in existing fantasy with different cultures and beliefs it's rather jarring. This isn't a new IP but an already established story. It is weird to see mixed cultures in settings like this.

    The warning sign isn't that they are doing this mind you. Rather it is because they are making a big deal about doing this and that has been the red flag something is gonna be shit for the past decade.

    Woman and minorities being highlighted usually signals the production is going to be shit. There are some hard sought out exceptions to this but they are just that exceptions.

    If amazon had faith in this they would be promoting the story behind it. Instead it looks like they are repeating the missteps from a wheel of time. I will give it s chance I work from a remote location and at times rely on amazon prime for groceries of all things. They have my money already but I doubt its gonna be good.
    I am totally on board with that as well.

  18. #2638
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I am totally on board with that as well.
    Not surprised that you are on board with the idea that women and minorities don't belong in media, and if they are everything "they" touch is going to be shit.

  19. #2639
    Quote Originally Posted by Nask View Post
    Not surprised that you are on board with the idea that women and minorities don't belong in media, and if they are everything "they" touch is going to be shit.
    Not surprising you do not understand what is being said.

  20. #2640
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not surprising you do not understand what is being said.
    I guess you are now going to say that highlighting means something other than what the meaning is? Like, highlighting main actor in adverts is not that? Or actors going to journalist for Q&A is not that?
    Last edited by Nask; 2022-08-11 at 12:46 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •