1. #301
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's only in reference to the nine. Galadriel's temptation is strictly from the One Ring, which is all Sauron. And that's why neither her nor Gandalf wanted it.

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    Think on what happened to the dwarves.
    It's in reference to all of the Rings of Power. That's why the Elves took off their rings when they perceived the power of the One Ring, when Sauron put it on his finger:

    And while he [Sauron] wore the One Ring he could perceive all the things that were done by means of the lesser rings, and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore them.

    But the Elves were not so lightly to be caught. As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and perceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. Then in anger and in fear they took off their rings.

    - The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
    When the One Ring was lost, the Elves used their rings again to preserve what was left of their kingdoms. Well, Círdan gave his to Gandalf. Galadriel explains this dilemma to Frodo. If he fails in his quest, they are doomed. If he succeeds, they are doomed, because the Three will lose all their powers and they will have to leave Middle Earth or be reduced to lingering spirits in caves.

    Sauron intended the Seven to do more or less what the Nine did to Men. But the Dwarves were innately resistant to control. The Seven just made them exceedingly greedy, but brought ruin upon them just the same. Which was good for Sauron too.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  2. #302
    The Unstoppable Force RobertoCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    I know he put his power into the one ring, but did he put it into the others as well? They say he never actually touched the three rings.
    The rings are connected to each other. I remember reading the 3 given to the elves were the next most important to the one ring and were more "powerful" than the other rings. It makes sense as the elves were the biggest threat.

    Sauron is a master manipulater. His plan was to take over middle earth by turning the powerful races to his side. The dwarfs were innately defensive to mind control but went semi mad with the 7 rings and dug themselves a balrog shaped hole in moria. The elves hid thier rings after sensing its true nature and the 9 obviously worked like a treat on men and turned them into loyal slaves the nazgul
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The rings are connected to each other. I remember reading the 3 given to the elves were the next most important to the one ring and were more "powerful" than the other rings. It makes sense as the elves were the biggest threat.

    Sauron is a master manipulater. His plan was to take over middle earth by turning the powerful races to his side. The dwarfs were innately defensive to mind control but went semi mad with the 7 rings and dug themselves a balrog shaped hole in moria. The elves hid thier rings after sensing its true nature and the 9 obviously worked like a treat on men and turned them into loyal slaves the nazgul
    Sure, but I'm pretty sure that it's more that he put his power into the one ring, not that he put it into the others.

  4. #304
    The Unstoppable Force RobertoCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Sure, but I'm pretty sure that it's more that he put his power into the one ring, not that he put it into the others.
    Perhaps. I know he wanted them back when he realised the elves were not falling for it. No reason to want them back if they're just lumps of metal
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    It's in reference to all of the Rings of Power. That's why the Elves took off their rings when they perceived the power of the One Ring, when Sauron put it on his finger:
    When the One Ring was lost, the Elves used their rings again to preserve what was left of their kingdoms. Well, Círdan gave his to Gandalf. Galadriel explains this dilemma to Frodo. If he fails in his quest, they are doomed. If he succeeds, they are doomed, because the Three will lose all their powers and they will have to leave Middle Earth or be reduced to lingering spirits in caves.
    Sauron intended the Seven to do more or less what the Nine did to Men. But the Dwarves were innately resistant to control. The Seven just made them exceedingly greedy, but brought ruin upon them just the same. Which was good for Sauron too.
    OK I stand corrected...and loving the quote.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    If you can't get Cate Blanchett to do the intro then don't try a cheap knock off version of it. Heck, why use Galadriel at all? There are plenty of others who lorewise would work just as well. Sauron for instance.

    If you are worried about the direction of the show, then this probably doesn't inspire you at all.

    “It’s about the early days of the Shire and of Tolkien’s environment, so we’re an indigenous population of Harfoots, we’re hobbits but we’re called Harfoots. We’re multi-cultural, we’re a tribe not a race, so there are Black, Asian and brown, even Maori types within it."
    What the literal fuck rofl?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sucralose View Post
    What I want to know is how major name brands get mangled but books like good omens get an almost perfect tv series. You would think it would be smaller properties that would bend more to the "creative" writing team.
    Because the author of Good Omens is alive and that it's a smaller property means that there is less oversight on him. Kind of worried about season 2 since it sounds like it's going to be much higher budget so we will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Yea - no, bad writing has existed in tv and movies since the first ones were made. You don't need anything but people bad at writing - no matter their agenda, education, age, or time period.

    Pandering exists because humans exist. Nothing to do with woke-ness.

    Your statement is just silly. So full of your own bias to the point that you're ignoring reality. Bad tv and writing exist - no agenda needed or required.

    But it is correct to say - the better the writing, the less you'll realize *any* agenda. But good writing like that, on tv and movies? THAT is a rare beast indeed.





    Maybe ya'll aren't old enough to remember - but people DID have a problem with Eowyn killing the witch-king in the movie. Even though it was 'true to source'. I very much remember the misogynist rage about that scene and trying to claim 'feminists' were messing up their Tolkien or whatever they were claiming. Just as stupid as it is now - but yea, people did complain.

    (and sorry I don't know how to make it multi-quote multiple sources in a better format - that 'mulit quote button' at the bottom of posts doesn't seem to do anything lol)
    Didn't happen. If you are going to claim something that outlandish provide sources. I very much remember the LoTR movies and especially Return had amazingly positive reception.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Perhaps. I know he wanted them back when he realised the elves were not falling for it. No reason to want them back if they're just lumps of metal
    No - it's that his ring allowed him to see what the other ringbearers were doing and influence them. So if the elves were not falling for it, he probably wanted to give the rings to others who would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    What the literal fuck rofl?

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    Because the author of Good Omens is alive and that it's a smaller property means that there is less oversight on him. Kind of worried about season 2 since it sounds like it's going to be much higher budget so we will see.

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    Didn't happen. If you are going to claim something that outlandish provide sources. I very much remember the LoTR movies and especially Return had amazingly positive reception.
    Agreed that this didn't happen - particularly the "messing up their Tolkien" bit - given that scene is basically exactly what happens in the book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    If you can't get Cate Blanchett to do the intro then don't try a cheap knock off version of it. Heck, why use Galadriel at all? There are plenty of others who lorewise would work just as well. Sauron for instance.

    If you are worried about the direction of the show, then this probably doesn't inspire you at all.

    “It’s about the early days of the Shire and of Tolkien’s environment, so we’re an indigenous population of Harfoots, we’re hobbits but we’re called Harfoots. We’re multi-cultural, we’re a tribe not a race, so there are Black, Asian and brown, even Maori types within it."
    I'm much more worried that they're going to try to shoehorn the hobbits into stories where they don't belong. Hobbits aren't really involved in any of Tolkien's stories before Gollum.

  8. #308
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    So this show going to go the same route as the Middle Earth games, no real lore to go on so there'll be alot of creative liberty :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-01-23 at 11:16 AM.
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    If you can't get Cate Blanchett to do the intro then don't try a cheap knock off version of it. Heck, why use Galadriel at all? There are plenty of others who lorewise would work just as well. Sauron for instance.

    If you are worried about the direction of the show, then this probably doesn't inspire you at all.

    “It’s about the early days of the Shire and of Tolkien’s environment, so we’re an indigenous population of Harfoots, we’re hobbits but we’re called Harfoots. We’re multi-cultural, we’re a tribe not a race, so there are Black, Asian and brown, even Maori types within it."
    That's so nonsensical it sounds like some garbage fanfiction written by the same Tumblr bloggers who try and make Frodo and Sam gay. You can't be multi-ethnic and indigenous, especially when Hobbits aren't indigenous to the Shire either and don't appear until 400 years after the Second Age.

  10. #310
    Well, I still remain cautiously optimistic. We really need to finally see the trailer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
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  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    I would just wish that the woke crowd would make tv/games/whatever on original material that is made as woke from the beginning, instead of enforcing "wokeness" on something that never was intended to be woke.

    So I hope that Amazon will let LotR be how it was made originally and let the wokes make their own woke material and let the market sort out what people want.
    Maybe there is room for both. And that would be true diversity.
    That would kinda defeat the purpose though. A lot of this woke stuff is added with something resembling revenge in mind. To take something from a group of people you despise, something they love and then pervert it into something they hate. That's why all your favorite franchises are targeted and not the ones you don't care about.

    If they were to go after something like Frozen, Animal Crossing or The Hunger Games the demographic that they want to hurt wouldn't care so they don't do that. G.I. Joe, Halo and the Terminator franchises on the other hand hit the sweet spot perfectly for example.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Well, I still remain cautiously optimistic. We really need to finally see the trailer.
    What exactly are you hoping for? We already know from the words of the producers and the casting reveals that it's not going to be faithful to Tolkien's works.


  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    I would just wish that the woke crowd would make tv/games/whatever on original material that is made as woke from the beginning, instead of enforcing "wokeness" on something that never was intended to be woke.

    So I hope that Amazon will let LotR be how it was made originally and let the wokes make their own woke material and let the market sort out what people want.
    Maybe there is room for both. And that would be true diversity.
    They do, and it's failed more often than it's been successful. And it's not because the premise is bad, it's almost always due to terrible story writing, character building and dialogue. I'm very much of the mind that you can have great diverse shows that check boxes, but the problem is that is as far as the creators will go because they don't have the creative capacity to pull off something compelling. It's also pretty obnoxious when all the woke reboots are entirely based off of identity politics or characters being portrayed as blatantly Mary Sue/Gary Stu types with zero flaws.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    What exactly are you hoping for? We already know from the words of the producers and the casting reveals that it's not going to be faithful to Tolkien's works.
    Faithful is a stretchable thing, I care for entertainment. As long as it's not dumb and makes sense it can be good, even great.
    Also I gotta admit I am until now not entirely sure WTF was/is the whole M&M rebranding thing.
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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Maybe ya'll aren't old enough to remember - but people DID have a problem with Eowyn killing the witch-king in the movie. Even though it was 'true to source'. I very much remember the misogynist rage about that scene and trying to claim 'feminists' were messing up their Tolkien or whatever they were claiming. Just as stupid as it is now - but yea, people did complain.
    Well yeah I do remember complants about the scene as well. Not because of some sexism-issues or the sort. Primarily because there were lot of bookreaders who were disappointed they nerfed Witch-King's speech to Eowyn to the ground or exclusion of Gandalf-Witch King face-off prior (which was not part of theatrical release), cutting his menacing presence by a lot
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  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Well yeah I do remember complants about the scene as well. Not because of some sexism-issues or the sort. Primarily because there were lot of bookreaders who were disappointed they nerfed Witch-King's speech to Eowyn to the ground or exclusion of Gandalf-Witch King face-off prior (which was not part of theatrical release), cutting his menacing presence by a lot
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I remember a lot of people rolling their eyes at “no man”…
    Yes - at the time, there were/are the more "hardcore" book reading fans who were disappointed by the scene, and all the parts in the movies that 'changed' from the lore as well. You'll even find people who "Hate" it as an adaptation and feel its on the same level as WoT, basically. And the complaints from the 'hardcore book lovers' were certainly a more credible 'critique' if you will, than anyone trying to bitch about it being a woman. But there WERE also those types of people. There are ALWAYS those types of people!

    But I'm laughing at people on an internet forum, asking me to "provide evidence" from a 20 year old movie, before they'll 'agree' that there was any 'hubub' about Eowyn being a woman, who killed the Witch King. Really? How important to you think this forum thread is to my life? Do you really think I just made up that there was and am lying? C'mon now.

    Because if you think anti-feminism or 'woke bitching' or whatever you want to label this sort of stupid complaining (because that's all it is) was only invented with the "Me Too" movement, then your ignorance is showing. Because this sort of bitching, about the feminization of roles on tv, or media, or hollywood, or jobs, or politics, or well -anything - has existed since we've had male and female. Did anyone give these people merit 20 years ago? - No not really. And we shouldn't be doing it now, either. But neither did we have the explosive/huge reactions throughout media to 'things said on the internet' the way we do now. All of those here who do remember when the LOTR movies came out will also acknowledge that - whatever people's reactions then were on the internet - it was much less 'covered' or cared about, in general.

    It was much easier to avoid any article or opinion that expressed such complaints about the movies (or any movie). You could easily, not even trying hard, walk into every movie 'blind' from the opinion's of others. If someone griped on twitter, or on reddit, or some 'fandom forum' corner - it wasn't covered and echoed by 2342 youtube and twitch streamers. It didn't make the news - anywhere. And most of the general public would have zippo knowledge about, much less care, 'what a bunch of nerds' argued about online, about LOTR movies (and those were seen as the only people arguing about this stuff). A MUCH DIFFERENT reality we exist in now - for good or bad - where if someone tweets a 'too woke' meme, about a movie it's suddenly not only somehow covered on 'legit' news stations, but every streamer and their brother looking to cash in on 'drama' makes a 20 minute manifesto about it and how its ruining modern society and their lives. And suddenly the opinions by a small minority are known mainstream and blasted to everyone.

    The 'outrage' seems a MUCH bigger deal and much easier to be 'known' these days, than it was back then. So that's why no - i'm not wasting my time looking for some 'source' 20+ years after the fact to 'prove' some people had a problem with a female killing the witch king. Believe me or not - but it WAS something people bitched about. Sure - stupid bassackwards people - but I think that now about everyone who bitches about 'too woke' bullshit - including people on this forum. I consider them on the same level as those people bitching that a women killed the witch king. I never said any of these complaints should get merit or attention - but people DID complain. Course, just because now its 'louder' doesn't mean it should get the merit or attention anymore than it did back then - but it does so here we are.

    But no, NONE of the complaining, about LOTR, or even about the 2nd Star Wars Trilogy (which would be the bigger movies people bitched about, and got more traction, for sure lol), reached the level of online-coverage and attention that the same 'point' would get /now/ about a current movie. Its just a different reality for Hollywood and how we consume it - for good or bad.

    But I can certainly believe that others here 'never heard' about that sort of bitching. I only 'read' about it from what little coverage of 'online corners' I was bouncing around at the time (no one site but I've been on online forums and BBSs since 1998) and I gave it all the merit it deserved - which was rolling my eyes at idiot misogynistic nerds and moved on. Just like I do now. But it DID exist, I didn't just make it up to give myself online peen or something. And I'm also not short-sighted enough to think just because I didn't 'see' something 20 years ago online myself, it must never have existed. Yea, that's sound logic.

    (Guess what - if a female did it - somewhere, there's a man bitching it wasn't a man. And none of it deserves any attention, no matter what dressing they decorate it with.)
    Last edited by Koriani; 2022-01-25 at 11:03 PM.
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  17. #317
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    Last edited by Orby; 2022-02-03 at 03:54 PM.
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  18. #318
    Oh snap--Dwarves!!!
    Pretty excited they'll have some spotlight.

  19. #319
    I really hope they don't MCU type of humour in this show. You know, the type which every movie nowdays loves to do. Where when there's a serious scene and some retard cracks a dumb joke for no reason at all.

  20. #320
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