Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[exochaft]

There are so many reasons I havent included because its never just one. there's also cos the fandom is racist as fuck, but that's the obvious go to. Let's not forget that the lead up to the show featured grifter channels constantly posting Galadriel, the black elf and the black dwarf in the thumbnail, so they knew what their main focus was on.

If you followed all the Amazon sponsored media surrounding the launch of the series for the past couple months... they're the ones that were constantly bringing up diversity/representation/etc. It's only natural to respond to what the showrunners are saying about the show. Furthermore, when your main message is heavily identity politics when advertising a show instead of what actually should matter in a show, that's generally a sign that they're not confident in their product. The current game plan that Disney/Amazon/etc. like to play is to get ahead of a release (sometimes months in advance) and say that their shows will get hate because of racism/bigotry/etc., and when their shows get released and are terrible even without considering identity politics they just deflect to what they said prior. Again, it's a marketing tactic that gets eaten up by low information news consumers, and it's not reflective of reality.

The so-called 'grifters' tended to pretty much call attention to what Amazon and the showrunners were calling attention to, can't really blame them for that. If you actually listened to what the so-called 'grifters' were saying, the general concern was that the show runners are likely focusing on all the wrong things and that the story/show will likely be terrible, not "this show will be terrible because it has representation regardless of the story/presentation!" Couple of them had inside access to the details of the first season content and were warning about what was to come... and they were 100% on the mark so far, down to the tiny details in each episode.

Anyways, the show feels like it's a step above CW shows with an elevated budget in most cases. The writing is still awful, especially Galadriel being pretty insufferable and overpowered as hell, but much of the characterization and dialogue across the board is just poor. Furthermore, the writing is littered with the writers trying to sound auspicious and thought-provoking, when it's just nonsensical ramblings, non sequitur statements, or just circular logic. I've heard it described as the not-Hobbits being like community theatre, and that's pretty accurate. Elves just come off as cosplaying humans versus what Peter Jackson executed and how Tolkien describes elves and their presence. Only thing that comes off good is some of the background views and occasionally the attention to detail with props. This isn't even going into the issues concerning lore deviations and timeline issues, editing, structure, etc.

While I could go into individual scenes to go point-by-point, the overall point is that the show is shaping up to be pretty underwhelming at best. If the show was completely divorced from the Tolkien lore, it'd be just a generic fantasy show that would probably not garner much attention given its quality thus far. If this is the best Amazon can put forward with a billion dollar budget for introducing a flagship series, there's bound to be some panicking.

[Heathy]

seems pretty decent, its an interesting time period to see, I'm not enough of a mega Tolkien fan to know how much he actually wrote about this era that isn't just cliff notes. guessing a large part of this is fan fiction but they know where its going so its a matter of filling in the gaps. the ring wraiths don't exist yet so I guess it'll cover the fall of angmar among other things. shadow of war and mordor were interesting for the exposition spouting wraith. so its more of that maybe. I think the only flaw with shows like this is that ultimately you know where its going. not that it can't shock and awe but you know certain characters have full plot armor.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lol nerdrotic calls galadriel for guyladriel, brilliant

[s_bushido]

How come HoDragons didn't try to appeal to all "cultures"?

What "appealing to cultures" have they done so far, exactly.

[Orby]

Anyways, the show feels like it's a step above CW shows with an elevated budget in most cases. The writing is still awful, especially Galadriel being pretty insufferable and overpowered as hell, but much of the characterization and dialogue across the board is just poor. Furthermore, the writing is littered with the writers trying to sound auspicious and thought-provoking, when it's just nonsensical ramblings, non sequitur statements, or just circular logic. I've heard it described as the not-Hobbits being like community theatre, and that's pretty accurate. Elves just come off as cosplaying humans versus what Peter Jackson executed and how Tolkien describes elves and their presence. Only thing that comes off good is some of the background views and occasionally the attention to detail with props. This isn't even going into the issues concerning lore deviations and timeline issues, editing, structure, etc.

While I could go into individual scenes to go point-by-point, the overall point is that the show is shaping up to be pretty underwhelming at best. If the show was completely divorced from the Tolkien lore, it'd be just a generic fantasy show that would probably not garner much attention given its quality thus far. If this is the best Amazon can put forward with a billion dollar budget for introducing a flagship series, there's bound to be some panicking.

I am not going to say the show is perfect its not, and yea the Galadriel scenes are the worst part of the show for me too, which is worrying as the story revolves around her, I also have an issue with pacing in both that it does go past too fast while at the same time not getting anything done either, but I tend to like the show, I loved the score, I loved the backdrops and the sweeping visuals and the set designs, the dwarfs were great and as much as I hated the short haired elves interpretation I did kind of forget about it as the show got going, and I really like the guy who plays Elrond here.

And yes there is a lot (ALOT) of liberties taken in this show, but as someone who knows the books exists and will still exist after this show, I do not care too much because I still enjoy the show so far. But who knows maybe by the end of episode 8 I may change my mind, but I don't think the show is bad or as bad as a lot of people are making out... so far. Yes the show is very fan fiction, but that doesn't bother me too much.

also I did not see the cast call meetings that was intended for PR, journalists, and shareholders, and if you did then you are probably setting yourself up to hate it.

[Romanthony]

Whoever the homeless meteor guy is I don't want to find out. Even if he disappears into thin air and isn't mentioned again it would still be better for the series

I can almost 99% say its gonna be Gandalf.

Also I kinda hate, how Amazons Responce to negative responces.

"Your racist you dont like black Dwarves"
"Your sexist, You dont like Galaderial being a powerful warrior"
"Your Homophoic, you dont like Elrdond being gay"

Like what if a show is bad, because its bad? I swear sometimes they just hire these actors, so they can use them as a shield "Oh you dont like our show must be racist"

[Niwes]

Was so hyped for this series but once i saw the bad imdb ratings i wont even give it a chance. I wont watch anything below 8.5 rating.

lol. wow, an 8.5 imdb rating. well, so you will not watch that much stuff in your life.

and you will watch never some comedy (they are always underrated) and you will watch A LOT of super heroes and marvel stuff (they are always overrated).

to use some imdb rating as an absolute criterium is imo, after being a cineast since more than 30 years, the most stupid thing one can do. using imdb ratings in some relative relations to rotten tomatoes or metacritic is fine. but using imdb‘s absolute rating values as some breakpoints to rate stuff for your own taste… „good luck“ (to quote Morgan Freeman here, from The Dark Knight).

[Orby]

I can almost 99% say its gonna be Gandalf.

Also I kinda hate, how Amazons Responce to negative responces.

"Your racist you dont like black Dwarves"
"Your sexist, You dont like Galaderial being a powerful warrior"
"Your Homophoic, you dont like Elrdond being gay"

Like what if a show is bad, because its bad? I swear sometimes they just hire these actors, so they can use them as a shield "Oh you dont like our show must be racist"

Well if the show is bad for being bad its not going to fit those things you mentioned is it? No one is going to call you any of those things if you say the pacing is bad or the scenes with Galadriel are not that interesting. Or that it doesn't feel very Tolkien that the show feels off or the acting is bad in places. :P

But if you are going around saying 'I don't want black dwarfs or elves in my middle earth', and that's your only cause of concern and that makes up the main point or your argument, then yea, I can see that you may have some underlining issues you may need to get checked out on. A black elf and a black dwarf doesn't a bad film make. and you can have those concerns, I wont call you racist for that, but when its your main concern and your only concern, then we have issues. Becuase I think the actress who played Princess Disa did an Amazing job. but the actress who played Galadriel wasnt that great. am I sexist that I liked one and not the other. Its all about context,. You are allowed to not like certain things, its your approach to it that matters. :P

[Ihavewaffles]

I can almost 99% say its gonna be Gandalf.

Also I kinda hate, how Amazons Responce to negative responces.

"Your racist you dont like black Dwarves"
"Your sexist, You dont like Galaderial being a powerful warrior"
"Your Homophoic, you dont like Elrdond being gay"

Like what if a show is bad, because its bad? I swear sometimes they just hire these actors, so they can use them as a shield "Oh you dont like our show must be racist"

Elrond is that? I didn't notice, still odd defense on amazon's part seeing how effiminate elves are sometimes in lotr n the hobbit. I guess they can't admit their version of elrond was bad n has nothing to do with his leanings..
If he had apoeared gay in the movies, wouldn't have changed his performance, which is lacking in the show..

And Gandalf was played by a gay actor ffs, i guess amszon are scared cuz they know their show sucks...

[Romanthony]

Well if the show is bad for being bad its not going to fit those things you mentioned is it? No one is going to call you any of those things if you say the pacing is bad or the scenes with Galadriel are not that interesting. Or that it doesn't feel very Tolkien that the show feels off or the acting is bad in places. :P

But if you are going around saying 'I don't want black dwarfs or elves in my middle earth', and that's your only cause of concern and that makes up the main point or your argument, then yea, I can see that you may have some underlining issues you may need to get checked out on. A black elf and a black dwarf doesn't a bad film make. and you can have those concerns, I wont call you racist for that, but when its your main concern and your only concern, then we have issues. Becuase I think the actress who played Princess Disa did an Amazing job. but the actress who played Galadriel wasnt that great. am I sexist that I liked one and not the other. Its all about context,. You are allowed to not like certain things, its your approach to it that matters. :P

yea I agree there, Whats wrong with a show being bad because... Well its bad?
Does a black dwarf Effect the pacing issue? No
Does a black elf, effect the terrible writing? No

and yea i heard that Galadriel is very Dull in the show. That they have made her Super massive OP with Zero flaws, or conlicts a perfect character which is boring to watch.,

[Orby]

yea I agree there, Whats wrong with a show being bad because... Well its bad?
Does a black dwarf Effect the pacing issue? No
Does a black elf, effect the terrible writing? No

and yea i heard that Galadriel is very Dull in the show. That they have made her Super massive OP with Zero flaws, or conlicts a perfect character which is boring to watch.,

She isn't OP, except for the bringing down the troll on her own thing, especially seeing the rest of her team couldn't which made me think why bother bring a team in. who knows.

Her acting is more my issue. I am not even sure its her fault, at times she reminds me of the Peter Jacksons Galadriel, there are even camera shots that give me that, and other times she looks lost, it might be the directing, cos a lot of the time she just looks like she is trying to give an emotion that she cannot carry. Her moments with Elrond I really liked, but that first opening with her in the snow with her party she comes across really whiney. Then there are other time she reminds me of Winona Ryder's character from Alien: Resurrection (sorry for bring up that horrid memory)

[s_bushido]

and yea i heard that Galadriel is very Dull in the show. That they have made her Super massive OP with Zero flaws, or conlicts a perfect character which is boring to watch.,

lol... You heard that from who?

They basically tried to ship her off to Valinor because she's too much of a pain in the ass to keep around and was going to get herself and others killed if she continued down the path she was on. But someone told you she's "OP, perfect, with zero flaws" because what...she killed a troll? Please. This (in addition to the "I don't want to see black people in my pop culture products") is the sort of shit that gets """criticism""" ignored. Not because a person simply doesn't like the show.

[Thentix21]

Well if the show is bad for being bad its not going to fit those things you mentioned is it? No one is going to call you any of those things if you say the pacing is bad or the scenes with Galadriel are not that interesting. Or that it doesn't feel very Tolkien that the show feels off or the acting is bad in places. :P

But if you are going around saying 'I don't want black dwarfs or elves in my middle earth', and that's your only cause of concern and that makes up the main point or your argument, then yea, I can see that you may have some underlining issues you may need to get checked out on. A black elf and a black dwarf doesn't a bad film make. and you can have those concerns, I wont call you racist for that, but when its your main concern and your only concern, then we have issues. Becuase I think the actress who played Princess Disa did an Amazing job. but the actress who played Galadriel wasnt that great. am I sexist that I liked one and not the other. Its all about context,. You are allowed to not like certain things, its your approach to it that matters. :P

The one with underlying issues here is you. That is all you guys can do is swing the racism bat anytime someone has a legitimate concern because you can't come up with any kind of meaningful debate or rebuttal or argument. What is worse is you guys are so petty and smug in your deliveries of them as well.

No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.

No I won't actually cause they never did. Africa has a HUGE wealth of their own mythological and supernatural entities, deities, being and so on and so on. Someone could do a lot with it. And you best believe, if someone made a mythological world based on african culture and there was a white zulu warrior or something, and someone had a problem with it, id be right behind them saying they have a legitimate concern and it should not be. There should not be black dwarves or black elves, just like there should not be white zulu warriors or a white mythological person in africa in medieval time. Stop using the racism/sexism/bigotry blah blah blah crap, you are only projecting.

[Ihavewaffles]

Does a black dwarf Effect the pacing issue? No
Does a black elf, effect the terrible writing? No

Pacing is effected if something takes you out of the movie, unless u have problems with your eyes n don't realize this is supposed to be based on European mythology...then its ignorance if you are unaffected. And if its that, then u have no standards to judge anything, u are just basically a woke mushroom that will absorb anything thrown at u..

[Heathy]

too much effort is placed into believing something is more of a problem than it actually is. the idiom is mountains out of mole hills.

[s_bushido]

No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.

Until evidence is presented to the contrary, I prefer to believe that Tolkien wasn't as big a piece of shit as the people making a big deal out of someone's skin color seem to think he was.

[Gumble]

That would be perfectly fine, but elves were all created fair skinned and starbound, the dwarves could potentially be read to have more variation, but again it would be more interesting and cooler to simply have a grouping of darker dwarves, with their own distinct culture, architecture and quirks. If they took the time to set them up properly, it could be very cool! Most people are not opposed to differing skintones, they think it's strange that out of 2000 dwarves living rather isolated under ground for generations, that they would be different skin colors from each other.

Infracted.

Why was this post infracted when the person she is responding to wasn't? Are the mods at MMO Champion sexist and racist? You infracted an asian female when the white male she was responding to said way worse things about her. Does MMO Champion support sexism and racism?


As to the show, there needs to be some logical consistency to how you make changes. If a Hobbit that has Asian features came into the shire and married and had children that then looked like the biological offspring of their parents, that gives consistency. It opens up the question of "are there communities of asian looking hobbits? Can we see them and see what stories they have?"

Just throwing someone randomly in that doesn't have any logical consistency breaks immersion and makes your brain go "oh I'm watching a message from the writers, not a story".

It would be like if one of the dwarves was 6'5" and they never said anything about it.

[Daedius]

I'm hoping it's one of the the other wizards.

Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

[Adamas102]

Didn't Elrond marry Galadriel's daughter? I thought she be much older compared to him.

The actor playing Galadriel now is older than the one playing Elrond. Compare that to LotR where Cate Blanchett is 9 years younger than Hugo Weaving. Obviously for creatures that live such long life spans it’s not easy showing that on screen.

I'm espousing ethnic segregation? How about you never talk to me again? My husband is not the same ethnicity as me. Stop your disgusting mansplaining, you make me sick.

Spare me your fake outrage. I addressed exactly what you said was needed to make a fantasy world “grounded”. Your opinion comes from ignorance and prejudice. And of course all you could must up was a deflection.

[DarkAmbient]

Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.