Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[s_bushido]

No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.

Until evidence is presented to the contrary, I prefer to believe that Tolkien wasn't as big a piece of shit as the people making a big deal out of someone's skin color seem to think he was.

[Gumble]

That would be perfectly fine, but elves were all created fair skinned and starbound, the dwarves could potentially be read to have more variation, but again it would be more interesting and cooler to simply have a grouping of darker dwarves, with their own distinct culture, architecture and quirks. If they took the time to set them up properly, it could be very cool! Most people are not opposed to differing skintones, they think it's strange that out of 2000 dwarves living rather isolated under ground for generations, that they would be different skin colors from each other.

Infracted.

Why was this post infracted when the person she is responding to wasn't? Are the mods at MMO Champion sexist and racist? You infracted an asian female when the white male she was responding to said way worse things about her. Does MMO Champion support sexism and racism?


As to the show, there needs to be some logical consistency to how you make changes. If a Hobbit that has Asian features came into the shire and married and had children that then looked like the biological offspring of their parents, that gives consistency. It opens up the question of "are there communities of asian looking hobbits? Can we see them and see what stories they have?"

Just throwing someone randomly in that doesn't have any logical consistency breaks immersion and makes your brain go "oh I'm watching a message from the writers, not a story".

It would be like if one of the dwarves was 6'5" and they never said anything about it.

[Daedius]

I'm hoping it's one of the the other wizards.

Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

[Adamas102]

Didn't Elrond marry Galadriel's daughter? I thought she be much older compared to him.

The actor playing Galadriel now is older than the one playing Elrond. Compare that to LotR where Cate Blanchett is 9 years younger than Hugo Weaving. Obviously for creatures that live such long life spans it’s not easy showing that on screen.

I'm espousing ethnic segregation? How about you never talk to me again? My husband is not the same ethnicity as me. Stop your disgusting mansplaining, you make me sick.

Spare me your fake outrage. I addressed exactly what you said was needed to make a fantasy world “grounded”. Your opinion comes from ignorance and prejudice. And of course all you could must up was a deflection.

[DarkAmbient]

Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.

[Kumorii]

It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.

It already does? Anything is possible atm.

[Rennadrel]

They are getting treated differently because one was review bombed. Its not that people dislike it is the issue. Wheel of Time was disliked but wasnt review bombed. I can assume the sites problem saw a mass influx of traffic to their sites coming to downvote. I don't get the feeling Wheel of Time saw that much influx when people were upset about that show who's complaints were very similar I may add :P

Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.

[Orby]

Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

I am doubting its any. But it depends on how much they are going to change. Radagast arrived with Sauron, Gandalf arrived on his own, but I think they all arrived to middle earth by boat. I don't remember anythign about comets. :P

could be an entirely new Ainur :P

Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.

Was the cast a big complaint? I thought the cast was actually one of the less issues about the show. Everything else around it sucked lol. With that said, there were a few casting choices that kind of irked me. But that's just my expectations verses the reality :P

[Gumble]

I can tell you as the moderator of this subforum, when the first stills came out of House of the Dragon and there were black people in it, there was certainly a whole bunch of furor from posters just like you.

It was all based on nothing, btw.

Interesting. I didn't know the moderators of the forum where allowed to post like this and show their preference.

As a person from the community you are trying to protect, we don't need your protection.

As far as HoD, there may have been comments about it, but you'll notice they all stopped. Why is that? Why aren't people upset about that show vs this one? Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it? That they focused on making a good show with a good story first?


This does explain a lot about this forum though.

- - - Updated - - -

Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.

There were so, so many things on that wall.

[DarkAmbient]

It already does? Anything is possible atm.

I suppose so, lol. But the three wizards we know about didn't come to Middle Earth until well into the Third Age. The two Blue Wizards may have arrived in the Second Age, but there's only one of this guy and there's not much blue about him yet.

[Rennadrel]

I am doubting its any. But it depends on how much they are going to change. Radagast arrived with Sauron, Gandalf arrived on his own, but I think they all arrived to middle earth by boat. I don't remember anythign about comets. :P

could be an entirely new Ainur :P



Was the cast a big complaint? I thought the cast was actually one of the few issues about the show. Everything else around it sucked lol. With that said, there were a few casting choices that kind of irked me. But that's just my expectations verses the reality :P

Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.

[Gumble]

They are getting treated differently because one was review bombed. Its not that people dislike it is the issue. Wheel of Time was disliked but wasnt review bombed. I can assume the sites problem saw a mass influx of traffic to their sites coming to downvote. I don't get the feeling Wheel of Time saw that much influx when people were upset about that show who's complaints were very similar I may add :P

Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.

[Adamas102]

As far as HoD, there may have been comments about it, but you'll notice they all stopped. Why is that? Why aren't people upset about that show vs this one? Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it? That they focused on making a good show with a good story first?

There is absolutely nothing different between how these characters are handled in both shows. They simply exist and that’s it.

The fact that there are more vocal people who consider themselves fans of Tolkien’s works making a big deal about these castings (though the man would be rolling over in his grave if he could see all the racialist, white-centric bullshit these supposed “fans” are spouting about his works) has nothing to do with the show itself.

[s_bushido]

Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it?

Which part of the story so far, specifically, has been sacrificed.

[Gumble]

Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.

I loved the actor they got to play Padan Fain and thought he did a fantastic job. I didn't like how they changed his story in Fal Dara, and not seeing his desperation and corruption through the first book as he trails the boys, but the actor I felt was really good. I blame the writers for the changes to him, but by Fal Dara the show didn't resemble the book at all, so changing him too was just a drop in the bucket.

Elayne, well they took out all of Caemyln because it was too expensive to make another city (I mean their Tar Valon was so embarrassing that I can't imagine them trying to do 2 cities), so I guess not having her made sense for that. Caemyln was basically a focus on Rand, so not having it or Elayne when Rand wasn't the focus of the show does make a sad sorta sense.

I imagine the LOTR writers were surprised how much backlash they got from character changes when they probably saw the time period they were writing as fertile ground for "make up whatever you want because you don't have a book to judge it against"

[Orby]

The one with underlying issues here is you. That is all you guys can do is swing the racism bat anytime someone has a legitimate concern because you can't come up with any kind of meaningful debate or rebuttal or argument. What is worse is you guys are so petty and smug in your deliveries of them as well.

No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.

No I won't actually cause they never did. Africa has a HUGE wealth of their own mythological and supernatural entities, deities, being and so on and so on. Someone could do a lot with it. And you best believe, if someone made a mythological world based on african culture and there was a white zulu warrior or something, and someone had a problem with it, id be right behind them saying they have a legitimate concern and it should not be. There should not be black dwarves or black elves, just like there should not be white zulu warriors or a white mythological person in africa in medieval time. Stop using the racism/sexism/bigotry blah blah blah crap, you are only projecting.

Someone's very touchy, because I am not calling anyone racist who has legit criticism. In fact I have seen some negative reviews here that are completely valid. Although I have questions about the spammer on the previous page. That guy looks sus. And look even your opinions I respect it, I agree with your sentiment, about its basis and setting of middle-earth that's a legit criticism, even if I disagree with it, but for myself I just do not care about the skin colour as much as some. MY big issue is peoples' hyper fixation on that alone and not on the quality of the work. I for one, as mentioned, LOVED Sophia Nomvete role as Princess Disa in the show, and while yes the sight of a black female dwarf is very new her performance made me feel like it didn't matter.

The problem comes down to if them being a different skin colour affects your ability to enjoy the story, the acting, the sound, the cinematography, the visuals, if the answer is 'it does' then yes you may have a problem.

Food for thought though Tolkien specifically stated that Gondorians were culturally Egyptian in some ways, while their religion was very Hebrew (or is that Hebraic? I cannot remember) would we be so offended to have Gondorians be darker skinned because of this or even mixed?

Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.

My biggest complain about Padan Fain was that he looked too swarve, and not as weaselly as I imagined. :P

[Rennadrel]

Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.

GoT is only more popular because of recency bias, LOTR set the table for GoT to be successful as a TV series. But it's still the best selling book series in history, ASoIF isn't even in the same ballpark. Tolkien's work has also been immortalized in music as well. GoT will never have the long lasting cultural impact that LOTR has had and you'd be a fool to think so. His works are used as literary studies as well, which is something George R.R Martin will never have with his work.

[Orby]

Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.

Yea but WoT wasnt review bombed, I should know I have the show at 5/10 and my review wasnt removed. <checks site> Nope still there :P

[Ihavewaffles]

Thank god demonicessa is gone, was too busy trying to not see the eye cancer to think about blocking..

[PC2]

Omg I just remembered this came out and watched the first two episodes. This series is definitely scratching an itch for me. I love seeing all the artwork that relates to elves and dwarves and their civilization. I'm looking forward to seeing Galadriel in action and the creation of the special forge thing and the rings of power!