1. #3581
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I'm hoping it's one of the the other wizards.
    Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...

  2. #3582
    Quote Originally Posted by jdbond View Post
    Didn't Elrond marry Galadriel's daughter? I thought she be much older compared to him.
    The actor playing Galadriel now is older than the one playing Elrond. Compare that to LotR where Cate Blanchett is 9 years younger than Hugo Weaving. Obviously for creatures that live such long life spans it’s not easy showing that on screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    I'm espousing ethnic segregation? How about you never talk to me again? My husband is not the same ethnicity as me. Stop your disgusting mansplaining, you make me sick.
    Spare me your fake outrage. I addressed exactly what you said was needed to make a fantasy world “grounded”. Your opinion comes from ignorance and prejudice. And of course all you could must up was a deflection.

  3. #3583
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...
    It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.

  4. #3584
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.
    It already does? Anything is possible atm.
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  5. #3585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    They are getting treated differently because one was review bombed. Its not that people dislike it is the issue. Wheel of Time was disliked but wasnt review bombed. I can assume the sites problem saw a mass influx of traffic to their sites coming to downvote. I don't get the feeling Wheel of Time saw that much influx when people were upset about that show who's complaints were very similar I may add :P
    Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.

  6. #3586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Hmm... might be Radagast, the brown wizard. He was manipulating those trees...
    I am doubting its any. But it depends on how much they are going to change. Radagast arrived with Sauron, Gandalf arrived on his own, but I think they all arrived to middle earth by boat. I don't remember anythign about comets. :P

    could be an entirely new Ainur :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.
    Was the cast a big complaint? I thought the cast was actually one of the less issues about the show. Everything else around it sucked lol. With that said, there were a few casting choices that kind of irked me. But that's just my expectations verses the reality :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-04 at 12:59 PM.
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  7. #3587
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I can tell you as the moderator of this subforum, when the first stills came out of House of the Dragon and there were black people in it, there was certainly a whole bunch of furor from posters just like you.

    It was all based on nothing, btw.
    Interesting. I didn't know the moderators of the forum where allowed to post like this and show their preference.

    As a person from the community you are trying to protect, we don't need your protection.

    As far as HoD, there may have been comments about it, but you'll notice they all stopped. Why is that? Why aren't people upset about that show vs this one? Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it? That they focused on making a good show with a good story first?


    This does explain a lot about this forum though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Smaller IP, not as popular. And I think most WoT fans saw the writing on the wall when the cast was announced and Elayne was blatantly omitted from the first season.
    There were so, so many things on that wall.

  8. #3588
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It already does? Anything is possible atm.
    I suppose so, lol. But the three wizards we know about didn't come to Middle Earth until well into the Third Age. The two Blue Wizards may have arrived in the Second Age, but there's only one of this guy and there's not much blue about him yet.

  9. #3589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I am doubting its any. But it depends on how much they are going to change. Radagast arrived with Sauron, Gandalf arrived on his own, but I think they all arrived to middle earth by boat. I don't remember anythign about comets. :P

    could be an entirely new Ainur :P



    Was the cast a big complaint? I thought the cast was actually one of the few issues about the show. Everything else around it sucked lol. With that said, there were a few casting choices that kind of irked me. But that's just my expectations verses the reality :P
    Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.

  10. #3590
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    They are getting treated differently because one was review bombed. Its not that people dislike it is the issue. Wheel of Time was disliked but wasnt review bombed. I can assume the sites problem saw a mass influx of traffic to their sites coming to downvote. I don't get the feeling Wheel of Time saw that much influx when people were upset about that show who's complaints were very similar I may add :P
    Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

    HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

    WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.

  11. #3591
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    As far as HoD, there may have been comments about it, but you'll notice they all stopped. Why is that? Why aren't people upset about that show vs this one? Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it? That they focused on making a good show with a good story first?
    There is absolutely nothing different between how these characters are handled in both shows. They simply exist and that’s it.

    The fact that there are more vocal people who consider themselves fans of Tolkien’s works making a big deal about these castings (though the man would be rolling over in his grave if he could see all the racialist, white-centric bullshit these supposed “fans” are spouting about his works) has nothing to do with the show itself.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-09-04 at 01:14 PM.

  12. #3592
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Could it be that HBO did its diversity well and didn't sacrifice their story for it?
    Which part of the story so far, specifically, has been sacrificed.

  13. #3593
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.
    I loved the actor they got to play Padan Fain and thought he did a fantastic job. I didn't like how they changed his story in Fal Dara, and not seeing his desperation and corruption through the first book as he trails the boys, but the actor I felt was really good. I blame the writers for the changes to him, but by Fal Dara the show didn't resemble the book at all, so changing him too was just a drop in the bucket.

    Elayne, well they took out all of Caemyln because it was too expensive to make another city (I mean their Tar Valon was so embarrassing that I can't imagine them trying to do 2 cities), so I guess not having her made sense for that. Caemyln was basically a focus on Rand, so not having it or Elayne when Rand wasn't the focus of the show does make a sad sorta sense.

    I imagine the LOTR writers were surprised how much backlash they got from character changes when they probably saw the time period they were writing as fertile ground for "make up whatever you want because you don't have a book to judge it against"

  14. #3594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thentix21 View Post
    The one with underlying issues here is you. That is all you guys can do is swing the racism bat anytime someone has a legitimate concern because you can't come up with any kind of meaningful debate or rebuttal or argument. What is worse is you guys are so petty and smug in your deliveries of them as well.

    No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.

    No I won't actually cause they never did. Africa has a HUGE wealth of their own mythological and supernatural entities, deities, being and so on and so on. Someone could do a lot with it. And you best believe, if someone made a mythological world based on african culture and there was a white zulu warrior or something, and someone had a problem with it, id be right behind them saying they have a legitimate concern and it should not be. There should not be black dwarves or black elves, just like there should not be white zulu warriors or a white mythological person in africa in medieval time. Stop using the racism/sexism/bigotry blah blah blah crap, you are only projecting.
    Someone's very touchy, because I am not calling anyone racist who has legit criticism. In fact I have seen some negative reviews here that are completely valid. Although I have questions about the spammer on the previous page. That guy looks sus. And look even your opinions I respect it, I agree with your sentiment, about its basis and setting of middle-earth that's a legit criticism, even if I disagree with it, but for myself I just do not care about the skin colour as much as some. MY big issue is peoples' hyper fixation on that alone and not on the quality of the work. I for one, as mentioned, LOVED Sophia Nomvete role as Princess Disa in the show, and while yes the sight of a black female dwarf is very new her performance made me feel like it didn't matter.

    The problem comes down to if them being a different skin colour affects your ability to enjoy the story, the acting, the sound, the cinematography, the visuals, if the answer is 'it does' then yes you may have a problem.


    Food for thought though Tolkien specifically stated that Gondorians were culturally Egyptian in some ways, while their religion was very Hebrew (or is that Hebraic? I cannot remember) would we be so offended to have Gondorians be darker skinned because of this or even mixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Well it got out early who was going to be in the first season and Elayne was clearly omitted. So it was clear from the get go that they were going to intentionally omit one of Rand's love interests from the get go. The main cast is generally OK but I'm not sure why they cast a black dude to play Padan Fain, only to neuter his entire story arc alongside Mat's, as it doesn't really give him an opportunity to show his chops and that story is a pivotal part of Mat's development as a character.
    My biggest complain about Padan Fain was that he looked too swarve, and not as weaselly as I imagined. :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-04 at 01:40 PM.
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  15. #3595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

    HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

    WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.
    GoT is only more popular because of recency bias, LOTR set the table for GoT to be successful as a TV series. But it's still the best selling book series in history, ASoIF isn't even in the same ballpark. Tolkien's work has also been immortalized in music as well. GoT will never have the long lasting cultural impact that LOTR has had and you'd be a fool to think so. His works are used as literary studies as well, which is something George R.R Martin will never have with his work.

  16. #3596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Game of Thrones is WAAAAAAY more popular than LOTR. There is a reason Amazon wanted "their own Game of Thrones".

    HoD should be getting review bombed (if that is what is actually happening) way more than LOTR if what you're implying is true, but it isn't.

    WoT was protected pretty hard too by media and review sites, it simply didn't get as much press.
    Yea but WoT wasnt review bombed, I should know I have the show at 5/10 and my review wasnt removed. <checks site> Nope still there :P
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  17. #3597
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    Thank god demonicessa is gone, was too busy trying to not see the eye cancer to think about blocking..

  18. #3598
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    Omg I just remembered this came out and watched the first two episodes. This series is definitely scratching an itch for me. I love seeing all the artwork that relates to elves and dwarves and their civilization. I'm looking forward to seeing Galadriel in action and the creation of the special forge thing and the rings of power!
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-09-04 at 03:37 PM.

  19. #3599
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It can't be any of the wizards that we know about, unless the show is going to take massive dump on the LotR story.
    Could be one of the blues, we don't know anything about them..

  20. #3600
    Quote Originally Posted by Thentix21 View Post
    No it is not racist to be against black dwarves or elves in a Tolkiens universe. Tolkien created his universe because medieval britain/europe lacked a significant fantasy world and he based it on MEDEIVAL britain europe. Where in the historical documents do you seem groups of black people roaming around integrated into society in medieval europe/britain? I'll wait.
    That's not what he did at all. Not only did he abandon the idea of Middle-earth being a mythology for England early on (back when he was dabbling with the idea of time-traveling Saxon sailors), he specifically set his stories in a PRE-historic time on earth (knowing full well that the setting would never align with any actual geographical or historical reality). Trying to bring up historical documents is completely missing the point of what Tolkien was trying to do.

    Additionally, if you want to take the stretch of time that Tolkien put forth (setting the first and second ages roughly 18,000-6,000 years ago), that places much of these stories in a time before white skin was even prevalent across Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thentix21 View Post
    No I won't actually cause they never did. Africa has a HUGE wealth of their own mythological and supernatural entities, deities, being and so on and so on. Someone could do a lot with it. And you best believe, if someone made a mythological world based on african culture and there was a white zulu warrior or something, and someone had a problem with it, id be right behind them saying they have a legitimate concern and it should not be. There should not be black dwarves or black elves, just like there should not be white zulu warriors or a white mythological person in africa in medieval time. Stop using the racism/sexism/bigotry blah blah blah crap, you are only projecting.
    What does Africa have to do with anything? The actors in this show are British, not African. The fact that you can't help but deny them their identity as people born and raised in Europe is extremely problematic. Do you think people born in England with dark skin should never be allowed to participate in any sort of historical performances centered on the country of their birth? Can people with dark skin just never truly be European?

    See, this is the racist mentality that is on full view in this thread that you so casually want to brush under the rug. The idea that things like culture and history need to be kept "pure" in terms of skin color.

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