1. #3621
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Forced diversity is the same thing as discrimination. It is just the people at the top saying that they believe groups of people aren't qualified enough to be hired otherwise. Its -isms from people believing they are "good people".

    If you take 2 people, who are closely qualified for a position, and you hire the man over the woman because of his gender, its sexist.

    So..... if you take the same 2 people, and hire the woman over the man because of her gender.... what is it?
    What a load of horse shit.

    No, you’re examples are not sexist as is. There can certainly be good reasons to target a particular candidate based on gender. What would be sexist is if you made the decision based on the idea that one gender is inherently better than the other.

    Let’s say you’re picking a team of 5 people and after picking 3 men you decide the next pick should be a woman to bring more diversity to the group. Are you suddenly sexist for acknowledging that both genders are a valuable part of the team? Of course not. That’s not how sexism works.

    There’s also no such thing as “forced diversity”. It’s just called “diversity”. The only people who feel it’s forced are those who have a problem with it on an ideological level.

    AS FOR THE SHOW:
    - Better than expected. My only real complaint would be about all the fast travel making things feel rushed at times, but it makes sense given that they’re trying to keep things going across 4-5 different storylines.
    - The production value is definitely there (despite what any naysayers think). Compared to later seasons of GoT where much of the budget was eaten up by a few CGI dragons and an increasingly expensive cast, we’re getting a lot more visual “bang for your buck” in just these two first episodes. Looking forward to more spectacular looking settings and action sequences over the course of the season.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-09-03 at 11:13 PM.

  2. #3622
    Pretty bleh, and the random inserts everywhere takes me out of the story. There were so many better ways to do this, more interesting ways. As a stand alone series I'd give this 5/10, as a LOTR adaptation I'll give it 3.5/10 because of the lore butchering going on.
    House of the dragon is looking like the clear winner of this titanic fantasy budget match.

  3. #3623
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Again, you have no way to prove this and it is a pointless argument.
    In general, a 1 out of 10 means someone dislikes this show and is not going to watch it for the season.
    There are many reasons why that is a perfectly valid response, especially as time goes on.
    And when combined with the view count data, it will be much more clear how accurate it is.
    But outside of Amazon, nobody has that data, so speculating on who is a bot and who is not is pointless.
    If the ability exists to give a rating of a certain value, some people will choose it.
    Amazon only is concerned about this because of how it may affect viewership.
    Outside of that I see no reason to be arguing with you about it.
    It is easy to prove because there is hardly anything that actually deserves a 1/10 rating, a 1/10 rating has nothing to do with the show and everything to do with the lack of integrity a person actually has as they are not telling the truth, its not an argument or an opinion as giving a 1/10 rating has nothing to do with how good the show/movie or whatever actually is.
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  4. #3624
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    What a load of horse shit.

    No, you’re examples are not sexist as is. There can certainly be good reasons to target a particular candidate based on gender. What would be sexist is if you made the decision based on the idea that one gender is inherently better than the other.

    Let’s say you’re picking a team of 5 people and after picking 3 men you decide the next pick should be a woman to bring more diversity to the group. Are you suddenly sexist for acknowledging that both genders are a valuable part of the team? Of course not. That’s not how sexism works.

    There’s also no such thing as “forced diversity”. It’s just called “diversity”. The only people who feel it’s forced are those who have a problem with it on an ideological level.

    AS FOR THE SHOW:
    - Better than expected. My only real complaint would be about all the fast travel making things feel rushed at times, but it makes sense given that they’re trying to keep things going across 4-5 different storylines.
    - The production value is definitely there (despite what any naysayers think). Compared to later seasons of GoT where much of the budget was eaten up by a few CGI dragons and an increasingly expensive cast, we’re getting a lot more visual “bang for your buck” in just these two first episodes. Looking forward to more spectacular looking settings and action sequences over the course of the season.
    The "forced diversity" shit is so fucking dumb, but there's no pleasing these people. I remember the kicking and screaming when there were black people in Lake town in the first hobbit film and they were just in the crowd. It's only "forced" if you blatantly change a character who's characterization is tied to their gender or racial identity. Implying that completely new characters that are black or female is "forced diversity" means you just don't think they're good enough to be main characters or shouldn't exist in a fantasy universe.

  5. #3625
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    The "forced diversity" shit is so fucking dumb, but there's no pleasing these people. I remember the kicking and screaming when there were black people in Lake town in the first hobbit film and they were just in the crowd. It's only "forced" if you blatantly change a character who's characterization is tied to their gender or racial identity. Implying that completely new characters that are black or female is "forced diversity" means you just don't think they're good enough to be main characters or shouldn't exist in a fantasy universe.
    A few black people or even a black princess (without any kind of justification for it to happen) in an isolationist population is forced diversity.

  6. #3626
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    A few black people or even a black princess (without any kind of justification for it to happen) in an isolationist population is forced diversity.
    Why can't an Elf or Dwarf child occasionally be born with dark skin, just as Elves are occasionally born with red hair?

  7. #3627
    It's only two episodes so far, but I was pleasantly surprised, and I don't think the trailers did the show justice at all.

    What I really don't get, is the complaints about it not feeling like Tolkien. The dialogue has the some poetic flow as the LOTR trilogy, the costume design is on point, and the set/city design is as if taken out of the movies. If you're one of those hardcore Tolkien purists who also hated the LOTR movies, then yeah, sure, but as a medium level fan of the Tolkien legendarium, the show so far, has been MUCH better than what was expected/feared.

    The thing that felt the most "off" was male elvers having short hair and female dwarves not having beards.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2022-09-04 at 12:37 AM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  8. #3628
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It is easy to prove because there is hardly anything that actually deserves a 1/10 rating, a 1/10 rating has nothing to do with the show and everything to do with the lack of integrity a person actually has as they are not telling the truth, its not an argument or an opinion as giving a 1/10 rating has nothing to do with how good the show/movie or whatever actually is.
    To me it just means I have seen enough and don't want to see anymore.
    Considering the fact you are talking about streaming the idea is nobody has time to watch everything.
    And because of that, if they watch a few minutes and they just don't want to watch anymore, it is a 1/10.
    That is my view on what that means and yes that is a realistic and honest review in that case.
    This happens all the time whether or not people take the time to leave a review on it.

    Basically Amazon had to come out of the gate all guns blazing to capture those on the fence or curious.
    Remains to be seen as to whether it works or not. It was obvious from months ago this was an uphill battle.

    Overall we will see how "honest" things are after about a month when more of the show has aired.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-04 at 12:41 AM.

  9. #3629
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    It's only two episodes so far, but I was pleasantly surprised, and I don't think the trailers did the show justice at all.

    What I really don't get, is the complaints about it not feeling like Tolkien. The dialogue has the some poetic flow as the LOTR trilogy, the costume design is on point, and the set/city design is as if taken out of the movies. If you're one of those hardcore Tolkien purists who also hated the LOTR movies, then yeah, sure, but as a medium level fan of the Tolkien legendarium, the show so far, have been MUCH better than what was expected/feared.
    That's the thing - I'm sure the OT took liberties with the look and feel as well. I'm not a super hardcore fan, but I've read Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit (albeit a long time ago and don't really remember them that much), but it's consistent with Jackson's films. To a casual watcher, the show should at least feel like lord of the rings (unless they can't get over black hobbits, which it seems a not insignificant portion of people can't).

  10. #3630
    I watched much of the first two episodes, and I found the series to be fairly underwhelming and average at best, quite honestly. I admit, I'm surprised some people here liked it quite so much. Comparing the new series to the Fellowship of the Ring is not unlike comparing Shadowlands to Wrath of the Lich King. Sometimes newer continuations of a franchise is better than the original -- for example, off the top of my head, Shrek 2 seemed better and more interesting than the original Shrek. But at other times, the opposite is true; Mulan 2 was nowhere near the quality and popularity of the original Mulan, and neither was the "live-action movie" for that matter. (And I don't care much either way about debate over American identity politics, they could have an all-European or all-Asian cast, and I still would hardly be impressed by this series, if nothing else was changed.)

    To me at least, nothing about the show (except maybe the natural scenery) was particularly breathtaking or indicative of some groundbreaking masterpiece. I liked Arwen and even Tauriel, but this portrayal of Galadriel just seems to fail to capture the basic essence of the character, from either the book or the films. She seemed almost like Galadriel's younger half-sister or angry cousin from an alternate universe or something, not the young Galadriel herself. The actress might have been excellent in ANOTHER Amazon series, but I think there were better options for Galadriel in this one.

    The same with Elrond, he also seems very off and superficial and not particularly engaging or likable as a portrayal, I didn't even guess that he was the younger Elrond until it was specifically mentioned, perhaps he simply doesn't seem to have much of a resemblance to the Elrond from the films? The actors for Galadriel and Elrond, their skills seemed arguably passable, but nothing particularly special or uplifting either. The dialogue also seemed very awkward and not natural sounding at times. They are supposed to be the two most familiar main characters that enthralled millions of viewers from beginning to end, but there is neither familiarity nor mysticism and poise about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Watched the first episode.

    It's bad. Not even "it's so bad it's good". It's just not entertaining to watch. Almost all of the characters are unlikeable, either being boring as doorknobs or being actively unpleasant. The only characters I didn't dislike were the hobbit girl and the black elf archer, and even then they're not likeable, just not aggravating like the others. Dialogue is bad and there were at least a couple instances of extremely juvenile exchanges. I certainly wouldn't expect noble elves to be casually making light of human-elf relationships, or a guy literally saying "your mom cut herself, didn't she? Haha that's probably why your dad left" (I'm not joking this literally happened).

    The show looks visually unappealing. The costumes either look like the artists didn't even try, or look like cheap cosplays. There are compositing problems and the CGI monsters are weightless. Also, outside of the scenes that take place at Lindon, the show has this grey desaturated look. There are also disconcerting extreme close up shots, and the camera can never seem to sit still for more than 2 or 3 seconds. In some cases there were shots that lasted barely half a second and it very disorienting. Also, the music is forgettable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What boggles my mind is that this is a $700 million show. This is like, the most expensive show in the history ever, since Game of Thrones. You'd think that there would be top of the line talent on this show. Good cinematographers. Good actors. Writers who would make the dialogue not cringe. The best costume designers. The best in
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Good lord, every new interview and article about this Show shows more and more how absolute trash it is going to be.

    How People are even looking forward to this astounds me to no end. Though there doesn't seem to be a shortage of mental illness these days.
    Everything about the plot seemed random and confusing from that troll / dishevelled giant creature which crash-landed from the skies with little explanation and was found by two female hobbits, to Galadriel suddenly being sent to Valinor with most of her friends as a "reward" for her failed mission after she nearly got most of her companions killed, but then also choosing to return at the last moment, meeting a random man, and getting rescued by a ship that appeared from nowhere. Nothing seemed "magical" or wondrous in a way that truly made you want to eagerly watch the next episode. The elves in particular seemed to be very plastic and one-dimensional compared to the elves from the original trilogy.

    There are some mainstream reviewers who dislike the show, and there are about half a hundred negative reviews on YouTube when I searched, "Rings of Power Amazon review".
    https://ew.com/tv/tv-reviews/lord-of...-power-amazon/
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas...iews-entirely/
    https://time.com/6209353/rings-of-power-review/
    https://babylonbee.com/news/rings-of...am-here-for-it

    In short - perhaps this series will improve, along with my review and opinion of it, but I am not feeling very hopeful for its future. Because quite frankly, "Rings of Power" (even its very name) seems more like relatively mediocre fan fiction rather than anything else. I'm sure they tried to give a decent effort into making this...but the end result still seems rather incomplete and lackluster, like something simply out of sync and rhythm.
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-09-04 at 07:14 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  11. #3631
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Why can't an Elf or Dwarf child occasionally be born with dark skin, just as Elves are occasionally born with red hair?
    Likely for the same reason people are born with red hair all over Europe but not with dark skin.

    It was difficult to travel 1000 years ago, if you walked to China from Europe, you would be the only white person, you would not walk back. The further back in time you go, the less diverse individual villages would be. If the series was set in modern times, the casting would be fine, if set during medieval times, you would only expect to see differences along travel routes, people going inland after that would quickly have their traits bread out of the general population in 2 or 3 generations.

    There are good choices if you want to add people of color, have the people of Rhun bring an oliphant as a gift for the king, have a trade ship arrive. Both would be perfectly good options.

    Did you feel left out when none of the main cast in Squidgame were white?

  12. #3632
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    I hope they don't side story a romance plot. Damn do I hate that stuff, the Aragorn / Arwen scenes in PJ's too. Personal taste, romance is the most boring of the cinema genres.

  13. #3633
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    [B]
    To me at least, nothing about the show (except maybe the natural scenery) was particularly breathtaking or indicative of some groundbreaking masterpiece. I liked Arwen and even Tauriel, but this portrayal of Galadriel just seems to fail to capture the basic essence of the character, from either the book or the films. She seemed almost like Galadriel's younger half-sister from an alternative universe or something, not the young Galadriel herself. The actress might have been excellent in ANOTHER Amazon series, but I think there were better options for Galadriel in this one.
    Galadrial is almost 10K years old in Lord of the Rings. I find it ludicrous to believe she can't have changed at all in those years, and this portrayal isn't THAT much different in terms of characterization other than her being a super adept swordsman.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    [B]
    The same with Elrond, he also seems very off and superficial and not particularly engaging or likable as a portrayal, I didn't even guess that he was the younger Elrond until it was specifically mentioned, perhaps he doesn't seem to have much of a resemblance to the Elrond from the films?
    To each their own, but Elrond is one of the more "likeable" characters - and again, he seems reasonably in line with the previous film's version, albeit one that is thousands of years younger.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    [B]
    Everything about the plot seemed random and confusing from that troll which crash-landed and was found by two female hobbits, to Galadriel suddenly being sent to Valinor but then choosing to return. Nothing seemed "magical" or wondrous in a way that truly made you want to eagerly watch the next episode.
    The "troll" is likely Gandalf or Sauron or at least one of the Maiar. How can it be random if they're building the plot over the mystery of who he is? And Galdrial choosing to return was a completely understandable decision given the entire first episode, it wasn't random at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Likely for the same reason people are born with red hair all over Europe but not with dark skin.

    It was difficult to travel 1000 years ago, if you walked to China from Europe, you would be the only white person, you would not walk back. The further back in time you go, the less diverse individual villages would be. If the series was set in modern times, the casting would be fine, if set during medieval times, you would only expect to see differences along travel routes, people going inland after that would quickly have their traits bread out of the general population in 2 or 3 generations.

    There are good choices if you want to add people of color, have the people of Rhun bring an oliphant as a gift for the king, have a trade ship arrive. Both would be perfectly good options.

    Did you feel left out when none of the main cast in Squidgame were white?
    The series is set in a fictional universe and race doesn't matter for the plot, lore, or tone so there is nothing wrong with adding black characters. If you think they make the show seem out of place, that says more about you as a person than the showwriters. I love how everyone who criticizes this show is suddenly a PhD in Anthropology and needs to point out all these ridiculous nitpicks (they're not even that) as why the show is "woke" or "politicized".

  14. #3634
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    A few black people or even a black princess (without any kind of justification for it to happen) in an isolationist population is forced diversity.
    If there is variety in hair and eye color then variation in skin color is perfectly reasonable. It’s all the same thing at it’s core. Being so fixated in skin color as a differentiating factor says a lot more about your narrow world view than about the fantasy world itself.

  15. #3635
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    If there is variety in hair and eye color then variation in skin color is perfectly reasonable. It’s all the same thing at it’s core. Being so fixated in skin color as a differentiating factor says a lot more about your narrow world view than about the fantasy world itself.
    People always act under the assumption that forced diversity is bad in the first place. Even if it is "forced", I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why it's bad other than something that doesn't just boil down to "I don't like looking at black people".

  16. #3636
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Galadrial is almost 10K years old in Lord of the Rings. I find it ludicrous to believe she can't have changed at all in those years, and this portrayal isn't THAT much different in terms of characterization other than her being a super adept swordsman.

    The series is set in a fictional universe and race doesn't matter for the plot, lore, or tone so there is nothing wrong with adding black characters. If you think they make the show seem out of place, that says more about you as a person than the showwriters. I love how everyone who criticizes this show is suddenly a PhD in Anthropology and needs to point out all these ridiculous nitpicks (they're not even that) as why the show is "woke" or "politicized".
    What does it say about me? Go on, I'll let you know that I'm a "PoC" before you step in something you shouldn't step in. But I've been to Africa, I've lived most of my life in Asia, I've been to the middle east. Once you go 100km outside of an international airport it is VERY rare to see someone of a different race in those places. Fantasy does not make this different, fantasy needs to be grounded or the writers hand will show, and as soon as the writers hand is apparent, immersion can not be had.

    You also say that Galadriels personality doesn't matter because there is a timeskip, so if the original lore doesn't matter, personality doesn't matter, and race doesn't matter, why are we calling this Lord of the Rings?

    Go read some reviews about the Matrix, there isn't anyone talking about forced diversity there, because in that universe it makes perfect sense, and it's one of the most popular movies ever, please explain that to me, how come everyone is ok with it when it makes sense, but people are not okay with it when it doesn't make sense? If they wanted to make entire villages of darker skinned people, or continents, it would make so much more sense than what they did.

    There are 2 types of fantasy "light" fantasy, things like Harry Potter, clearly designed for a younger audience, if you start thinking about the magic system or why noone notices tons of people going in and out of the train station compared to getting on the trains, well, it doesn't make sense, but it is not designed to, it's fully escapist fun for a younger audience, it's ok that you have a watch that lets you travel back in time, and the only thing they use it for is so Herminoe can take double classes because that is the design the author was going for.

    Then you have the "hard" or "serious" type fantasy, lord of the rings and a song of ice and fire both fall under this banner, they aim to depict a world as if it really existed. We are asked to suspend our disbelief for a few fantastical elements, but nothing more. Their worlds are designed to make internal sense. If .. lets say the average person could cast fire spells, the author would've thought through what ramifications that would've had for the world.

    It's a little like comparing a light hearted action movie and a serious drama, you would be totally fine with Vin Diesel surviving driving a car out of a plane in fast and the furious 6, it would however take you right out of your immersion if Ayrton Senna drove a car out of a plane in the Senna mini series about his life and tragic death.

    For people that don't like fantasy very much I can see how you don't care if nothing in the world makes sense, but for people very into the second type of fantasy, it is jarring.

    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    People always act under the assumption that forced diversity is bad in the first place. Even if it is "forced", I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why it's bad other than something that doesn't just boil down to "I don't like looking at black people".
    Show me a post like that, I think you saying that says more about you than the people you are trying to critique.
    You can't understand why it doesn't make sense? Would you be perfectly fine with a few modern buildings in the elven cities in LOTR? How about if the Burj Khalifa was in Hobbiton? I mean, what is wrong with architectural diversity right?
    Last edited by Sialina; 2022-09-04 at 01:28 AM.

  17. #3637
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    To me it just means I have seen enough and don't want to see anymore.
    Considering the fact you are talking about streaming the idea is nobody has time to watch everything.
    And because of that, if they watch a few minutes and they just don't want to watch anymore, it is a 1/10.
    That is my view on what that means and yes that is a realistic and honest review in that case.
    This happens all the time whether or not people take the time to leave a review on it.

    Basically Amazon had to come out of the gate all guns blazing to capture those on the fence or curious.
    Remains to be seen as to whether it works or not. It was obvious from months ago this was an uphill battle.

    Overall we will see how "honest" things are after about a month when more of the show has aired.
    You cant leave an honest review if you have not seen it all for one, and even if you dont like it for whatever reason that doesnt make it right to claim its a 1/10 show just because you dont like it, i dont like love island but im not going to claim its bad just because its not to my taste, a 1/10 rating is not a genuine rating and is completely dishonest.
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  18. #3638
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    People always act under the assumption that forced diversity is bad in the first place. Even if it is "forced", I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why it's bad other than something that doesn't just boil down to "I don't like looking at black people".
    Yeah, pretty much people who have been so conditioned to see skin color as making someone SO different that you need a “good” reason for them to just be there. Even in a fantasy world where none of our racial history need apply.

  19. #3639
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post

    Then you have the "hard" or "serious" type fantasy, lord of the rings and a song of ice and fire both fall under this banner, they aim to depict a world as if it really existed. We are asked to suspend our disbelief for a few fantastical elements, but nothing more. Their worlds are designed to make internal sense. If .. lets say the average person could cast fire spells, the author would've thought through what ramifications that would've had for the world.

    It's a little like comparing a light hearted action movie and a serious drama, you would be totally fine with Vin Diesel surviving driving a car out of a plane in fast and the furious 6, it would however take you right out of your immersion if Ayrton Senna drove a car out of a plane in the Senna mini series about his life and tragic death.
    Today I learned that non-white people existing in a fictional setting is as fantastical as surviving a superhero action stunt. The lengths people go to to justify their bullshit is breathtaking.

  20. #3640
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You cant leave an honest review if you have not seen it all for one, and even if you dont like it for whatever reason that doesnt make it right to claim its a 1/10 show just because you dont like it, i dont like love island but im not going to claim its bad just because its not to my taste, a 1/10 rating is not a genuine rating and is completely dishonest.
    I am just giving my way of looking at it because this is a TV show that requires a time investment over months and potentially years.
    If you are not drawn into it based on a few episodes then yes, it can very much be a 1/10 because you really dislike it that much.
    For me, there are plenty of TV shows on streaming that fall into this category especially new stuff created on those services.
    Basically it means "hard pass" wouldn't watch even if I had all the time in the world after watching everything else available I wanted to watch. Streaming is all about getting eyeballs on product and it is a very crowded space so yes, that kind of response would make sense in that context.

    Whether that applies to any or all of these who knows. That would be my personal justification for a rating like that.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-04 at 01:36 AM.

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