1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    I think Clark should have been kept as a human supporting character, perhaps even the main female human protagonist, but someone else was better for the role of Galadriel. I don't really dislike her specifically, her acting and portrayal just seems somehow off and out of sync and almost forced in some ways. I think it is sad that people attack her (there was a video saying that she needed therapy after the backlash), but when you are trying to be the main character in a $250 million production by a major company, that role does come with very high expectations and qualifications.

    I'm not sure who, perhaps that blond British actress from The Great Gatsby? Again, I liked Arwen and Tauriel and their actresses immensely, they both seemed uniquely elven and realistic in a way that this young Galadriel isn't, really immersing you in an otherworldly setting with their performance and dialogue and interactions with fellow characters. I think the Eowyn actress, were she 20 years younger, could have made a very fine young Galadriel!

    I am not even sure its fair for me to say she is a good Galadriel, she has moments but I think that's more down to the stuff going on around her, and camera shots. Also it may be my more familiarity with the movies over the books, but she looks way too human. Personally I would have been totally fine if the role of Galadriel wasnt even Galadriel but an entirely new character.

    and as much as I think the show so far is... fine... I honest feel they should have went the Shadow of Mordor route and just bring us new characters in a second age setting with maybe some cameos thrown in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post



    For everyone here who loves it so much, I give you something to aim your vitriol at:
    You assume I 'loved' the show. That's cute. I got lots of complaints about the show, I thought the show was decent at best. I Just think most of the complaints about the show are unwarranted and dumb. I am yet to be wowed. By the end of the season I could hate the show, who knows. The biggest praise I have for the show is the musical score and the costume design for the orcs

    This forum tends to be very hyperbolic, like the show can either only be good or bad and never in-between. Thankfully I am the in-between. (which feels like the Last Jedi all over again ugh)
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-05 at 09:35 PM.
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

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  2. #3802
    Quote Originally Posted by ArminVanburkek View Post
    I use the 8.5 rating for the series, movies can go like down to 6 or even lower.
    using solely an imdb rating, regardless for what, as an absolute break point, offers the least meaningful value and is in my opinion the most stupid thing, one can base a descission on.

    when paired WITH, and set in relation TO, other critics like metacrirics or rotten tomatoes, the metrics of imdb ratings are fine. used solo, as an absolute measurement, it’s horrible and plain useless.

    every cineast will tell you the same. but if you are just watching 5 series in 20-40 years, ofc it’s fine.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2022-09-05 at 09:30 PM.

  3. #3803
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Can't say I've heard any praise of the elephant scene, nor the shield sliding scenes. Most ridicule them.
    even if you ignore the fantastical nature of the way he got up on the oliphaunt, the three arrows to the brain was a very realistic way to kill it, unlike the superman jump off a sword into some blade twirling bollox and then somehow it's weak enough to drop its head and she pokes a hole through the skull with a dagger, they are night and day from each other in terms of farcical presentations of super elves.

  4. #3804
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yet the anachronisms are generally within reason and applied to a setting where melee combat was how warfare was fought, and there was no advanced technology as far as what could be considered modern. The range of technology is loose enough to be based on a point in time before gunpowder was widely used for hand-weapons. The anachronisms don't make the setting completely unfamiliar to history.

    Like even the Warhammer fantasy setting is completely anachronistic and mixes Aztec culture with Teutonic Knights and Vikings and gunpowder-using Riflemen. Even Dwarves employ 'Tanks', but the setting wouldn't be comparable to say 1920's warfare just because they have access to tanks. It's just how the setting presents itself.

    With Middle Earth, the anachronisms are less egregious.
    This just boils down to a misunderstanding of how numbers work.

    The span of time from the Early to the Late Middle Ages is about twice as long as from the Late Middle Ages to today. A cellphone in a story set during the Renaissance would be less anachronistic than Renaissance technology in a society that more closely mirrors that of Beowulf in the Early Middle Ages (by a good 500+ years).

    The things I listed aren’t anachronisms for Middle-earth because the setting isn’t that of medieval Europe. Though it draws from a variety of sources, including the Middle Ages, it is set outside of our timeline. Calling it “medieval allegory” is just ignorant of history and what the author intended.

  5. #3805
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    You assume I 'loved' the show. That's cute.
    Sorry, I know English isn't the first language of a lot of people on here. That qualifying preposition means "for everyone that loves the thing that comes after the comma".... aka the Strawman..... since so many people on here love their Strawmen.

  6. #3806
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    even if you ignore the fantastical nature of the way he got up on the oliphaunt, the three arrows to the brain was a very realistic way to kill it, unlike the superman jump off a sword into some blade twirling bollox and then somehow it's weak enough to drop its head and she pokes a hole through the skull with a dagger, they are night and day from each other in terms of farcical presentations of super elves.
    The idea that arrows could even pierce the skull of an animal that large is ridiculous. Even small caliber modern firearms will ricochet off the skulls of large animals like bears and elephants.

    The point is: stop being a fucking weirdo and trying to argue that one is more farcical than the other.

  7. #3807
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    The idea that arrows could even pierce the skull of an animal that large is ridiculous. Even small caliber modern firearms will ricochet off the skulls of large animals like bears and elephants.

    The point is: stop being a fucking weirdo and trying to argue that one is more farcical than the other.
    A leap off a mid air sword to use it as a springboard is even more farcical than the shield surfing scene and that on it's own was absurd.

  8. #3808
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    A leap off a mid air sword to use it as a springboard is even more farcical than the shield surfing scene and that on it's own was absurd.
    Farcical action is par for the course for Tolkien elves on screen. Get over it.

    Peter Jackson set the precedent 20 years ago. If you thought Galadriel wasn’t going to do something impossibly badass and ridiculous looking then you were just lying to yourself.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-09-05 at 10:41 PM.

  9. #3809
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    The idea that arrows could even pierce the skull of an animal that large is ridiculous. Even small caliber modern firearms will ricochet off the skulls of large animals like bears and elephants.

    The point is: stop being a fucking weirdo and trying to argue that one is more farcical than the other.
    yes, which is why he didn't, this comment just shows how ignorant and uneducated you regarding basic biology and physiology, i suggest you go and watch the scene in question again because he doesn't actually need to pierce the skull, and in fact i could do the self same thing to you without touching the cranium to achieve the same result.

    except one is more farcical than the other, and multiple people have stated why they think so, are you telling me that people aren't allowed to find things they subjectively dislike and find farcical? are you really going to say with a straight face 'stop disliking this portion of the show'? really?, well i suppose you are a walking stereotype, so it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

  10. #3810
    Heroes of the Noldor have taken down Balrogs, Sauron's werewolf (barehanded) and one even held their ground against Morgoth long enough to wound him. It shouldn't be surprising that Galadriel, the greatest of the Noldor (save Fëanor, maybe,) would easily take down a troll.

  11. #3811
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Heroes of the Noldor have taken down Balrogs, Sauron's werewolf (barehanded) and one even held their ground against Morgoth long enough to wound him. It shouldn't be surprising that Galadriel, the greatest of the Noldor (save Fëanor, maybe,) would easily take down a troll.
    where is that shown in the show so far?, where is any of that described? because unless i missed it it's never shown nor stated nor implied anywhere other than her being a brooding annoying cunt of epic proportions, because this show is doing everything in its power to avoid referencing actual real lore and is instead insistent on the fan fiction drivel being served up.

  12. #3812
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Heroes of the Noldor have taken down Balrogs, Sauron's werewolf (barehanded) and one even held their ground against Morgoth long enough to wound him. It shouldn't be surprising that Galadriel, the greatest of the Noldor (save Fëanor, maybe,) would easily take down a troll.
    This.

    And let's not forget, Elendil and Gil-galad defeated Sauron in direct combat. And that was a One-Ring empowered Sauron at the height of his power at the time, not the slinking Sauron hiding after Morgoth's defeat that we get to see in the show.

    Sauron is a Maia, not a god-like Vala. And as said in the quote, even a former Ainu like Morgoth WAS in fact wounded by a single elf in 1v1 combat.

  13. #3813
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    where is that shown in the show so far?, where is any of that described? because unless i missed it it's never shown nor stated nor implied anywhere other than her being a brooding annoying cunt of epic proportions, because this show is doing everything in its power to avoid referencing actual real lore and is instead insistent on the fan fiction drivel being served up.
    So suddenly now only things shown in the show matter? Fascinating. Because you can google "Galadriel, the greatest of the Noldor" and find out why he keeps saying that for yourself.

  14. #3814
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Heroes of the Noldor have taken down Balrogs, Sauron's werewolf (barehanded) and one even held their ground against Morgoth long enough to wound him. It shouldn't be surprising that Galadriel, the greatest of the Noldor (save Fëanor, maybe,) would easily take down a troll.
    Yes but Galadriel was not documented as one of them. And takinig down a troll is not the same as taking down Morgoth.
    The problem is all of those Elves should have been able to fight that troll and take it down with or without Galadriel.
    Otherwise, why have them on a search for Sauron if they cant even take out a Troll?

    The bigger issue is in terms of fleshing out the story of how Elves are trained to fight and what their weapons and tactics are.
    It is something they could have at least touched on in this series as all Elves are trained in the lore from a young age in athletics.
    I would assume this would include some form of combat and use of weapons. Some level of combat skill and ability should be common.
    Her being like an Amazonian in her youth doesn't meant that all the men are weak and inept. Compare to the Hobbit and the female and male elves.

    Also, another problem I have seen so far is they must not have been big on hiring extras or using CGI to extend crowds like WETA.
    Because large groups of people are notably missing from this show. Like if she is leader of the Northern Armies, then where are they? 10 men certainly isn't an army.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-05 at 11:44 PM.

  15. #3815
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Yes but Galadriel was not documented as one of them. And takinig down a troll is not the same as taking down Morgoth.
    The problem is all of those Elves should have been able to fight that troll and take it down with or without Galadriel.
    Otherwise, why have them on a search for Sauron if they cant even take out a Troll.

    The bigger issue is in terms of fleshing out the story of how Elves are trained to fight and what their weapons and tactics are.
    It is something they could have at least touched on in this series as all Elves are trained in the lore from a young age in athletics.
    I would assume this would include some form of combat and use of weapons. Some level of combat skill and ability should be common.
    Naw don't you know that being powerful automatically means you can wield a sword like the greatest warrior to ever exist? It couldn't possible mean anything else, like someone being incredible wise, a great leader, immensely knowledgeable,etc. Since people keep using his letter about her having an amazon disposition to justify whatever they want about Galadriel, can we go back to complaining about the lack of dwarven women beards, since that was in a few places?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  16. #3816
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Naw don't you know that being powerful automatically means you can wield a sword like the greatest warrior to ever exist? It couldn't possible mean anything else, like someone being incredible wise, a great leader, immensely knowledgeable,etc. Since people keep using his letter about her having an amazon disposition to justify whatever they want about Galadriel, can we go back to complaining about the lack of dwarven women beards, since that was in a few places?
    What they are showing is contradicting what they have been saying. So I guess now that she was exiled for infinity to the undying lands, she technically got demoted right along with her squad? Which means that whole story line was contrived to begin with as they just wanted some cool sword action and then needed someway to get Galadriel on that raft with Halbrand. And this is how the writers solved that problem of getting her from point a to point b because being on that boat was a big deal for the studio and shown in the marketing. Doesn't make sense that the high king would ignore the warnings of the 'leader of the Northern Armies' and then pick a squad of soldiers she should have been able to pick for herself from that army. But then they couldn't shown that she was being stabbed in the back by them, meaning everything about that her 'empowerment' is a contradiction. If they didn't have confidence in her skills and leadership, they never would have made her leader of an army, so them questioning her like this and then exiling her while claiming she is this leader is a contradiction. A better story would be she was made commander because of her skills and that would have been part of the flash back, not any bullying. And by the time the show starts, she literally leads an army and is using them to look for Sauron around Middle Earth.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-05 at 11:59 PM.

  17. #3817
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    yes, which is why he didn't, this comment just shows how ignorant and uneducated you regarding basic biology and physiology, i suggest you go and watch the scene in question again because he doesn't actually need to pierce the skull, and in fact i could do the self same thing to you without touching the cranium to achieve the same result.
    Going from weirdo to psycho, huh? Yeah, that seems on brand for you.

    Legolas stands on the oliphant’s neck and shoots downward towards the base of the head. There would be no way to hit the brain at that angle without needing to pierce the skull. Even the spine in that area would be protected by like 6ft worth of fat and muscle.

    It was supposed to look cool, not realistic. I’m not telling you what to like or dislike. I’m telling you that trying to compare and contrast how impossible two impossible feats are is silly.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-09-06 at 12:08 AM.

  18. #3818
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Yes but Galadriel was not documented as one of them. And takinig down a troll is not the same as taking down Morgoth.
    The problem is all of those Elves should have been able to fight that troll and take it down with or without Galadriel.
    Otherwise, why have them on a search for Sauron if they cant even take out a Troll?
    That's a pretty ridiculous complaint tbh. It's a storytelling trope, effectively just a variant of the Worf Effect (the Redshirt Army, to be precise) - the elves get beat up for the express reason that it makes the troll seem dangerous, which then makes Galadriel's swift dispatching of it appear all the more impressive. This has zero to do with her being female and is in no way exclusive to this character. It's done ALL THE TIME in fiction, in pretty much the same way.

    And that is what "documents" (as you put it) Galadriel as being a badass. That's precisely why that scene exists.

    Would it be more "logical" for a troop of centuries-old combat veterans to basically just fillet and mince any ol' opponent ever in no time flat? Probably. But that doesn't lend itself to sensible storytelling any more than the fact that The Flash or Superman should basically defeat any and all villain ever in a fraction of a second because 1/2mv² scales pretty ridiculously in a world of actual physics.

    This is just completely normal, absolutely standard cinematic and narrative technique at work.

  19. #3819
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's a pretty ridiculous complaint tbh. It's a storytelling trope, effectively just a variant of the Worf Effect (the Redshirt Army, to be precise) - the elves get beat up for the express reason that it makes the troll seem dangerous, which then makes Galadriel's swift dispatching of it appear all the more impressive. This has zero to do with her being female and is in no way exclusive to this character. It's done ALL THE TIME in fiction, in pretty much the same way.

    And that is what "documents" (as you put it) Galadriel as being a badass. That's precisely why that scene exists.

    Would it be more "logical" for a troop of centuries-old combat veterans to basically just fillet and mince any ol' opponent ever in no time flat? Probably. But that doesn't lend itself to sensible storytelling any more than the fact that The Flash or Superman should basically defeat any and all villain ever in a fraction of a second because 1/2mv² scales pretty ridiculously in a world of actual physics.

    This is just completely normal, absolutely standard cinematic and narrative technique at work.
    And you completely are missing the point. All Elves are trained in combat and athletics from a young age. Not just Galadriel. They are on a mission to search for Sauron, so they all should be the best of the best. So that trope shouldn't even apply here as there is no payoff. Meaning, all of the men in that squad turn around and abandon her. No accolades for her actions, as opposed to a complete rejection of her mission. And then when they all get back they get exiled for infinity. So all of that badassery is completely negated by the writing. The point being if she had all these skills as an Amazon or especially fierce and athletic female, then it would be admired and respected for it. But this show is and the writing are not showing them admiring or respecting her for that or for her leadership. So it is a complete contradiction of her being badass. The only trope at work here is that she is being rejected for being female and the only way for her to find her own way is to jump off that boat and swim on the ocean. They even put in that flashback of her talking to her brother after being bullied to reinforce this notion that she has always been rejected and that we the audience should see she is right and a badass but nobody else does in universe, which is what I am calling the contradiction.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-06 at 12:28 AM.

  20. #3820
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    And you completely are missing the point. All Elves are trained in combat and athletics from a young age. Not just Galadriel. They are on a mission to search for Sauron, so they all should be the best of the best.
    That's not in line with a narrative epic, where Heroes with a capital H exist. Tolkien's writing is FULL of this, all his stories have standout characters that are unbelievably more skilled and powerful than a rando commando.

    To demand this would not just be completely un-Tolkien, it would also undermine most fantasy genre conventions in general.

    Galadriel was one of the greatest elves EVER, arguably THE greatest given she's in direct contention with Fëanor who aside from being a genius craftsman of god-like skill or beyond was mostly a whiny PoS and yet is usually the one cited as being the greatest. Tolkien himself saw her as such, and planned to expand on that by making her even more badass, particularly in terms of her combat abilities (he details this in some of his letters).

    To somehow suggest that the elves fighting with her should be of comparable level is seriously misunderstanding the way that Tolkien wrote his stories, particularly the ones from before the Third Age.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Meaning, all of the men in that squad turn around and abandon her. No accolades for her actions, as opposed to a complete rejection of her mission. And then when they all get back they get exiled for infinity. So all of that badassery is completely negated by the writing.
    Nobody is saying Galadriel isn't a badass warrior - not her troops, not Gil-galad, not anyone. The problem isn't that she isn't a ridiculously skilled warrior, it's that she's nurturing a borderline destructive obsession. And they don't get "exiled" so much as they get rewarded. Somehow you seem to read this as an ironic reward, when it's actually quite the opposite for anyone but Galadriel - the highest honor you could hope for was to return to the Undying Lands, the Arda equivalent of paradise. Middle Earth is the exile. They get to END their exile. Gil-galad doesn't do this to spite Galadriel or get her out of the way, he genuinely wants her to find peace and happiness, because he can see what her seething grudge is doing to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    The point being if she had all these skills as an Amazon or especially fierce and athletic female, then it would be admired and respected for it.
    That's not how elves think. They're far more sophisticated than that. Emotional balance is just as important - which is precisely why Fëanor is so deeply flawed. He was blessed in basically every aspect, endowed with more talent and genius than any elf before or since, to the point where he rivaled or even surpassed the gods themselves. But he was also an arrogant dickwad who couldn't let go, and that plunged an entire people into millennia of conflict and bloodshed. The shadow of that kind of emotional flaw DESPITE otherwise exalted skill is precisely what echoes in Galadriel. She the mirror image of Fëanor in many ways, except she succeeds - eventually - in overcoming her character flaws. Culminating famously in the Lord of the Rings when she finally manages to reject power, and that's what allows her to return to Valinor at last.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    The only trope at work here is that she is being rejected for being female and the only way for her to find her own way is to jump off that boat and swim on the ocean. They even put in that flashback of her talking to her brother after being bullied to reinforce this notion that she has always been rejected.
    That's just completely made up. Where does it say ANYTHING about all this being because she's female? When is that EVER made a topic?

    She's ridiculously skilled but has serious character flaws, a literally legendary problem of the Noldor. Her being female has zero to do with it, and is never addressed or implied anywhere either in the show OR in the books.

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