Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Veggie50]

I haven't watched it yet because the trailers didn't sell me on it. it doesn't seem like it's Tolkien's story, it's just a random YA fantasy set in Tolkien's world.

And when I saw even Grace Randolph, who I generally don't put a lot of weight on her reviews, call Galadriel both a Mary Sue and a Karen wrapped into one package, that cemented my choice.

I'm not interested in Twitter's version of Tolkien's work. They would be busy calling him a fascist if he were alive today, rather than trying to profit off of his work.

"I didn't watch it but I don't like it" is a very common take here

[fakaroonie]

I'm not familiar with the second age lore, but can that be Radagast?

[Veggie50]

I'm not familiar with the second age lore, but can that be Radagast?

Well appearing as a meteor seems like a weird way to bring him to middle earth, but it's possible... As istari they were sent in the 3rd age, but the wizards may have visited before that.

[Biomega]

I'm not familiar with the second age lore, but can that be Radagast?

Third Age in the canon chronology, but they could change all manner of things.

If they do go with a known wizard, though, I cannot imagine them not going with Gandalf. That would just seem so unlikely, for marketing and recognition value.

Plus there's the association with fire (Gandalf wields the "secret fire" and later the Ring of Fire) and the scene with the fireflies, which is an almost 1:1 mirroring of his scene with the moth on top of Saruman's tower in the LotR movies. None of that fits Radagast or the Blue Wizards, but does fit Gandalf.

[Syegfryed]

Do we know she wasn't a bitch?

...yes, we do know that, the writers would know as well fi they had read the source material

She basically told Frodo that if she took the ring, she'd become another Sauron.

Thats Because is what the one ring do, they corrupt the user, regardless, even Gandalf would be corrupted by it, not because she was a bitch, but because its the ring function.

Galadriel being more complex than "a pretty lady who fights evil and doesn't afraid" isn't exactly unprecedented.

You call being a bitch and an absurd moronic... complex?

But notably, she did turn back to help the elf who had fallen when she saw why they asked her to stop. I don't really see the point in lying about the scene. But maybe that's just me.

Whats your point of making something up like this? i didn't lie, she did want to leave the elf there, that was my point, she would never be needed to be called by her name to do that. She is, simple, not Galadriel, at all

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That's my point. Of course she was. But she didn't care. That's the purpose of that scene: to show that she is not going to stop, not ever. Come what may. You get in her way, you get cut down.

I think the point was to show how the elves were exhausted and thats why they got their as handled by the troll?

That's also very much intentional. It's no coincidence Galadriel is often mentioned in comparison to Fëanor. She is his counterpart, all the pride and selfishness that made the Noldor so susceptible to Fëanor's curse, though unlike him she manages to overcome it in the end. She was not a nice person at many times in her life. The Galadriel from LotR is THOUSANDS of years later. It's not how she started. And it's not what she is at the time of this show.

she still does have, give or take, 5 to 8 thousands of years, that is a lot of time to build character

In LotR, which is thousands of years later. It was not the case at this point in time. Galadriel is much older than Elrond. He wasn't born in Valinor, he had never even been there. Elrond did not start out as the ring-bearing lord he is in LotR.

Right, i know that, that still does not make sense to portray him as a limp nobody, who just get called "orc" by Galadriel, that is kindergarten stuff

We don't really have books to go by for this. There isn't enough material on Galadriel that covers her actions during this time; in fact she's mostly absent from events as described. However, we know Tolkien planned to change her into more of a warrior type. He talks about his plans in his letters, wishing to expand her into an amazon-like character featured in more stories. He just never got to write them before he died. The show is taking liberties with the character based on that, since there isn't really much actual source material, just snippets here and there.

Pretty sure Tolkien would be able to write her to not be a bitch warrior, thats for sure, the liberties they took just don't work

I think it need to be said to not be misinterpreted later, i have no problem in Galadriel being "warrior elf" - although i would much prefer that she would be more into an arcane or magic fighter rather than a physical one - but the way they are doing is way too fucking bad, the writing.

I'm not too happy with the first 2 either, but to be fair, I also didn't think Sandman was that great until after the 24h diner episode. It really picks up in the second half. I'll give this a bit more time; but not too much more. At least it's not WoT.

Sandman first two episodes were intriguing enough to keep you about wanting to see how the fuck things unfold, and the dialogue was not bad, this is enough to keep someone watching.

This one it gave me no mental strength to watch the second yet.

Like, there is so many dumbfolding stuff in the first episode alone that i didn't digest yet. Of how nonsensical the writing is, it comes to a point that it contradicts itself in the same scene, i Think the very first dialogue starts with two lines that simple don't make sense with each other, is like they took two openings, could not decide what to use, then used both.

I will actually watch a second time just to nitpick about the dialogues alone and later post here, cause some of them are hilarious

It is a bit silly. I'd have just made it so she sees a Númenoran ship in the distance, and that gives her the idea to jump. She swims towards them, gets picked up, and gets shipped straight to Númenor. That whole castaway bullshit with the sea serpent was completely unnecessary and boring.

Pretty much like the Sauron mark, a Lot of the things that happened are unnecessary or nonsensical

And don't let me talk about TOTALLY-NOT-SAURON yet, that Galadriel will prob have some conflict feelings (isn't she supposed to be married already?)

[Biomega]

I think the point was to show how the elves were exhausted and thats why they got their as handled by the troll?

And do you somehow think those two are mutually exclusive, or something?

she still does have, give or take, 5 to 8 thousands of years, that is a lot of time to build character

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Right, i know that, that still does not make sense to portray him as a limp nobody, who just get called "orc" by Galadriel, that is kindergarten stuff

If you see Elrond portrayed as a "limp nobody" then we've watched a very different show. He's not who he is in LotR but how is he a "nobody"? He frequently advises Gild-galad directly. He gets hand-picked to accompany Celebrimbor, the greatest craftsman of the age. He is a personal friend of the crown prince of Khazad-dûm, and goes into a contest of endurance with him. How is that being limp OR a nobody? Just because he's not in full armor, beheading orcs every scene? What?

Pretty sure Tolkien would be able to write her to not be a bitch warrior, thats for sure, the liberties they took just don't work

How much of that is the actual narrative, though, and how much of it is details stemming from the particular interpretation of the character by the actress? I agree the dialogue is a bit eh and the acting is pretty bad, but in general? The overall narrative role? What's the problem with it, exactly?

I think it need to be said to not be misinterpreted later, i have no problem in Galadriel being "warrior elf" - although i would much prefer that she would be more into an arcane or magic fighter rather than a physical one

I don't think that exists in Tolkien's work, really. Even Gandalf barely fights with magic, using a sword most of the time. And he's a literal wizard. Seems like an unreasonable expectation, given the framework.

Pretty much like the Sauron mark, a Lot of the things that happened are unnecessary or nonsensical

I agree that's a bit of a weird one that I'm not sure is going anywhere good. Can't tell yet, but it's a concern.

Don't get me wrong - I think the show isn't great so far. But the things I've pointed out are not about how good the show is; only whether or not what they're doing is plausible and slots into what we know. And for the most part it does, though there's also parts where it really doesn't.

(isn't she supposed to be married already?)

Having a daughter already, by the original chronology. But they've clearly changed things. I'm not too fussed about it. It makes more sense for an adaptation to show this gradually, rather than just going "oh yeah by the way I have a husband and daughter somewhere, gg" which wouldn't be good storytelling for the show.

[Aydinx2]

YOU are the one claiming Tolkien's dragons have 2 pairs of legs and separate wings. You provided one drawing to back that claim, but in that drawing, the front legs and wings are A SINGLE UNIT, not separate.

Are you blind? The wings are attached behind the shoulderblades, like they are for almost any creature that has wings.

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...yes, we do know that, the writers would know as well fi they had read the source material

Which they shouldn't, since they're not legally allowed to use any material outside of the 3 LotR books.

[Syegfryed]

And do you somehow think those two are mutually exclusive, or something?

Basically, you are telling me, that everyone is exhausted, because the journey, but Galadriel will not stop, by no reason, even with exhaustion, cause she is better than everyone.

That is exactly the problem of the show.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

That she is old enough to not be an insufferable bitch and the others are old enough to not be dumbasess

If you see Elrond portrayed as a "limp nobody" then we've watched a very different show. He's not who he is in LotR but how is he a "nobody"? He frequently advises Gild-galad directly. He gets hand-picked to accompany Celebrimbor, the greatest craftsman of the age. He is a personal friend of the crown prince of Khazad-dûm, and goes into a contest of endurance with him. How is that being limp OR a nobody? Just because he's not in full armor, beheading orcs every scene? What?

If he frequently advice Gil'galand, get handpicked to accompany Celebrimbor why they make look like he is a nobody "well Galadriel i can't go there because im a nobody"

The actor is AWFUL in the character, no offense to him, but him does not sell, his interaction with Galadriel just bitching with him is absurd.

How much of that is the actual narrative, though, and how much of it is details stemming from the particular interpretation of the character by the actress? I agree the dialogue is a bit eh and the acting is pretty bad, but in general? The overall narrative role? What's the problem with it, exactly?

Seeing how awful the writing is, lm not gonna bully or blame the actress, im confident seeing their bs so far that she is just doing what she is told

If the dialogue, acting and the writing is bad(i crush the seeds ~~gently~~), what is left in the show? the cgi and music? how this can carry 6 whole seasons.


Its like saying: "if you take everything that is bad - everything that matters in a show - you know what, its quite all right!

I don't think that exists in Tolkien's work, really. Even Gandalf barely fights with magic, using a sword most of the time. And he's a literal wizard. Seems like an unreasonable expectation, given the framework.

Well, aren't they fucking with the story? how this would be worse than what they already did? Besides, its first/second age, they would do more of that kind of stuff, didn't her brother and Sauron fight like with song, and it was magic and all? Galadriel could probably shout the troll dead

Don't get me wrong - I think the show isn't great so far. But the things I've pointed out are not about how good the show is; only whether or not what they're doing is plausible and slots into what we know. And for the most part it does, though there's also parts where it really doesn't.

I don't even mind some changes, but some of then you just raise your eyebrows and ask, why, why the hell that was even necessary,

It could be 100% plausible, like what they did by changing the reason of why they went after Morgoth, because they can't mention the silmarilions, but at the same time, they ignore Ungoliath and mention the silmarilions later, w-h-y?

Like, i, personally, for pure bias, don't care much about changes in those specific materials (if they actually make sense or it's for the good of the show, yada yada), because i don't like elves, im not a Silmarillion fan. What is boiling my blood is the writing/dialogue (the acting also, but that i can forgive), but everything sounds just so pseudo complex, trying desperate to be epic and crypt and poetic,

Having a daughter already, by the original chronology. But they've clearly changed things. I'm not too fussed about it. It makes more sense for an adaptation to show this gradually, rather than just going "oh yeah by the way I have a husband and daughter somewhere, gg" which wouldn't be good storytelling for the show.

Of course, it would not be good, who could think this Galadriel could have a husband and a child.

Plus, how they could make her have feelings about Totally-not-Sauron if she is married?

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Which they shouldn't, since they're not legally allowed to use any material outside of the 3 LotR books.

You could still read for reference in your writing though...

[Dhrizzle]

Which they shouldn't, since they're not legally allowed to use any material outside of the 3 LotR books.

Legally they can use whatever the Tolkien Estate says they can use on a case-by-case basis. A few years back Tom Shippey said he was confident they'd pretty much automatically be able to use materials directly related to the story.

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Basically, you are telling me, that everyone is exhausted, because the journey, but Galadriel will not stop, by no reason, even with exhaustion, cause she is better than everyone.

That is exactly the problem of the show.

Being better than everyone is pretty much how Galadriel is written. What we are seeing is her being unable to properly engage with the other Elves to bring them to her way of seeing things which is a flaw in her character we'll probably see being ironed out through the course of the series because that is how storytelling works.

That she is old enough to not be an insufferable bitch

Does anyone else find it tiresomely predictable how if a female character isn't perfectly nice and has flaws that representnl challenges get along with others a certain type of person will have to constantly point out what a massive bitch she is, using the word repeatedly in a single post?

[InfiniteCharger]

That's seriously flawed reasoning, though. "All elves should be strong and athletic" is NOT the same as "all elves should be EQUALLY strong and athletic", which would have to be the case here for Galadriel not to stand out. But that goes counter to the idea of heroes in narrative epics, which are a big part of Tolkien's inspiration and reference material, and a stated template for his mythology.

You're asking why a band of starved, exhausted, frostbitten elves aren't shown to be just as strong as a driven, grudge-fueled, heroic warrior counted among the best of her entire race in all of their history. The answer is... that's how heroic epics work.

Do you ever not create strawmen in order to defend yourself? I said the men in her squad should have been able to defend themselves without her against that troll, because they all should have been trained and skilled enough as members of this 'special' mission to find Sauron. That is on top of every Elf being strong and athletic to a degree. And again, you love to argue that other people's are bad or invalid as if only your opinion counts. And on top of that, go pages and pages on it. Lets just stop with this nonsense here. Those other men in that squad should have been able to do a better job against the troll. They should have been depicted as much more capable fighters, even if Galadriel is better. This isn't a Tolkien issue it is a writing issue for this series.

Also, like I said, we don't see anything about how elves train to fight, how athletic they are in general because it wasn't show in any flashbacks or anything else. Not to mention we never saw what kinds of weapons they typically use or what kinds of combat training they get. And on top of that, we never see the "army" that she is supposedly leader of. What kind of army is 10 people? If she is a leader of an army she doesn't have to go to the High King and ask for permission to use her troops to find Sauron. All of that is completely missing from this series as if they cannot afford enough extras or sets to show her having an army, troops, equipment, a fort, supplies or anything. Its all cut rate, 10 men that can't fight, style diluted hint of army devoid of actual substance.

Tolkien wrote his story decades before DnD and MMOs where racial abilities, skills, affinities, weapons, armor and combat ratings existed. So it makes sense that he wouldn't write his story in a way to reflect all the details of those things. However, if they are writing this show to be more 'up to date' then they obviously could have shown more of that in this series.

For goodness sakes they could have looked at the mocap and choreography of any number of modern Game Trailers to get a good idea of how to make an epic fight scene:


And the reason why I chose Elder scrolls specifically is because there is no dialog in any of these trailers, to reflect the unique traits of each class/racial in this party and how they contrast and support each other effectively in combat.

Why are you just ignoring the negatives? The followed her for centuries for those reasons; they decide to STOP following her for a DIFFERENT reason, namely that they think she's being irrational and obsessive because of her grudge and that puts them all (and herself) in danger. NOT because they suddenly stopped thinking she was a great warrior.

That is a contradiction is my point. It is not consistent with what is being shown or what actually happens. You don't decide to exile one of your best warriors because she is doing her job, especially when you have proof that she is right. That makes absolutely no sense. And like I said, this contradictory element of the story is so they can get her on a boat with Halbrand and then to Numenor.

You can't just remove the main problem from your argument and then go "I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS HAPPENS MAKES NO SENSE". It makes no sense to you because you chose to ignore the most important part.

Here we go again with you trying to argue other can't have opinions. Everything with you boils down to this. And really I don't have time for another 10 pages of back and forth with you about it.

The only thing YOU are telling us is that you think being a great leader is only about being a skilled warrior, and that deeply troubling character flaws somehow don't matter in how someone is regarded. Which means... you either don't understand this, or you're deliberately ignoring it to try and justify your negative reaction.

What I am saying is they haven't shown her character flaws as being part of this story. She went out to find Sauron and she found evidence that indeed he is active. Then her trooops abandoned her and they were all sent away for "exile". That wasn't about any character flaws. What character flaws? She saved her squad from the troll by killing it by herself, so where is the character flaw in that. You are trying to defend this writing and contradictory story line with some 'character flaw' that is not evident because the writing doesn't actually show it. If they went and looked for Sauron and didn't find anything that would be one thing, but they actually found what they were looking for. So there is nothing shown that reinforces her 'character flaws'. In fact after sending her to exile they find the black corruption on the leaves, again reinforcing she is right and a 'badass'. All of this silly nonsense because this series is not respecting her and empowering her like they claim to be. It is a complete contradiction.

You seem to have completely missed my explanation of how this "exile" works; and/or are not familiar with the lore. THEY ALREADY ARE IN EXILE. Middle Earth is their exile. The Noldor rebelled and LEFT Aman. They refused a command by their gods. Going back to the Undying Lands is ENDING their exile, it's the greatest reward they could hope for. Galadriel refuses - and deep down she knows she isn't worthy, too. That's why she remains in Middle Earth for countless more centuries, until she finally achieves the maturity to overcome her own character flaws and is worthy of returning at the end of LotR. That's, you know, the main character arc for Galadriel of the Noldor. That's the WHOLE POINT of her story (and, by extension, of the story of Fëanor, who could not overcome his flaws).

I get what you mean and this problem of 'exile' from 'exile' comes from the way the show is written. Whatever you want to call it, sending someone to Valinor is a one way trip for infinity. You can quibble about calling it exile if you want and that is fine. But the point is they sent her away ....... forever, not to return to Middle Earth. So effectively it is exile even if in the context of the elves, not being in valinor is the exile. And stop bringing up Feaonor. He isn't in this series at all and was never mentioned in the flashbacks. You are not even talking about what is actually in this series by introducing stuff from Tolkien to try and prop up the writing in this show.

That's not the Galadriel we see, because that's not the part of her life those passages talk about. They talk about early Galadriel - where she is a self-confident woman with attitude enough to metaphorically spit in the face of the greatest of her people three times; and rebel enough to defy an order by her own gods so she can sail off and wage war. And they talk about late Galadriel - where she has become a ruler and advisor in relative seclusion, and ultimately achieves enlightenment enough to return to Valinor. We see practically nothing of her from the in-between times, the height of the wars of the Noldor and Fëanor's curse. There is no book material about that Galadriel.

You're basically saying "she was X as a kid, and Y as a grandmother, SO HOW COME THE REST OF HER LIFE SHE ACTS SO DIFFERENTLY?". Yes. Why. I wonder.

I am talking about how there was no disrespect, getting into fights and being sent back to Valinor in the books. What is in this series is not a reflection of what is in the books at all. What this show is writing is a completely made up story and isn't 'filling in' anything. It is a complete contradiction of what is actually in the books. In the books, if she said there was a hint of Sauron, the elves would have taken action. Period. Because that is what Tolkien actually wrote about her and the elves at this point in the 2nd age.

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You understand that for the Elves the Undying Lands are literally heaven, right? They bask in the spiritual glow of the literal gods and know no hardship or suffering. Every Elf in Middle-earth feels a longing to go West, one that is enhanced in those who had already dwelt there. For everyone on that boat this "exile" is their deepest desire. In the canon Galadriel was offered pardon by the Valar and refused it as she felt there was still a dark stain left in the wake of Morgoth and it was her duty to contest it (with a hint of her still wishing to dominate lands of her own.) The boat ride allows the showrunners to portray the same decision being made without falling foul of the licensing agreement.

The scene with her brother was mostly an Easter egg with the (presumed) sons of Fëanor sinking her boat as an allusion to the First Kinslaying.

And she isn't being rejected for being female, she's being rejected for being a voice of war when everyone else wants peace. Canonically Galadriel knew there was a dark threat looming but for everyone else she seems driven by the loss of her brother.

It is written that way to show that she is right about Sauron, but the elves dont respect her and then get her onto a boat with Halbrand, a completely made up character, so both of them can wind up in Numenor, a place she never went to in the Lore. All so they can have this made up fight against the orcs with the Numenorians and Ta Miriel that never happened. That literally is what this show's story is telling us.

[Dhrizzle]

That is a contradiction is my point. It is not consistent with what is being shown or what actually happens. You don't decide to exile one of your best warriors because she is doing her job, especially when you have proof that she is right. That makes absolutely no sense. And like I said, this contradictory element of the story is so they can get her on a boat with Halbrand and then to Numenor.

Getting sent to Aman is not "exile." If you can't grasp something so fundamental to the setting then it is really hard taking you seriously.

What I am saying is they haven't shown her character flaws as being part of this story.

If her flaws weren't part of the story then she would have been able to persuade Gil-galad and Elrond how right and necessary her actions were. They would have been on-side with her plans instead of thinking she had to return home to find peace.

I get what you mean and this problem of 'exile' from 'exile' comes from the way the show is written. Whatever you want to call it, sending someone to Valinor is a one way trip for infinity.

And the show explicitly states that it is a fantastic reward through Elrond gushing about how wonderful he thinks it will be, Galadriel describing her longing to return and the rapturous looks on the other soldiers. Galadriel isn't escaping exile when she jumps ship, she is giving up her hearts desire through a sense of duty.

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It is written that way to show that she is right about Sauron, but the elves dont respect her and then get her onto a boat with Halbrand, a completely made up character, so both of them can wind up in Numenor, a place she never went to in the Lore. All so they can have this made up fight against the orcs with the Numenorians and Ta Miriel that never happened. That literally is what this show's story is telling us.

And that could have been shown in any number of ways, but they chose a way that deliberately mirrors one of the most significant choices Galadriel made in her life.

Also it isn't a lack of respect from the other Elves, more concern that she is on a self-destructive path that could drag others with her.

[InfiniteCharger]

Getting sent to Aman is not "exile." If you can't grasp something so fundamental to the setting then it is really hard taking you seriously.

It is being sent away forever not to return to Middle Earth. Ever. What part of that do you not agree with?

If her flaws weren't part of the story then she would have been able to persuade Gil-galad and Elrond how right and necessary her actions were. They would have been on-side with her plans instead of thinking she had to return home to find peace.

What flaws did they actually support with the writing of the show? You keep saying this but these flaws aren't actually shown and it is a complete contradiction. If she is a badass that isn't a flaw. If she is right about Sauron, that isn't a flaw either. So what flaws are you talking about?

And the show explicitly states that it is a fantastic reward through Elrond gushing about how wonderful he thinks it will be, Galadriel describing her longing to return and the rapturous looks on the other soldiers. Galadriel isn't escaping exile when she jumps ship, she is giving up her hearts desire through a sense of duty.

They showed that as them getting rid of her for being a pest in the dialog that takes place after. It isn't a reward and this is why she swims away towards Halbrand. The show itself is not showing it as a reward because if it was she wouldn't be shown swimming away from it. It completely shows that she is dedicated to her duty to the point that she would turn away from eternal rest and peace to go back and fight Sauron. Which she shouldn't have to do because the Elves should already be believing and trusting her insight. That is the contradiction. All of that was totally and completely unnecessary.

And that could have been shown in any number of ways, but they chose a way that deliberately mirrors one of the most significant choices Galadriel made in her life.

Also it isn't a lack of respect from the other Elves, more concern that she is on a self-destructive path that could drag others with her.

No it is not a reflection of anything in Tolkien because when she was exiled from Valinor she wanted to rule her own kingdoms and none of the Elves stopped her from doing that. They did not disrespect her or second guess her judgement. When she said that she sensed Sauron stirring, they didn't second guess her, try to send her to Valinor or send her on a quest to prove it either. They simply acted on it because she was one of the oldest, most wisest and respected of the Noldor. This series in no way shape or form reflects any of that.

[CostinR]

I watched episode 1, I can say the production values were incredible, the way they designed the world really feels like Middle Earth, and their portrayal of the hobbits was absolutely spot on.

Like many others I didn't like the drama around Galadriel, just seems absolutely pointless to have this whole rebel arc to her, and for what? Outside that I quite like it: It feels like they put in a lot of effort and care into what they did.

[Aphrel]

Watched two episodes, and it made me think of the last game of thrones season. Environment and sets looks gorgeous but the dialogue and story is very cringe and at some times the dumbest shit you couldn't even make up yourself.

Not sure what the series will shape up into but my hopes are low.

Not sure what they thought when designing their elf's. Only that elf that went down the orc hole and Galadriel looks even remotely athletic. The rest looks off, like when you saw Matt Damon in the Thor movies pretending to be Loki in that theater play scene, it looks intentionally comical and insulting to the character.

Did someone forget to make them look agile and graceful? Have the producers forgotten that a thing called makeup exist?

Do they think Orlando Bloom played Legolas without makeup!?!?

[Xath]

It's funny, I've been hearing this (or versions of it) a lot, and it's kind of weird that people are missing the real point.

If Tolkien wrote this way today, he probably would be called a bigot at least; and probably rightly so.

BUUUUUT

If Tolkien was a contemporary author, he also, you know, WOULDN'T WRITE NOW LIKE HE DID THEN.

You can't just transplant history without observing context. Aristotle didn't speak out against slavery, and thought of it as a normal way of life. Does that mean he'd still be a happy slave owner in the present day? NO. His entire thinking would be radically different if he had been born in the 20th century instead of the -4th century, and to pretend otherwise is poisoning the well for that particular argument from the start.

You can't look at a book written 70 years ago and evaluate it by today's standards. That's ridiculous at the best of times, and downright ludicrous when it's fiction.

No he would not be called a bigot wtf are you on? There are plenty of fantasy series that are primarily white or primarily black and nobody except idiots calls those authors bigots.

Hell most of the books I'm currently reading are 99% Chinese and nobody calls that bigoted.

[Romanthony]

Im just watching some reviews about it, and one contains a interview with the show runners who actually said "It was hard work building a world from NOTHING" They actually said that?

yes hard to build a world from nothing

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod...0&resize=980:*

Just ignore 12 books of source material

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I haven't watched it yet because the trailers didn't sell me on it. it doesn't seem like it's Tolkien's story, it's just a random YA fantasy set in Tolkien's world.

And when I saw even Grace Randolph, who I generally don't put a lot of weight on her reviews, call Galadriel both a Mary Sue and a Karen wrapped into one package, that cemented my choice.

I'm not interested in Twitter's version of Tolkien's work. They would be busy calling him a fascist if he were alive today, rather than trying to profit off of his work.

There is no possible way to call Galadriel a Mary Sue in this unless you just don’t know what Mary Sue actually means even in the looses sense. The first two episodes have her failing almost every thing she does other then a single fight with a troll.

[OwenBurton]

I agree that the portrayal isn't great, and the actress in particular has apparently not understood the character (or was not made to understand it by directors/producers, which they should have taken care to). But that's the implementation of a character that, at least in principle, is sound. The details aren't good. But the direction is.

So far, anyway. Could well be that she spirals into absurdity completely two more episodes in. We don't know yet.

The thing is, Clark is not a natural fit for the role, even many people who liked some parts of the series have offered very limited praise for her portrayal in particular. Perhaps she gets better in the next 2-3 episodes, and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. But the thing is, the premise of a protagonist is supposed to instantly impress most people, fans old and new alike, and I don't think this was it.

I am not even sure its fair for me to say she is a good Galadriel, she has moments but I think that's more down to the stuff going on around her, and camera shots. Also it may be my more familiarity with the movies over the books, but she looks way too human. Personally I would have been totally fine if the role of Galadriel wasnt even Galadriel but an entirely new character.

and as much as I think the show so far is... fine... I honest feel they should have went the Shadow of Mordor route and just bring us new characters in a second age setting with maybe some cameos thrown in.

You assume I 'loved' the show. That's cute. I got lots of complaints about the show, I thought the show was decent at best. I Just think most of the complaints about the show are unwarranted and dumb. I am yet to be wowed. By the end of the season I could hate the show, who knows. The biggest praise I have for the show is the musical score and the costume design for the orcs

This forum tends to be very hyperbolic, like the show can either only be good or bad and never in-between. Thankfully I am the in-between. (which feels like the Last Jedi all over again ugh)

Even if we try to ignore her general acting, she is not really complex or fleshed out as a character. I needed to SEE what this character's real background was like, for example, her relationship with Finrod outside of talking about toy boats and being mocked by other Elf children. She seems incredibly flat and unenergetic with no real sophisticated character development, she wanted to kill Sauron because her brother was killed off-screen...okay, so does thousands of other Elves who lost family members. She just seems like a carbon copy of a random female Game of Thrones character that was taken and traded to the Tolkien franchise. What makes Galadriel special or unique? What makes her a real hero? What illustrates her deepest strengths and flaws as an individual? Why are we supposed to be rooting for her triumphs and achievements?

It's like this new Galadriel is almost a female human, but at the same time, they didn't really humanize her enough, so either way, it does not quite work. I needed to see her in-depth and profound personal struggles and silent failings growing up, as such as whether she fought alongside Finrod, and a scene actually crying and mourning his death at a funeral, perhaps something involving her parents and other family members, and exactly HOW she became this Commander, and HOW she became friends with Elrond and other Elves. For example, perhaps they should have shown Finrod training young Galadriel rather than the two of them sitting besides a stream talking about something entirely irrelevant.

The first 2 episodes seem incredibly hastily rushed and compacted in a way that the Fellowship of the Ring did not seem to feel, the entire pacing and plot seemed flawed from the beginning, emphasizing things that do not very much matter and choosing to actively jump or gloss over things that really do.

[infinitemeridian]

I don't understand the complaint about Clark's acting. It's great, in fact the acting in general is quite good. If you don't like the direction of the character, that's one thing, but don't disparage the actress for doing a good job with what she's given.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't understand the complaint about Clark's acting. It's great, in fact the acting in general is quite good. If you don't like the direction of the character, that's one thing, but don't disparage the actress for doing a good job with what she's given.

I’ve been absolutely loving her acting, her scene with Elrond was really a stand out with her facial expressions really selling that she’s pissed but still sticks to the calm elf demeanou.