1. #3881
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    So if I understand you correctly, the only argument you have against a black elf appearing in an unexplained fashion, is suspension of disbelief.

    Do you see my point that suspension of disbelief about a black elf gives a certain impression, of the suspension of disbelief around dragons, wizards, felbeasts, flat worlds that get curved by wrath of gods etc, does not?
    As I said above, much like a tall dwarf.

    Can it happen? Sure, but you're going to need to explain it. The world you are speaking of has dragons, wizards, etc. The audience buys into that when they delve into the story. If all the elves are pale, then you need to explain the dark skinned one. If all the dwarves are short, you need to explain the tall one.

    If all the dragons are evil monsters, the polite, kind one is going to need an explanation.

    When you have a world with the rules set up, and then you break them, you need to explain WHY they broke or else the audience loses their ability to "accept this world". You can do it, but you need to give it a reason that works inside the world you are playing in.

  2. #3882
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    As I said above, much like a tall dwarf.

    Can it happen? Sure, but you're going to need to explain it. The world you are speaking of has dragons, wizards, etc. The audience buys into that when they delve into the story. If all the elves are pale, then you need to explain the dark skinned one. If all the dwarves are short, you need to explain the tall one.

    If all the dragons are evil monsters, the polite, kind one is going to need an explanation.

    When you have a world with the rules set up, and then you break them, you need to explain WHY they broke or else the audience loses their ability to "accept this world". You can do it, but you need to give it a reason that works inside the world you are playing in.
    you are asking to be spoonfed like a baby instead of being able to read between the lines.

  3. #3883
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    So if I understand you correctly, the only argument you have against a black elf appearing in an unexplained fashion, is suspension of disbelief.

    Do you see my point that suspension of disbelief about a black elf gives a certain impression, of the suspension of disbelief around dragons, wizards, felbeasts, flat worlds that get curved by wrath of gods etc, does not?
    That mostly because those that get that impression forget about the context of the settings. Classic mistake.

  4. #3884
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Did game of thrones or the new house of dragons have black people? Did people think that was "woke"? Why is one fantasy setting okay, but the other not? Aren't the two very similar in terms of magic dragons and what not? Haven't seen GoT but I know it was very popular

  5. #3885
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Did game of thrones or the new house of dragons have black people? Did people think that was "woke"? Why is one fantasy setting okay, but the other not? Aren't the two very similar in terms of magic dragons and what not? Haven't seen GoT but I know it was very popular
    Omg you havent seen GoT!?

  6. #3886
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Did game of thrones or the new house of dragons have black people? Did people think that was "woke"? Why is one fantasy setting okay, but the other not? Aren't the two very similar in terms of magic dragons and what not? Haven't seen GoT but I know it was very popular
    There are but there were not inserted for the sake of diversity. That's the difference.

  7. #3887
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    As I said above, much like a tall dwarf.

    Can it happen? Sure, but you're going to need to explain it. The world you are speaking of has dragons, wizards, etc. The audience buys into that when they delve into the story. If all the elves are pale, then you need to explain the dark skinned one. If all the dwarves are short, you need to explain the tall one.

    If all the dragons are evil monsters, the polite, kind one is going to need an explanation.

    When you have a world with the rules set up, and then you break them, you need to explain WHY they broke or else the audience loses their ability to "accept this world". You can do it, but you need to give it a reason that works inside the world you are playing in.
    Should they explain why some elves have big feet and others have small feet?

    Only features you find relevant need to be explained. In my view their colour simply isn't relevant, in yours it is.

  8. #3888
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    There are but there were not inserted for the sake of diversity. That's the difference.
    had the exact same complaints in the got thread about black people as there are in this one.

  9. #3889
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    you are asking to be spoonfed like a baby instead of being able to read between the lines.
    Which is mindboggling when it comes from people so adamant that they're high-minded book readers. I find the need to have everything explained from the start is typically an American trait, but it seems to be becoming somewhat more prevalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    There are but there were not inserted for the sake of diversity. That's the difference.
    Are you sure? Why is Corlys Velaryon a black guy when he was originally white then?

  10. #3890
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArminVanburkek View Post
    Omg you havent seen GoT!?
    Seen it as in blasted all over social media and merchandise yes.

    Actually sat down and watched it? No, it's been on my HBO Max watch list for a few years now, it really doesn't look all that fun to me. Like Skyrim if it was a soap opera.

  11. #3891
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That mostly because those that get that impression forget about the context of the settings. Classic mistake.
    Do elaborate on how the context of a fictional setting is an issue. Because I genuinely don't see it.

  12. #3892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    By your own subjective metrics you've deduced, that any review below 4 cannot be constructive by default?
    Honestly, I started watching the series without the whole "LotR purist" background. And still, couldn't be disappointed more. From me, it's been 3/10 at best. I really struggled watching these 2 episodes which saddened me deeply.
    CGI, as beatiful as it is (after all it's 90mils poured into a single episode), it's absolutely EVERYWHERE. Authenticity is almost non-existent. Dialogs are probably the worst part of this show so far. Character development is just a massive exposition.

    These two episode can easily be summed up with: tell, don't show, which is an anti-pattern of story-writing, backed with a hollywood-scale budget.

    I never said below 4 cannot be subjective or anything, all reviews are constructive when they are written constructively, I was merely giving an example.

    Tell, don't show isn't inheritably bad, its become such a crutch with what people who don't know what they are talking about use when they feel with someone is too obsessed with thinking they are being preached to instead of shutting up and just showing us. That's not to say that I am totally for it, its a matter of knowing when to show and when to tell.

    There have been good videos on when tell don't show can be a force for good.

    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-05 at 01:16 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  13. #3893
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Seen it as in blasted all over social media and merchandise yes.

    Actually sat down and watched it? No, it's been on my HBO Max watch list for a few years now, it really doesn't look all that fun to me. Like Skyrim if it was a soap opera.
    GoT is the best fantasy series of all time sofar, it was addictive.

  14. #3894
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Did game of thrones or the new house of dragons have black people? Did people think that was "woke"? Why is one fantasy setting okay, but the other not? Aren't the two very similar in terms of magic dragons and what not? Haven't seen GoT but I know it was very popular
    In house of the dragon it's very well made and feels natural, Coralis is married into the family because he is a lord with a great fleet. Their children are mixed, it all works like you would expect it to in the setting. That is the big difference for me, no complaints about House of the dragon, enjoying it very much.

  15. #3895
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Which is mindboggling when it comes from people so adamant that they're high-minded book readers. I find the need to have everything explained from the start is typically an American trait, but it seems to be becoming somewhat more prevalent.


    Are you sure? Why is Corlys Velaryon a black guy when he was originally white then?
    Because the Got world is already far more mixed and diverse than Lotr.

  16. #3896
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because the Got world is already far more mixed and diverse than Lotr.
    So they changed him to increase the representative diversity on screen then?

  17. #3897
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because the Got world is already far more mixed and diverse than Lotr.
    Those middle eastern folk? What they were called?

  18. #3898
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArminVanburkek View Post
    GoT is the best fantasy series of all time sofar, it was addictive.
    I'll just take your word for it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ArminVanburkek View Post
    Those middle eastern folk? What they were called?
    The Haradrim

  19. #3899
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Seen it as in blasted all over social media and merchandise yes.

    Actually sat down and watched it? No, it's been on my HBO Max watch list for a few years now, it really doesn't look all that fun to me. Like Skyrim if it was a soap opera.
    GoT = skyrim as a soap opera is my favourite take ^^

  20. #3900
    The difference between the Rings of Power and Game of Thrones is that the diversity in GoT is consistent and makes sense.

    In GoT, the skin color (and even hair and eye color) are distinctive traits of specific regions of the world. Hell, it's even a main driving point of the story at the start that leads to Ned Stark being executed. You'll notice that next to no one complained about it there because it made sense.

    In RoP it's none of that. Just random actors thrown together in a ridiculous and inconsistent ways. That's where the problem is. It's not racism, it's just confusing and nonsensical. Hence lots of people bringing it up and trying to make sense of it. If they had, for example, decided that all of the dwarves would be played by black actors and all of the elves would be played by Hispanic ones, that would be odd but at least it would be consistent and make sense within the context of the world.

    People in small societies with little to no travel breed with people in the same societies, leading to people who look a hell of a lot a like. Even if there's the occasional outlier, their traits will quickly be absorbed and blended in within a few generations. It's not rocket science or racist.
    Last edited by Rocksteady 87; 2022-09-05 at 01:41 PM.

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