1. #3921
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    But it's not a real world? It is a fantasy world. Why would there need to be regional distinction between people with different skin colors? Just because it works that way on Earth, doesn't mean it has to in a magical fantasy setting.
    A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

    A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, far left, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise, clashing with both the source material and common sense.

    You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2022-09-05 at 03:10 PM.

  2. #3922
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

    A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise.

    You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.
    I mean it could be believable, it could be a subject that nobody dares to talk about in the lotr series.

  3. #3923
    This thread has been warned multiple times, including in the OP, to stop discussing social agendas and perceptions of tokenism. Infractions have been handed out. Further derailing will lead to further infractions.

  4. #3924
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

    A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, far left, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise, clashing with both the source material and common sense.

    You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.
    Yea, that scene when Arondir talked about defunding the police seemed a bit out of place. Or when Disa started chanting "Black Dwarves Matter!!" I don't remember that from the LOTR... You people that get triggered when black people and women appear in fiction are truly pathetic. It must be a sad existence to live with such hate in your hearts.

  5. #3925
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Can we not move on from this shit, like c'mon...
    almost 200 pages, and almost 4000 replies. Both sides are like dumb and dumber, sitting here for hours debating nonsense to feed their addiction of "being right". The internet truly is a mental asylum giving them strong voice. Nobody talks like this irl, unless he wanna be ignored. But here, they tend to find each other.

  6. #3926
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    I hope Amazon creates a LOTR streaming universe and shows the way Disney spams MCU shows. For no real reason but to antagonize the Tolkien fundamentalists

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  7. #3927
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I hope Amazon creates a LOTR streaming universe and shows the way Disney spams MCU shows. For no real reason but to antagonize the Tolkien fundamentalists
    as much as I like RoP, please no... no more frikkin universes, those are the reasons I no longer watch Star Wars and MCU.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  8. #3928
    As someone who never liked the movies, I'm enjoying the show so far. It's not amazing but I'm willing to see where it goes.

  9. #3929
    How you dudes and dudettes can go hundreds of pages about the same, mostly irrelevant issue, is actually baffling.

    More power to you, i guess.

    As for the show, so far it's been fun. Some issues, but overall an enjoyable experience, looking forward to the rest.

  10. #3930
    I had no idea people didn't like Galadriel till I read it in this thread. Maybe its because I know that she's right that I excuse her being so obsessed with finding Sauron.

  11. #3931
    Im just mad that the Dwarven women didnt have beards. The fuck... Show is ruined.

  12. #3932
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    With all due respect, that still would not make much sense, if you carefully think about it.

    Commander Galadriel and her 9-10 elves were searching for Sauron for (I think) several years alone and unaided, they had finally reached the northern wastes of the Arctic.

    If a young and relatively inexperienced Galadriel (no Ring, no Phial, no Celeborn, no White Council, no other non-elf and Wizard allies) with no powers could defeat Sauron, then the average young Elf would be roughly equal to a powerful Maia in this new Tolkien universe.
    I'm not saying that Galadriel and co. Could have taken Sauron but she is canonically the greatest of the Elves in Middle-earth probably from the time Thingol dies to the return of Glorfindel, so far from being the average young Elf.

    Say Galadriel and her elves found Sauron, somehow fought him to a standstill or otherwise survived / escaped. Then what? They would spend several more months returning to the other Elves, and then when they finally returned and persuaded the Elf-lords to believe their story and act, no easy feat in itself, Gil-galad would then spend several more months preparing an army.

    And then they would spend ANOTHER several months going to the Arctic with that army, hoping against hope that Sauron and all his minions patiently stayed put wherever they were and didn't simply seek out a new hiding place, and that they might possibly win against him despite giving him lots of time to prepare his own forces? Either way, it seems like a really fragile, confusing and short-sighted plan with much room for failure and disaster.
    If Galadriel could come back with evidence of recent Sauron activity then Gil-galad wouldn't wind down the war effort and would instead increase vigilance. It doesn't have to result in them instantly gathering a hunting party to track him down.

  13. #3933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I had no idea people didn't like Galadriel till I read it in this thread. Maybe its because I know that she's right that I excuse her being so obsessed with finding Sauron.
    She just seems very dull to me as a character. I am more interested in the Harfoots and Dwarfs, even Elrond showed some character in the second episode. Her scenes are not bad, just the less exciting of the other arcs going on :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-05 at 05:36 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  14. #3934
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    So people are still banging on about the heinous decision to force us to see a black person on screen. Have we decided yet how, exactly, their skin color effects the story?

    Which of Arondir's scenes, specifically, would have been improved if he was played by a white guy instead? Was it the one where he was patrolling the town? The one where he got the news that they'd be finishing their duty and going home? The one where he talked with the woman from the village about his feelings? Or maybe it was the one where he was searching for the orcs/source of the corruption in the tunnels.
    Since you refuse to get it, it's immersion breaking. Let's talk about a movie set in Central Africa and there is randomly one dude who is white in this landlocked area. Exact same speech patterns as everyone else and he's just randomly white the entire rest of the cast is African. No explanation of how he randomly ended up there and by all accounts was born there. That is immersion breaking and jarring I really don't get why this is so hard to get. We are talking about two isolationist groups here. I would also be annoyed if they did an episode with the Haradrim and there were random white dudes because reasons. No hair color is not equivalent to skin color in the slightest and never has been in terms of genetics.

  15. #3935
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I hope Amazon creates a LOTR streaming universe and shows the way Disney spams MCU shows. For no real reason but to antagonize the Tolkien fundamentalists
    I think the best thing they could do is let Kevin Smith write and star in a Gimli and Legolas series with Jason Mewes.


  16. #3936
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's still rooted in a setting where a certain level of technology places them comparably to periods of our own history.

    Even if magic is involved, it's not like you could swap in a smartphone in place of the Palantir and just pretend it works in a setting where people are travelling on foot and horseback and still wield swords in combat, just because 'it's not comparable to our history'. Well, certain things absolutely are. Like catapults could be considered reasonable weapons of war in the setting even if they aren't directly mentioned in the books, because they are still comparable to our own medieval history which the world loosely draw inspiration from.
    I think the issue here is that too many people in this thread (and just in general I guess) are terribly uneducated when it comes to this type of history. I'm no expert on the matter either, but even the most rudimentary amount of research debunks the idea of Middle-earth being medieval.

    You mention horses, swords, and catapults as apparent indications of a certain time period when horses were domesticated in Europe about 5,000 years before the Middle Ages, and iron swords and catapults were invented hundreds of years before that period as well. To make things even more complicated, Middle-earth has things like potatoes and tobacco which weren't even introduced to Europe until AFTER the Middle Ages.

    People also seem to have this view of the Middle Ages as just a period of time with knights and castles, when in reality the Middle Ages spanned 1,000 years and saw an enormous amount of change over the course of the era. In Peter Jackson's RotK, Minas Tirith has counterweight trebuchets which were invented in the late medieval period, but agriculturally Middle-earth seems to be no where near where Europe was by this period. Even plate armor, which seems to be ubiquitous in these types of fantasy settings, wasn't developed until the final decades of the Late Middle Ages and was more of a Renaissance thing.

    There's also the matter of travel and trade. A lot of people in this thread seem to view Middle-earth as a place with little of both, leading to fairly isolated groups of people. If that were true then it's even farther removed from the Middle Ages which only continued building on the foundation of connectivity that the Roman Empire had introduced to the continent prior to the Middle Ages.

    So no, there is no comparable period of human history where Middle-earth is set. That was by the design of the author, and any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply wrong, and based on an incredibly simplistic idea of what the medieval period actually was.

  17. #3937
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Since you refuse to get it, it's immersion breaking. Let's talk about a movie set in Central Africa and there is randomly one dude who is white in this landlocked area. Exact same speech patterns as everyone else and he's just randomly white the entire rest of the cast is African. No explanation of how he randomly ended up there and by all accounts was born there. That is immersion breaking and jarring I really don't get why this is so hard to get. We are talking about two isolationist groups here. I would also be annoyed if they did an episode with the Haradrim and there were random white dudes because reasons. No hair color is not equivalent to skin color in the slightest and never has been in terms of genetics.
    Not really. Either he has recent white ancestry of it'd an unusual genetic coincidence or Illuvatar decided the correct hröa for this particular fëa should be lighter skinned.

  18. #3938
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I think the issue here is that too many people in this thread (and just in general I guess) are terribly uneducated when it comes to this type of history. I'm no expert on the matter either, but even the most rudimentary amount of research debunks the idea of Middle-earth being medieval.

    You mention horses, swords, and catapults as apparent indications of a certain time period when horses were domesticated in Europe about 5,000 years before the Middle Ages, and iron swords and catapults were invented hundreds of years before that period as well. To make things even more complicated, Middle-earth has things like potatoes and tobacco which weren't even introduced to Europe until AFTER the Middle Ages.

    People also seem to have this view of the Middle Ages as just a period of time with knights and castles, when in reality the Middle Ages spanned 1,000 years and saw an enormous amount of change over the course of the era. In Peter Jackson's RotK, Minas Tirith has counterweight trebuchets which were invented in the late medieval period, but agriculturally Middle-earth seems to be no where near where Europe was by this period. Even plate armor, which seems to be ubiquitous in these types of fantasy settings, wasn't developed until the final decades of the Late Middle Ages and was more of a Renaissance thing.

    There's also the matter of travel and trade. A lot of people in this thread seem to view Middle-earth as a place with little of both, leading to fairly isolated groups of people. If that were true then it's even farther removed from the Middle Ages which only continued building on the foundation of connectivity that the Roman Empire had introduced to the continent prior to the Middle Ages.

    So no, there is no comparable period of human history where Middle-earth is set. That was by the design of the author, and any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply wrong, and based on an incredibly simplistic idea of what the medieval period actually was.
    Yet the anachronisms are generally within reason and applied to a setting where melee combat was how warfare was fought, and there was no advanced technology as far as what could be considered modern. The range of technology is loose enough to be based on a point in time before gunpowder was widely used for hand-weapons. The anachronisms don't make the setting completely unfamiliar to history.

    Like even the Warhammer fantasy setting is completely anachronistic and mixes Aztec culture with Teutonic Knights and Vikings and gunpowder-using Riflemen. Even Dwarves employ 'Tanks', but the setting wouldn't be comparable to say 1920's warfare just because they have access to tanks. It's just how the setting presents itself.

    With Middle Earth, the anachronisms are less egregious.

  19. #3939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I think the issue here is that too many people in this thread (and just in general I guess) are terribly uneducated when it comes to this type of history. I'm no expert on the matter either, but even the most rudimentary amount of research debunks the idea of Middle-earth being medieval.

    You mention horses, swords, and catapults as apparent indications of a certain time period when horses were domesticated in Europe about 5,000 years before the Middle Ages, and iron swords and catapults were invented hundreds of years before that period as well. To make things even more complicated, Middle-earth has things like potatoes and tobacco which weren't even introduced to Europe until AFTER the Middle Ages.

    People also seem to have this view of the Middle Ages as just a period of time with knights and castles, when in reality the Middle Ages spanned 1,000 years and saw an enormous amount of change over the course of the era. In Peter Jackson's RotK, Minas Tirith has counterweight trebuchets which were invented in the late medieval period, but agriculturally Middle-earth seems to be no where near where Europe was by this period. Even plate armor, which seems to be ubiquitous in these types of fantasy settings, wasn't developed until the final decades of the Late Middle Ages and was more of a Renaissance thing.

    There's also the matter of travel and trade. A lot of people in this thread seem to view Middle-earth as a place with little of both, leading to fairly isolated groups of people. If that were true then it's even farther removed from the Middle Ages which only continued building on the foundation of connectivity that the Roman Empire had introduced to the continent prior to the Middle Ages.

    So no, there is no comparable period of human history where Middle-earth is set. That was by the design of the author, and any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply wrong, and based on an incredibly simplistic idea of what the medieval period actually was.
    Well as I said a few pages back the Númenóreans of Gondor were partly inspired by Egyptians (as one of many inspirations) and their religion was Hebrew inspired. I do get that yes there are some Anglo-Saxon inspirations draw into Middle Earth but there is so much more people are missing. I do wonder how many of those offended have even read Tolkien, I am not a Tolkien buff either, but all I had to do is do some five minute research to find these answers lol

    To the people critizing Galadriel for single handed taking down a troll, need I remind you that Legolas defied the laws of gravity to take down a giant elephant in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields... If a women did that holy shit you'd all lose your shit. xD
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-05 at 06:43 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  20. #3940
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    If a young and relatively inexperienced Galadriel
    She is over TWO THOUSAND years old at this point of the show. That's what I meant when I criticized the actress - she makes Galadriel seem like a brat, when she really, really IS NOT.

    We don't know when Finrod died in the show, but in the books, his death was also a good ONE THOUSAND years ago. So she's really been doing this for... quite a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Say Galadriel and her elves found Sauron, somehow fought him to a standstill or otherwise survived / escaped. Then what? They would spend several more months returning to the other Elves, and then when they finally returned and persuaded the Elf-lords to believe their story and act, no easy feat in itself, Gil-galad would then spend several more months preparing an army.

    And then they would spend ANOTHER several months going to the Arctic with that army, hoping against hope that Sauron and all his minions patiently stayed put wherever they were and didn't simply seek out a new hiding place, and that they might possibly win against him despite giving him lots of time to prepare his own forces? Either way, it seems like a really fragile, confusing and short-sighted plan with much room for failure and disaster.
    That's actually not unrealistic at all. That's how warfare worked back in the day.

    People underestimate the sheer problem of communication - just getting messages across took forever, let alone engage in preparations. Not to mention the logistics of mobilization etc. that could take enormous lengths of time. Military campaigns could take YEARS just to get off the ground, and DECADES to finish.

    And Galadriel's main concern is primarily to prove that Sauron is actually still there and still a threat. Locating him once you've gotten an army together is a different matter, which would likely have involved a lot more effort, too, once the main forces of the elves were on board. The only reason Sauron can "hide" as he does is that barely anyone is looking; most of the elves at this point consider him a past threat, and they maintain but a token guard at best (and mostly for his former followers, like humans, not for Sauron himself). If Galadriel came to Gil-galad with proof that Sauron was massing an army, things would be VERY different. There'd be a massive mobilization effort from the elves, scouts would be sent to all corners of the world, and strategies employed to corner the enemy.

    That's how warfare works. First you have to prove there's a threat. Then find that threat. THEN make plans on how to defeat it. You don't go into step 1 knowing all the details of step 3. You couldn't possibly. There's nothing illogical and unrealistic about this in principle. The only thing you can argue is that Galadriel is taking things too far with her zeal - but not that she doesn't just have 50,000 soldiers standing by at all times, because no one would in that situation.

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