1. #4121
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    If you want to look at this show in the dumbest possible way and imagine situations that it clearly shows not happening then have fun but it makes it absolutely pointless discussing things with you.
    Thankfully i don't need to look at it at the dumbest possible way, the show already made the job to be made in the dumbest way possible, but sure, try to attack me cause you can't salvage this shitshow

  2. #4122
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Thankfully i don't need to look at it at the dumbest possible way, the show already made the job to be made in the dumbest way possible, but sure, try to attack me cause you can't salvage this shitshow
    It's kind of ironic. Having to imagine things happening outside what's shown for it to make sense is to look at it in the most dumb way possible.
    Literally every bad series or movie can be made good and make sense if we ignore what's shown and just imagine the good bits.
    It's dumb in the "positive" direction this time though.
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  3. #4123
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    And this would be a good scene to actually SHOW that she does indeed need support.
    Which is the entire point of the argument. Don't IMPLY she needs support, SHOW she needs support. So far the entire opening scene shows she needs nothing of the sort.

    She goes back to Lindon because she can't do it alone, I'm not arguing that isn't the case. Problem is the scenes beforehand showed she needed no support, so why go back because she needs support? That's what makes little sense.




    That entire scene reinforces they are useless bodies. Galadriel not needing them and then they need to help each other just double down on that fact. They can go back, Galadriel can continue, because they have done absolutely nothing to help her and in fact they just show that they slow her down. Tripling down on them being detrimental.
    Yes they could have used the ice wall to show them supporting her but they instead used it to show her not caring about her troops and that while the squad is standing together she is driven to not make sure they are already. This then shows up again when they are in the snow storm and after multiple calls she does actually turn back to show that she’s not fully heart less to the well being of her men.

    Then finally when met with the ultimatum of going on alone she chooses to go back with the Mark to try and drum up new troops for her cause.

    Narratively the scenes exist to show the divides between her and her men while also showing that she’s not so far gone that she will abandon one or think she can go on alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    we see Galadriel way far ahead of all the other Elves, illustrating that she's physically superior them all and doesn't even need to wait for them to catch up.
    I’d say the the rest of the Squad waiting and showing concern about each other shows that Galadriel isn’t thinking about her men and there well being as she’s focused on pushing on.

    This then comes up a couple scenes later in the snow storm where she does actually go back and help showing she’s not completely alienated by there inability to keep up.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #4124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's kind of ironic. Having to imagine things happening outside what's shown for it to make sense is to look at it in the most dumb way possible.
    Literally every bad series or movie can be made good and make sense if we ignore what's shown and just imagine the good bits.
    It's dumb in the "positive" direction this time though.
    Do you agree with Syegfryed that exhausted Elves being battered by a troll shows they are all useless dumbasses, and that Galadriel returning to Lindon for reinforcements shows that she could have carried on the hunt successfully alone?

  5. #4125
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    And this would be a good scene to actually SHOW that she does indeed need support.
    Which is the entire point of the argument. Don't IMPLY she needs support, SHOW she needs support. So far the entire opening scene shows she needs nothing of the sort.
    Is this about the ice troll scene? The one where her support "distracted" it and gave her a "platform" to attack from? This just you, and others, blinding themselves for the sake of propping up a silly argument. You also ignore that they are slowing her down. Their dedication to their sacred task is wilting. This is like saying that everyone in Jacksons trilogy is useless because Frodo ultimately didn't need them for his quest as he does most of it without their help. Yet we know that isn't the case.

    You've reached a conclusion despite the scene and are forcing the lens of bias in order to maintain that conclusion.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #4126
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    lol, wtf dude.

    My entire criticism is based on what we've seen so far, not a criticism of the entire season. Not sure why this gets your panties in a knot.

    You're the one who jumped in to respond to me, I didn't force you to read any of my comments. If you can't deal with me expressing my criticisms, feel free to fuck off.
    You're the one in here with knotted panties, most other people are telling you to chill and let it simmer.

    You're bitching that they haven't shown character arcs setting up where we're at while disregarding that you're literally at the start of the story. This is where things are starting from. The snow troll is the baseline. The useless elf warriors are the baseline. Galadriel being a hotheaded lone wolf is the baseline. It is what it is.

    No one knows where it's going to go yet, but it's stupid to cry that it's not fully set up by episode 2.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2022-09-08 at 06:29 PM.
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    Because fuck you, that's why.

  7. #4127
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Do you agree with Syegfryed that exhausted Elves being battered by a troll shows they are all useless dumbasses, and that Galadriel returning to Lindon for reinforcements shows that she could have carried on the hunt successfully alone?
    The scenes shows she never needed the group to begin with and they were only slowing her down.

    Her returning because she can't carry on alone is the conflict of what's shown and what's being told.
    Hence people complaint about the scenes. Because they are bad and at odds which each others narrative.
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  8. #4128
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I’d say the the rest of the Squad waiting and showing concern about each other shows that Galadriel isn’t thinking about her men and there well being as she’s focused on pushing on.

    This then comes up a couple scenes later in the snow storm where she does actually go back and help showing she’s not completely alienated by there inability to keep up.
    Yes, but the point is whether those scenes are all necessary to the point.

    I'm not criticizing her going back for the Elf that fell after she realized that's what happened. I'm not criticizing her having some semblance of instinctual team work with the springboard scene. I'm making a point that there wasn't really anything there to show that her team actually supports her, or that she even needs them considering the show has focused on exemplifying her skills and talents as being well beyond any one in her company, which begs the question why she needs them in the first place.

    Cuz the show literally does not establish it. The show expects you to assume she needs them just because they're there, while having every scene depict them as inferior or detrimental in some way. That is bad writing, that is the crux of my criticism.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 06:33 PM.

  9. #4129
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And to make it even more damning, we see Galadriel way far ahead of all the other Elves, illustrating that she's physically superior them all and doesn't even need to wait for them to catch up.
    Purely the lens of bias inventing an argument so you can hate. All it shows is that she is still dedicated to her task and thus approaching it with the same zeal as "before" where as her team is starting to "give up". They know they are to return. They know they are outside the bounds of the mission. We learn later that she has continually defied those things yet they still followed her.

    We also know that her superiority is a given as she is a powerful and talented elf in the lore even ignore that Rings of Power is not necessarily bound by canon. So why is it really a problem that is put on display?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  10. #4130
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Is this about the ice troll scene? The one where her support "distracted" it and gave her a "platform" to attack from? This just you, and others, blinding themselves for the sake of propping up a silly argument. You also ignore that they are slowing her down. Their dedication to their sacred task is wilting. This is like saying that everyone in Jacksons trilogy is useless because Frodo ultimately didn't need them for his quest as he does most of it without their help. Yet we know that isn't the case.

    You've reached a conclusion despite the scene and are forcing the lens of bias in order to maintain that conclusion.
    They didn't distract the troll. What? She wasn't even there for the distraction if they made one. You have a stronger argument that they attracted the troll because one wandered off.
    They got manhandled and destroyed utterly and did nothing of value. Then she arrived from the other place she and the other guy were.

    One guy using a springboard for flair is the only thing that can be considered "helping" but it also completely pointless and didn't exactly turn the tide of the battle.
    At best i give you One elf actually helped her. The rest did absolutely nothing. That's giving benefit of the doubt though. Thinking she wouldn't defeat the troll without the springboard is ridiculous to say the least.

    What scenes are you guys watching? Because it surely isn't depicted in the show.
    Can you give arguments and point to where she needed the help of the team? To me it seems like you are doing what you accuse me of.

    PJ's trilogy shows Frodo needs their help. So far this show have shown she doesn't need any.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-09-08 at 06:37 PM.
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  11. #4131
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You're the one in here with knotted panties, most other people are telling you to chill and let it simmer..
    Nah bro, you're the only one.

    Everyone else has been making points to argue various points of discussion. You know, have a conversation. Bring something to the table and I'd be happy to discuss.

    If you aren't interested in having a conversation and just want me to shut up, then as I said earlier, feel free to fuck off.

  12. #4132
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    They didn't distract the troll. What? She wasn't even there for the distraction if they made one. You have a stronger argument that they attracted the troll because one wandered off.
    As a conscious decision? No. It was still however a distraction. Also you must have watched a different show if you think the "springboard" didn't turn the tide of the battle when it is what lead to the troll being killed. Strange how that lens of bias works, right? You don't see the pivotal moment as pivotal because you are looking for reasons to hate. Yet if you remove that bias you see that Galadrial leaping into battle is what turned it from a disaster to a victory.

    Could she have defeated the troll with out help or with out the jump? Maybe. The fact remains that it was shown and used as part of the story. Ignoring it so you can continue to blindly hate is silly. It happened. It has meaning. You can accept that and find something else to further your crusade or you can continue to play the fool and complain about something that doesn't actually exist in the scenes you've selected.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  13. #4133
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Purely the lens of bias inventing an argument so you can hate. All it shows is that she is still dedicated to her task and thus approaching it with the same zeal as "before" where as her team is starting to "give up". They know they are to return. They know they are outside the bounds of the mission. We learn later that she has continually defied those things yet they still followed her.

    We also know that her superiority is a given as she is a powerful and talented elf in the lore even ignore that Rings of Power is not necessarily bound by canon. So why is it really a problem that is put on display?
    Because it has the consequence of making her entire company pointless.

    If her drive allows her to climb mountains alone without support, and trek through the snowstorm without actual need of them behind her to support, and find the unfindable fortress without needing someone to tell her it's unfindable, and find the secret entrance into it alone, and dispatch the Snow Troll without any real help from the others.... then what exactly is the purpose of her company even being there?

    To hold torches?

  14. #4134
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    As a conscious decision? No. It was still however a distraction. Also you must have watched a different show if you think the "springboard" didn't turn the tide of the battle when it is what lead to the troll being killed. Strange how that lens of bias works, right? You don't see the pivotal moment as pivotal because you are looking for reasons to hate. Yet if you remove that bias you see that Galadrial leaping into battle is what turned it from a disaster to a victory.

    Could she have defeated the troll with out help or with out the jump? Maybe. The fact remains that it was shown and used as part of the story. Ignoring it so you can continue to blindly hate is silly. It happened. It has meaning. You can accept that and find something else to further your crusade or you can continue to play the fool and complain about something that doesn't actually exist in the scenes you've selected.
    It wasn't a distraction. Neither intentional or not. She wasn't even there when it happened... You are just imagining things to defend silly scenes.
    Funny how that works with blind love.
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  15. #4135
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    The scenes shows she never needed the group to begin with and they were only slowing her down.

    Her returning because she can't carry on alone is the conflict of what's shown and what's being told.
    Hence people complaint about the scenes. Because they are bad and at odds which each others narrative.
    So in any group if one member is stronger than the others the rest are completely useless?

  16. #4136
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So in any group if one member is stronger than the others the rest are completely useless?
    Never said that.
    I said the group is useless because the scenes show them to be useless and detrimental to her own ability. They do nothing and slow her down. That's what makes them useless.

    I've said multiple times. The ice climbing scene would be great place to show she needed them. They could help her in some way.

    Hell, just having them make camp and talk about how they've helped each other during all these years of travel would establish that they needed each other more than the show currently does.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-09-08 at 06:47 PM.
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  17. #4137
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because it has the consequence of making her entire company pointless.
    How so? Was the entire army of Gondor pointless because Aragorn was more powerful then them? You are choosing to let your hatred blind you. Her company wasn't pointless they were fighting a troll that "surprised" them much the same way Galadrial was about to surprise the troll when its focus was on another member of her company. She also used another member to help with her surprise attack.

    They aren't meant to get much character development because they are not individual important to the story. At least not as has currently been shown. Your argument is essentially that the 300 soldiers from the movie "300" are pointless because the "star" of the story is given more development, screen time, and abilities beyond their own. Yet they are still important to the story that was told.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  18. #4138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So in any group if one member is stronger than the others the rest are completely useless?
    It has nothing to do with whether one is stronger than the others. It's with the fact that there's literally nothing indicating they were of any use.

    The entire idea that she needs them to progress in her journey is only assumed because they're there. Otherwise the show has done all it can do to show the audience how they're not even needed, and how she's been able to tackle all obstacles in her way as if they weren't there to begin with. Which then makes no sense why she decides to go back with them, if not for the sake of literally baby sitting them all the way back home. That's literally how the show depicts her relationship with her company. That she's there literally supporting them, and not the other way around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    How so? Was the entire army of Gondor pointless because Aragorn was more powerful then them?
    If the entire army of Gondor was only ever shown to fail and never managed to amount to anything useful, then yes I could argue that they would be entirely pointless.

    Understand?

    The difference in comparison is that we actually DO see the army of Gondor being useful, and having purpose. Peter Jackson shows many scenes where they are HIGHLY capable fighters and spies. So what you have here is a very bad comparison.

    Show me one scene where the Elves in her company are actually useful in supporting Galadriel in a way she would depend on their help to proceed.

  19. #4139
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It wasn't a distraction. Neither intentional or not. She wasn't even there when it happened... You are just imagining things to defend silly scenes.
    Funny how that works with blind love.
    The troll wasn't even looking in her direction when she first attacked. Why do you think that was? It was distracted because it was attacking the other members of the company. I am not imagining anything at all and it is easily proven if you go back and watch that scene. So go on and accept that you have lost this argument or continue to play the fool.

    This reddit post has the scene that clearly shows the troll focusing on the elf it just threw to the ground and is getting ready to stomp to death. I'm not blindly in love. I'm just standing up to a person hating for the sole reason of hating. There are plenty of things to complain about with out the need of inventing things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If the entire army of Gondor was only ever shown to fail and never managed to amount to anything useful, then yes I could argue that they would be entirely pointless.
    Lmao. Did you watch the movies or read the books? Their entire story is that they were failing until their King returned.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #4140
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It has nothing to do with whether one is stronger than the others. It's with the fact that there's literally nothing indicating they were of any use.

    The entire idea that she needs them to progress in her journey is only assumed because they're there. Otherwise the show has done all it can do to show the audience how they're not even needed, and how she's been able to tackle all obstacles in her way as if they weren't there to begin with. Which then makes no sense why she decides to go back with them, if not for the sake of literally baby sitting them all the way back home. That's literally how the show depicts her relationship with her company. That she's there literally supporting them, and not the other way around.
    Yeah, it's a safe assumption to make. The alternative is the dumbest possibility that Galadriel took them along just to slow her down, and returned to Lindon to get more people to slow her down. If that is what you want to assume about the scene then discussion is pointless.

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