1. #4141
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Your argument is essentially that the 300 soldiers from the movie "300" are pointless because the "star" of the story is given more development, screen time, and abilities beyond their own. Yet they are still important to the story that was told.
    No, again incomparable because the soldiers of 300 ARE SHOWN TO BE USEFUL.

    Where can you point me to any scene in the first 20 minutes where the Elves in her company actually do anything useful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Yeah, it's a safe assumption to make. The alternative is the dumbest possibility that Galadriel took them along just to slow her down, and returned to Lindon to get more people to slow her down. If that is what you want to assume about the scene then discussion is pointless.
    It's not even an assumption, it's literally what the show depicts. And I'm literally criticizing what the show depicts. And for you to say it's dumb is the entire point I'm making. The show's depiction of her company even being there is dumb, and in turn makes her decision to turn back even more dumb. Again, nothing to actually assume here, because that's actually how the show establishes these characters in this situation.

    Again, if you want to make a point that they are actually useful to her, feel free to point out all the scenes that actually establish how useful they are to her in the first 20 minute opening. Please do.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #4142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Do you agree with Syegfryed that exhausted Elves being battered by a troll shows they are all useless dumbasses, and that Galadriel returning to Lindon for reinforcements shows that she could have carried on the hunt successfully alone?
    Why they are exhausted and Galadriel is not?

    If they are exhausted and she is not they are a burden, not a help

    What the fuck did they do in the show to deem they useful in any way, shape or form?

    You can't even come up with an idea to explain this nonsense, you are just deflecting

  3. #4143
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    No, again incomparable because the soldiers of 300 ARE SHOWN TO BE USEFUL. Where can you point me to any scene in the first 20 minutes where the Elves in her company actually do anything useful?
    They clearly helped her battle the ice troll as one gave her the "springboard" for her jump. We didn't see them, or her, to much at all other then travel in the first 20 minutes. You are letting your hate and bias creating a mountain out of a mole hill. Could there have been more fighting? Sure but that would also ruin the theme that they are way past the point of needing to fight anything.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  4. #4144
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You imply it by saying they could do that but it would miss the point of the episode.
    nope not even slightly.

    and punch the idea that Gil-Galad and her company are the ones chasing a reflection while she is delving into the darkness to gain the wisdom to find the true light.
    the point of the metaphor isn’t to delve into the darkness to find wisdom, it’s that you may have to touch the sea to know that it isn’t the sky not jump into the sea and start swimming down.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #4145
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Why they are exhausted and Galadriel is not?
    Have you never traveled in a group before in real life? Do you really think that everyone is supposed to mantain the same exact amounts of dedicate, energy, and excitement for the current activity? The only one deflecting her is yourself with silly ideas because there is nothing but those silly hate-biased ideas to make an argument.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #4146
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Lmao. Did you watch the movies or read the books? Their entire story is that they were failing until their King returned.
    Failing =/= useless.

    That you don't understand the difference shows why you don't even understand what the conversation is about.

  7. #4147
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Ah so, the elite squad that went with Galadriel to find Sauron was not useless because they serve as bait, they are distraction

    what a fucking joke

  8. #4148
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Failing =/= useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If the entire army of Gondor was only ever shown to fail and never managed to amount to anything useful, then yes I could argue that they would be entirely pointless.
    You contradict your own statement. Oh I am in full understanding of what this conversation is about. Hatred. It doesn't matter if a statement you make is proven to not carry over to another situation because you don't really care. You say anything you can think of to justify your hatred then move on to the next thing including things like "You can't understand". You are using basic and text book arguments.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  9. #4149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    nope not even slightly.

    the point of the metaphor isn’t to delve into the darkness to find wisdom, it’s that you may have to touch the sea to know that it isn’t the sky not jump into the sea and start swimming down.
    Then it's a terrible metaphor to take literally and still a result of bad writing.

    If you're not saying the point couldn't be made any other way, then there's really nothing else for you to defend here.

    I'm not going to recognize the ship jumping and your explanation of the sea-touching metaphor as being purposeful or necessary to the overall narrative. As I said, I think it was poorly executed and counter-intuitive. I don't think telling me that it's the purpose of the episode changes anything here. I'm pretty clear that I disagree with the way her arc in this episode was handled.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 07:04 PM.

  10. #4150
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    lCOLOR]It's not even an assumption, it's literally what the show depicts. And I'm literally criticizing what the show depicts.

    Again, if you want to make a point that they are actually useful to her, feel free to point out all the scenes that actually establish how useful they are to her in the first 20 minute opening. Please do.
    There isn't any because as you pointed out this is the first 20 minutes of the entire series. It shows the Elves being exhausted and reaching a point where they will no longer follow Galadriel. We don't need to see earlier scenes where they are more helpful because most people won't make the dumbest possible assumption that Galadriel only takes followers along to make life harder.

  11. #4151
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Have you never traveled in a group before in real life? Do you really think that everyone is supposed to mantain the same exact amounts of dedicate, energy, and excitement for the current activity? The only one deflecting her is yourself with silly ideas because there is nothing but those silly hate-biased ideas to make an argument.
    I mean we know that Galadriel can apparently swim the equivalent of the Atlantic so by EVERYTHING SHOWN her troops are useless, she may say otherwise, or imply, but what we are actually shown proves her Troops are not only useless, but holding Galadriel back and now she will be free to 1v anything.

    That is a primary problem of the show, it shows fuck all and implies/tells a lot. The only thing we are shown basically is that Galadriel is a the greatest warrior with unlimited stamina (oh and she is a terrible leader that hardly gives a single fuck about her troops, some commander of the northern armies).

    For anyone that wants to defend it by saying she needs an arc to be a good leader, I repeat SHE IS THE COMMANDER OF THE NORTHERN ARMIES ALREADY (AS WELL AS BEING THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD), you can't say she is one of the highest ranking military leaders and yet have her display 0 abilities to lead or care in the slightest for her troops. I repeat this arc would have been better/fitting for Elrond as he is both younger and less experienced, but for Galadriel especially how they set her up, it is fucking terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    There isn't any because as you pointed out this is the first 20 minutes of the entire series. It shows the Elves being exhausted and reaching a point where they will no longer follow Galadriel. We don't need to see earlier scenes where they are more helpful because most people won't make the dumbest possible assumption that Galadriel only takes followers along to make life harder.
    Or maybe we might think since we are SHOWN that Gil-Galad is trying to sabotage/stop Galadriel from finding Sauron they were sent to her to stop her/slow her chase, so that she finds nothing and is forced back. That is a x100 more reasonable explanation than her taking the troops because she cares or needs them, as it is actually has proof shown in the show.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-09-08 at 07:05 PM.
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  12. #4152
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Have you never traveled in a group before in real life? Do you really think that everyone is supposed to mantain the same exact amounts of dedicate, energy, and excitement for the current activity? The only one deflecting her is yourself with silly ideas because there is nothing but those silly hate-biased ideas to make an argument.
    With the small amount of posts of yours i can already see how love-biased you are with the show, you deflected all questioning with red-hearing

    Like you nonsensical argument about "gondor is useless without Aragorn"

    Just face, the scene is dumb and poorly written, the showrunenrs are amateurs using so much basic tv troops they contradict themselves

    Those are supposed to be an elite squad of trained elves, not some random fucker who is travelling with her.

  13. #4153
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The troll wasn't even looking in her direction when she first attacked. Why do you think that was? It was distracted because it was attacking the other members of the company. I am not imagining anything at all and it is easily proven if you go back and watch that scene. So go on and accept that you have lost this argument or continue to play the fool.

    This reddit post has the scene that clearly shows the troll focusing on the elf it just threw to the ground and is getting ready to stomp to death. I'm not blindly in love. I'm just standing up to a person hating for the sole reason of hating. There are plenty of things to complain about with out the need of inventing things.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lmao. Did you watch the movies or read the books? Their entire story is that they were failing until their King returned.
    Because the troll was whooping some elf and she came to rescue them. Showing them to be detrimental... Again.

    They attract a troll and then have to be saved.
    Sure you can see that as them being USEFUL as a distraction. Which is odd as hell. Most would see and think they arent useful when they attracted it in the first place.

    Aren't i useful. I lured this troll here, but then I got smashed so you had to save me. I was a distraction though. Useful af.

    Blind love. But yeah, the way you argue is very condescending and disrespectful. But that's blind love for you. So kinda cba continue with you. I accept your loss though.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-09-08 at 07:05 PM.
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  14. #4154
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I mean we know that Galadriel can apparently swim the equivalent of the Atlantic so by EVERYTHING SHOWN her troops are useless, she may say otherwise, or imply, but what we are actually shown proves her Troops are not only useless, but holding Galadriel back and now she will be free to 1v anything.
    Troops that kept up with her every step of the way? You are yet again another person that is looking through the lens of hatred then coming up with any justification to prop up that hatred.

    For anyone that wants to defend it by saying she needs an arc to be a good leader, I repeat SHE IS THE COMMANDER OF THE NORTHERN ARMIES ALREADY (AS WELL AS BEING THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD), you can't say she is one of the highest ranking military leaders and yet have her display 0 abilities to lead or care in the slightest for her troops.
    So she can't display abilities beyond her troops but she is also supposed to have abilities beyond her own troops because of her position? Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your statement? How you are just using any argument you can think of in the moment to justify your hate even if it contradicts arguments you just made. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  15. #4155
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then it's a terrible metaphor to take literally and still a result of bad writing.
    Your the only one who seems to be taking it literally.

    The idea is that she’s on the right side in the light of the sky (chasing Sauron) but her resolve is shaken and she starts heading towards the reflected light of the water (going home) and when she actually gets to the gate of the elvish home land (touch’s the water) she realizes that it’s not the actual light of the sky and turns back.

    Her brother and the greater theme of the episode wasn’t actually telling her to jump off of boats.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #4156
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So she can't display abilities beyond her troops but she is also supposed to have abilities beyond her own troops because of her position? Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your statement? .
    That is not a contradiction of his, its a contradiction of the show itself, contradicting established canon of Galadriel, changing for the show, and yet still contradicting with what the show shows.

    If you had a minimal of criticism thinking you would know and not blame on others "hate"

  17. #4157
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Or maybe we might think since we are SHOWN that Gil-Galad is trying to sabotage/stop Galadriel from finding Sauron they were sent to her to stop her/slow her chase, so that she finds nothing and is forced back. That is a x100 more reasonable explanation than her taking the troops because she cares or needs them, as it is actually has proof shown in the show.
    Ah, so Galadriel returns with them to Lindon because she is secretly in league with Gil-galad's plan to slow her down. Brilliant! Obviously that's a much better interpretation than thinking that a team of Elves may be more useful than no team of Elves.
    /s

  18. #4158
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Valinor isn't actually on Arda after the first age. Tolkien explains it in one of his letters that going to Valinor would be like (my words) leaving California and going straight winding up outside the atmosphere. If humans tried to go to Valinor they would just find the other side of middle earth or whatever the eastern continent.
    No that is how it is after the Second Age. AFAIK the Numenoreans could see the shores of Valinor, and the whole sinking of Numenor and reshaping of Arda into a Globe happened after Ar-Pharazon stepped foot on Valinor with his army.
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  19. #4159
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The idea is that she’s on the right side in the light of the sky (chasing Sauron) but her resolve is shaken and she starts heading towards the reflected light of the water (going home) and when she actually gets to the gate of the elvish home land (touch’s the water) she realizes that it’s not the actual light of the sky and turns back. .
    Jesus, that is so bad that i can definitely see the writers doing this way and thinking they are so clever, like those nonsense dialogues that make the star wars prequels look amazing.

  20. #4160
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Troops that kept up with her every step of the way? You are yet again another person that is looking through the lens of hatred then coming up with any justification to prop up that hatred.
    Troops that barely kept up climbing by helping/supporting each other (wow almost like working together allows people to accomplish things they wouldn't otherwise be able to, unlike Galadriel who needs nothing), who have one collapse and almost get left behind, and who could nothing but get utterly demolished by a troll they didn't even get A SINGLE HIT ON? No hate is needed, this is shit tier writing, and your love of what Amazon I guess? is making you blinding defend an objectively terribly written show. Blind love mate.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So she can't display abilities beyond her troops but she is also supposed to have abilities beyond her own troops because of her position? Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your statement? How you are just using any argument you can think of in the moment to justify your hate even if it contradicts arguments you just made. Lmao.
    Beyond sure, but you don't make them literally useless, they do LITERALLY NOTHING OF USE when show. Do they help her climb, do they find the fortress, or the hidden room behind the ice, or the sigil or Sauron, or figure out how the sigil works, or defeat the ice troll? No they literally do none of those it is all Galadriel. That is the issue, the writers could have easily given any of those things to the troops, to prove their worth, I mean just have one detect air and break the ice, or one is known for their understanding of traps/perception to discover the mark, but alas all Galadriel. She displays abilities to do everything, and they do nothing, this isn't abilities beyond her troops, this is the abilities an entire troop would need, so it makes them redundant.

    This is the equivalent of having Superman in your army during WW2 and still sending the troops into battle, like why, he can handle the whole thing by himself, and you are only slowing him down by having him have to protect them and look after them.

    There is no contradiction her troops are useless because she is apparently able to do anything and everything. Can you stop your blind love/pay from Amazon long enough to recognize the show has SHOWN her troops are quite possibly ONLY there because Gil-Galad wants to slow her down/make her not find Sauron, an actual reasonable deduction from the facts shown in the show? If you don't want to talk about what is actually shown in the show, and throw out terms like blind hate (only because you can't call me a racist to wipe away my valid points that you have no logical defense of) then kindly stop posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Ah, so Galadriel returns with them to Lindon because she is secretly in league with Gil-galad's plan to slow her down. Brilliant! Obviously that's a much better interpretation than thinking that a team of Elves may be more useful than no team of Elves.
    /s
    Are you daft mate? She returns with them because they are finally showing she isn't a complete narcissistic bitch, that and she cares enough about how it would look to Gil-Galad that she would not only ignore his orders (which we know she has already done at this point in the norther wastes) but did so to such an extreme her troops would abandon her commands and return without her. That isn't secretly in league with Gil-Galad's plan, that is getting strong armed into actually following his orders against his will (which we know because she has hesitation before going back, before getting coaxed into going to the undying lands by Elrond, something by the way Gil-Galad shouldn't/couldn't be able to offer as only the Valar could do so). Her going back is more of rock and a hard place situation, she doesn't want to, but if she doesn't it basically would cut her off from everything and quite possibly result in Gil-Galad sending more troops in order to bring her back, by force if necessary.

    That is what is shown, and if you want to blindly ignore facts I don't know if there is much more to say.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-09-08 at 07:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

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