1. #4201
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    23,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Here's the kicker.

    They could literally present this exact scene as a flashback at the end of the episode and it would still work for a solo hunt for Sauron story. Have it be the revelation for why she decides to go solo, without her actually be stuck in the middle of the ocean. It would merely be implied that present-day Galadriel has already made her way back in Middle Earth.
    The whole point is that the uncertainty of rather she is on the right path or not culminating with her "touching the darkness" at the end to Realize which is which. If you just have her already on the side of the light and then just throw in that scene at the end as a flash back you miss the whole point.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #4202
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    18,678
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yes. At times. Her zeal wasn't a problem when they had actual enemy forces to fight. There is a reason why she was leading the company sent to scour middle-earth for any remaining forces
    So you admit the company is send to find remaining forces of the enemy

    If they are like that, why they suck so much ass??? it does, not, make, any, sense.
    This is how we know your objection silly though. Because you are now moving the goal posts to something else when met with resistance on your first attempt. It isn't just that any commander, even the best, can get to zealous. Now her not caring about her other siblings is the problem.
    who is moving goalposts here? isn't you who said "b-b-b-ut gondor soldiers!" in a way to salvage the argument?

    If you still want to show she can get "zealous at times" you are still wrong, the show does not show that, it show she have an unfair mental ilness about this subject that make her not give two shits about her group but to be suicidal and jump fo a boat miles away from shore

    This is not the profile of a commander who, presumably, fought wars, is highly educated and have more than EIGHT thousand years
    No amount of writing would please you as long as certain themes were present
    .

    Wrong, again, deflecting, there is many ways of how the scene could ahve worked some of then @Triceron pointed out
    Just read your own words. You say she could probably scream at the ice troll and it would die because she is so powerful but are also whining that she was shown to be more powerful then the rest of her company because she was given the "focus" of a fight scene as a main character. Weird, right?
    Show her screaming at the Troll, or using magic or whatever would be a canon way to demonstrate how she is strong without the necessity to make the elite squad of elves to look like fat hobbits

    They could have make her separate from the group, find one troll and kill it, while the group fights another and kill him, without getting their asses handled to then

    Again, they are using tv troops to show have stronger and wiser - making everyone else dumber and weaker -, this is not a bad troop by itself, but the execution is awful, bad writing that does not make sense in the context, as they are not just randoms but an elite squad.

    Its like when they have to make everyone dumber to make Batman look intelligent, this is bad writing when you cannot write Batman intelligent, tis bad there and its bad here.

    Also I never said you disliked it because she was a woman. I've merely said hate with out really defining it so it is refreshing for you to label it yourself even if we can easily assume it.
    Are you even reading? lmao, i said you were this close to say it, not that you said it, no wonder how you are defending the show, you probably didn't paid attention either.

    But alas, you did say it now, its amazing how you ahve to run to the safe route cause you don't ahve any good arguments

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    They Literally add the final part of the metaphor as she touching the golden light of her homeland, if you really think that was done in such a way to set up her falling for a character she didn't even meet till half an episode later I don't even know what to say.
    You rly think their shit ass "meptaphor" will be something that is only important in the first episode to mean only just that?

    You ahve a lot of faith in the writers who came up with something as dumb as "the rock looks down"

  3. #4203
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The whole point is that the uncertainty of rather she is on the right path or not culminating with her "touching the darkness" at the end to Realize which is which. If you just have her already on the side of the light and then just throw in that scene at the end as a flash back you miss the whole point.
    It doesn't miss the point, it merely punctuates it in a different way.

    Context is important, and I think you're somehow intentionally equating that scene as only working if she were still with them at this moment in time, and making that decision at that very point. I think it works just as well as a flashback scene showing a pivotal moment of her 'turn to the light', because it merely punctuates the situation she's already in. If the show were focused on her struggles alone, and her put into a 'worst of the worst' situation that makes it look like she's made a terrible decision to hoof it alone, then the flashback scene showing her making that initial choice could be the motivation she needs to push through said sticky-situation.

    Just as the flashback of her brother was the very reason she jumps off the boat.

  4. #4204
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So you hate it because a main character gets a starring role in the story? Lmao.
    What? Just because you are a main character doesn't mean you are literally all that matters, that is why we have support characters that do things in the story. These Elves do nothing, they don't even qualify as support. Are you even trying at this point? Like come on, if you aren't even going to try why should I be bothered to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yet you haven't been using those facts. Strange right? Look at the other poster that was proven 100% wrong about the ice troll fight scene but still insisted they are right. Or the person that is upset she is more powerful then the other elves in that scene but also thinks she could yell the ice troll to death. Strange, right?

    Just like you say she should give orders to fight or distract the troll would be better. So she is supposed to sit there and let her followers be killed or injured to give orders that serve no purpose. She can't do a surprise attack while the attention of the troll was on another person because that is "bad". None of their fights over the years is shown because they are not important to the plot. That fighting isn't important to the story. It was a small skirmish meant to show that they have gone to far and need to return.
    .... All the things I pointed out are facts. She literally doesn't need her troops, is a terrible commander, is insubordinate, is a dick to her friend/Elrond, believes she can swim the Atlantic, etc.

    Want more facts of things I hate/they changed?: they cut Celeborn/Celebrian, made Elrond take over as Dwarf friend from Celebrimbor, who now no longer loves Galadriel seemingly and who looks much older than every other Elf, even though he is roughly the same age as Gil-Galad and Galadriel (who also looks younger than both of them/same age as Elrond, whom is much younger). You tell us that the world only knew peace and Elves live forever yet you have her brother telling her he isn't always going to be around. For some reason they make Galadriel get bullied as a kid? Galadriel while yes described as being incredibly athletic never once was described as taking up a sword and going into battle. Durin III and Durin the IV shouldn't live at the same time since Durin is a reincarnation of Durin the Undying. Gil-Gald could never give people the right to travel to Valinor, as the Valar were the ones who exiled them and only they can allow them back. Galadriel had 3 brothers not just one (and while it might be implied that with the wound that a wolf killed him, they said he died searching for Sauron which makes you think it was him, which btw sucks cause I would have loved a scene of him tearing a wolf apart with his hands before dying to his wounds). Hobbits (Harfoots are sub-species of Hobbits, not different from them) did nothing of note in the 2nd age. The only wizards that MIGHT have been active in the 2nd age were the two blue wizards so depending on who mystery meteor man is could be pretty fucked from lore, at minimum we need another wizard. There were only 3 Elf-human relationships in all of Tolkien's work as it was INCREDIBLY rare for it to occur, so adding a 4th is pretty fucking huge change. While not in the show yet we have seen a Balrog in the trailers, and considering in cannon the only one still alive is Durins Bane that is pretty big fucking change considering it didn't get woken up till ~1000-1500 years into the THIRD age, not during the 2nd age. I mean I could go on, but factually this show just takes bits and pieces and shit all over Tolkien's works.

    No one has proven shit, you say that but put nothing up while we have facts and details mate. SHE LITERALLY DOES SIT THERE AND WATCH THEM GET HIT DIE IN THE SHOW. Go back and watch again, she runs out with the sword flinging elf, watches the troll take out Elves for like 8-10 seconds, and finally when sword flinger offers his sword she FINALLY makes a move and takes it out in a few seconds. Instead you could have had her run out and say like circle formation as she runs in and the Elves respond by backing up so a few can shot arrows as the others take turns harassing it when one elf draws its attention. Do you understand basic biology? You can move while talking....

    So if none of the fights are important, why show this one? It is meant to convey something to the watchers. What is conveyed then? Well all we see is the rest of her troops get utterly destroyed without being able to LAND A SINGLE HIT, and when she moves in the Troll can't do anything and is killed in a few seconds. The message is clear the rest of the Elves are utterly useless and Galadriel is just so far beyond them you have to wonder why they are there, I mean they didn't solve any clues, didn't help her get to the location or find the location or find the hidden room or anything. Other than get the shit kicked out of them by the troll the only actions they take are to barely climb the ice wall with each others help and to thrown down their swords in opposition to Galadriel.

    That is the message you are sending, that is the information being given to us. It literally makes Galadriel seem to be a terrible/uncaring Commander who has to do everything herself because everyone around her is incompetent and useless, which considering one of Tolkiens core tenants was people need to come together to overcome evil is pretty fucking laughable. But she needs to grow, my arc, yet they prove she is correct when Gil-Galad says he knows evil is about but doesn't want Galadriel to awaken it, and every fan knows because of the LoTR trilogy she is correct too. It is all laughably horrible written.


    So please instead of being like "You just a hater" or no you are wrong, throw some facts out, prove your point.

    Oh also, you might think I am being to harsh on this show, let me just remind you they are adapting Tolkien, the greatest, most well known and respected fantasy author we have seen. The show also is the most expensive show ever created with what 60 million dollars being spent per an episode. EVERYONE should have extremely high standards coming into this show, so when we get this low quality junk we should be upset, we should be mad, and we should demand better.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-09-08 at 08:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  5. #4205
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Er, there is no problem.

    I would agree with you that there is no problem with a main character having more ability than other characters who are inconsequential to the plot. We have this very situation play out with Galadriel having more capability than all the survivors on the raft (sans Dude who Saved Her). There is nothing wrong with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And to make it even more damning, we see Galadriel way far ahead of all the other Elves, illustrating that she's physically superior them all and doesn't even need to wait for them to catch up.
    Talk about bad faith. Now you are saying there is nothing wrong with that yet it being shown is something you've taken issue with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    But they are still shown as being useless when pitted against an obstacle of significance.
    Yet they haven't. They didn't die. They didn't seem to have any serious wounds. They merely didn't "win" before she shown up which again is something you just got done saying there is nothing wrong with. She is the main character and they are throw away characters. She isn't baby sitting her troops just because she is more skilled. This is where your bias (the hatred I keep mentioning) slips into your arguments. Her being shown as more powerful is bad just for the sake of it when you also claim it isn't an issue if that is shown. So what is the real reason why it is bad?

    She doesn't need to be shown support for her progress because they exist to stop her progress. I'm not sure why you didn't catch that when they continually try and get her to stop being so zealous. When the King does so. When Elrond does so. She was sent away because of the blindness that zealotry caused and it maybe being beneficial to "the enemy". It was a recurring theme that others were continually trying to temper her inability to rest and let it go. Then just when she is about to give in to that pressure she refuses. It is typical "main character" stuff that for some reason you are taking issue with.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-09-08 at 08:52 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #4206
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yet they haven't. They didn't die.
    They don't have to die to be shown as being a hindrance to her.

    As I said, the show depicted them as a hindrance. Everything else you're trying to point out to defend this is merely splitting hairs. Dead or not, they're still depicted as having been completely useless to her.

    She doesn't need to be shown support for her progress because they exist to stop her progress. I'm not sure why you didn't catch that when they continually try and get her to stop being so zealous. When the King does so. When Elrond does so. It was a recurring theme that others were continually trying to temper her inability to rest and let it go. Then just when she is about to give in to that pressure she refuses. It is typical "main character" stuff that for some reason you are taking issue with.
    That's my fucking point dude.

    If you're even illustrating how zealous she is and how she's prone to disobeying anyone who 'gets in her way', then why the fuck would I believe she would be the type of person to suddenly turn back and go back to the Elf lands if she's already committed to pushing forward?

    She's portrayed as being zealous the entire episode. Elrond was the only one who was capable of dousing her flames enough to have her even consider getting onto the boat, otherwise she was self-commited to continuing her pursuit.

    Take a moment to reflect on this - Knowing she is as zealous as she is, what reason do you think Galadriel has to not simply abandon the Elves in the north and continue her trek alone?

    It would be reasonable to assume she can't continue without the rest of her company. My criticism is that the show undermines this reasoning, because they show how capable Galadriel is on her own, without the help of anyone, and further showing that her entire company is not only useless to her but holding her back from her goals. That means, based on what the show actually showed us, it would make more sense for her to go off on her own.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #4207
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    They don't have to die to be shown as being a hindrance to her. As I said, the show depicted them as a hindrance. Everything else you're trying to point out to defend this is merely splitting hairs. Dead or not, they're still depicted as having been completely useless to her.
    So they don't have to be shown to be a hindrance for them to be a hindrance? Nothing depicts them as a hindrance unless you are looking through it from a lens of hatred. It isn't splitting hairs to show the flaws in your claim. If they are not killed by an ice troll then they are not useless. She merely stole the kill shot from them. Again something you said is perfectly fine for a main character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I would agree with you that there is no problem with a main character having more ability than other characters who are inconsequential to the plot. We have this very situation play out with Galadriel having more capability than all the survivors on the raft (sans Dude who Saved Her). There is nothing wrong with this.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-09-08 at 08:58 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So they don't have to be shown to be a hindrance for them to be a hindrance? Nothing depicts them as a hindrance unless you are looking through it from a lens of hatred. It isn't splitting hairs to show the flaws in your claim. If they are not killed by an ice troll then they are not useless. She merely stole the kill shot from them. Again something you said is perfectly fine for a main character.
    That is literally not what he said, mate you are bad faith as fuck. He said they didn't have to die to be shown to be a hindrance, read again. They are shown to be a hindrance, she has to wait on them, they always question her and try to get her to turn back, they can't find anything without her, they literally CAN'T EVEN HIT the ice troll that she easily dispatches, and finally they force an ultimatum by putting down their swords and quitting on her. You are so blinded to reality by I don't even know how you are doing it. You even admitted in your last post they are an obstruction to her and what she is doing.

    You can't say she stole the kill shot WHEN THEY DIDN'T EVEN HIT THE TROLL ONCE, THEY ONLY GOT THEIR ASSES KICKED.

    You know what, I am going back to ignoring your posts, you ONLY argue in bad faith and don't do anything to defend your points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  9. #4209
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    23,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Explain the difference to me in this context. Genuine question. Is it different scale? I would imagine delving into a topic is more than touching upon a topic. But in this context I'm not sure what the difference would be since it's metaphorical.
    The opening Metaphor has two lights one is the false light reflecting on the darkness, the other is the real light, If you go up to the border of the two you can touch the darkness You know that it's a reflection and is false and you can turn away, If you are delving into the darkness you aren't going to get any greater understanding of the light as the light was never real you are just going further away from the light.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You rly think their shit ass "meptaphor" will be something that is only important in the first episode to mean only just that?

    You ahve a lot of faith in the writers who came up with something as dumb as "the rock looks down"
    It doesn't need to only be applied only to the events of the first episode for it to have applied clearly to the first episode.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #4210
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So they don't have to be shown to be a hindrance for them to be a hindrance? Nothing depicts them as a hindrance unless you are looking through it from a lens of hatred. It isn't splitting hairs to show the flaws in your claim. If they are not killed by an ice troll then they are not useless. She merely stole the kill shot from them. Again something you said is perfectly fine for a main character.
    1- Elf falls from fatigue. Galadriel wants to keep pushing forward through the snowstorm, but must hesitate to tend to her
    2- Elf in her company tells her the fortress has never been found, seeding doubt in her goals.
    2- Her second in command continually urges her to return home
    3- She finally finds evidence of Sauron's evil, and the Elves refuse to go further north

    None of these things would be hindrances to her if she were on her own.


    The snow troll fight itself didn't make the Elves a hindrance to her. It merely illustrated how useless they were to her overall.

    She merely stole the kill shot from them.
    What in the world are you talking about? She singlehandedly takes it from 100-0. Stealing the kill shot implies they did any damage to it at all, and they didn't even get any hits off. Perhaps you need to go watch that scene again?

    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 09:24 PM.

  11. #4211
    The forced diversity just makes it feel more like a school play than a big budget movie. With a big budget movie you do as much as you can to alleviate the audience's need to suspend disbelief. In a small production, where they don't have a large budget or large casting pool, you understand going in that there will be people that don't look like the role they are playing, so you suspend disbelief.

    The parallel I would draw is to say how jarring it would be if Wakanda had a lot of European and Asian actors, because diversity. I would be able to deal with it, but it would have ruined immersion and force me to suspend disbelief.

    When you see large contrasts in skin color, that is caused by large geographical distances where the two different peoples haven't mixed for millennia. You can see all over the world currently, that when very dark skinned person and a very light skinned person procreate, their offspring is typically medium skinned. So having large contrasts in skin color in a single population in our world is a recent phenomenon caused by rapid travel, and all of the mixed racial countries in the world will be medium skinned in the next few hundred years. You won't see a big contrast within the same population over time.

    So bringing that back to medieval styled fantasy, it doesn't work to have a very mixed skinned population. Travel during that time is very slow and you won't have people who have been isolated geographically from each other for long enough to create their genetic differences to all-of-a-sudden by very mixed. The Wheel of Time books, IMO, does a good job with introducing diversity by explaining that the folks who look a certain way come from certain geographical locations. Then the series shows up and now a very isolated village is now extremely diverse, and it feels odd.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  12. #4212
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    That is literally not what he said, mate you are bad faith as fuck. He said they didn't have to die to be shown to be a hindrance, read again. They are shown to be a hindrance, she has to wait on them, they always question her and try to get her to turn back, they can't find anything without her, they literally CAN'T EVEN HIT the ice troll that she easily dispatches, and finally they force an ultimatum by putting down their swords and quitting on her. You are so blinded to reality by I don't even know how you are doing it. You even admitted in your last post they are an obstruction to her and what she is doing.
    So a leader being in front is "bad" because everyone has to be in a line so no one is ahead? They are trying to get her to turn back because they are past their mission goals. They are reminding her of that as is implied has happened in the past. That they return after the mission to report their findings and follow new leads. It is bad that a leader gets reminded of their duty if they stray? They are hitting and fighting the ice troll when she shows up and gets the attention because she is the main character.

    Of course they are trying to get her to stop. That is their purpose in the story. They are throw away characters that exist as a compelling reason for her to turn back and head home because she is going off mission. Why is that a bad thing? That her "Second in command" is reminding her of that? You know the one that also wordlessly helps her have a dramatic entrance during the fight?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    1- Elf falls from fatigue. Galadriel wants to keep pushing forward through the snowstorm, but must hesitate to tend to her
    2- Her second in command continually urges her to return home, challenging her own goals to confirm that evil is rid from the world
    3- She finally finds evidence of Sauron's evil, and the Elves refuse to go further north

    None of these things would be hindrances to her if she were on her own.
    Right. Which is her character flaw. That she will push ahead alone. She will be blinded from the dangers by her zeal. Ignore their orders, and the mission, because of that zeal. Her second in command is doing what any good second in command would do. Not blindly follow. They refuse to go further north because they are tired, low on supplies, and are supposed to report back. Something that will get them reinforcements if needed.

    Again all things you said are fine for a main character when dealing with characters inconsequential to the plot. We later learn that there is a strong push amongst the rulers to have her stop. They are afraid she will "fan the flame" of the enemy and make him stronger if she keeps pursuing him. There is a strong theme that you are ignoring simply because you her being stronger then inconsequential characters is such a huge issue.

    She could have easily been on her own but then the reasons for turning back would have to be different. It would require a longer episode to explore those reasons and make them fit. Otherwise we would be in the exact same spot with you finding a reason to hate just for the sake it. Even now when your own words indicated it isn't a problem you still argue that it is a problem. Why? Why can't you listen to yourself if it is as you say and you are not being blinded by hatred?

    Remember this? Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I would agree with you that there is no problem with a main character having more ability than other characters who are inconsequential to the plot.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #4213
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Remember this? Lol.
    Yes, and I still stand by that point because that isn't my actual criticism of the show, smartass.

    She could have easily been on her own but then the reasons for turning back would have to be different. It would require a longer episode to explore those reasons and make them fit.
    Feel free to continue defending the bad writing then, but like I said, that is my criticism of the show as they present it. If your answer is 'well it could be done differently' then yeah, that's my fucking point.

    I'm not exactly sure why you think making a point that certain scenes in this show are counter-intuitive or poorly written equates to hate. I enjoyed the first two episodes, I didn't think they were perfect, and I'm expressing what I think were some key flaws to Galadriel's story arc and what could have been done better. Again, no reason to call that 'hate', unless you think any and all criticism is 'hate'.


    They are hitting and fighting the ice troll when she shows up and gets the attention because she is the main character.
    LOL No the fuck they don't!


    Dude, you're absolutely delusional to the point where you literally revised the entire show to fit your own bogus argument.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 09:44 PM.

  14. #4214
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    4,572
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    The forced diversity just makes it feel more like a school play than a big budget movie. With a big budget movie you do as much as you can to alleviate the audience's need to suspend disbelief. In a small production, where they don't have a large budget or large casting pool, you understand going in that there will be people that don't look like the role they are playing, so you suspend disbelief.

    The parallel I would draw is to say how jarring it would be if Wakanda had a lot of European and Asian actors, because diversity. I would be able to deal with it, but it would have ruined immersion and force me to suspend disbelief.

    When you see large contrasts in skin color, that is caused by large geographical distances where the two different peoples haven't mixed for millennia. You can see all over the world currently, that when very dark skinned person and a very light skinned person procreate, their offspring is typically medium skinned. So having large contrasts in skin color in a single population in our world is a recent phenomenon caused by rapid travel, and all of the mixed racial countries in the world will be medium skinned in the next few hundred years. You won't see a big contrast within the same population over time.

    So bringing that back to medieval styled fantasy, it doesn't work to have a very mixed skinned population. Travel during that time is very slow and you won't have people who have been isolated geographically from each other for long enough to create their genetic differences to all-of-a-sudden by very mixed. The Wheel of Time books, IMO, does a good job with introducing diversity by explaining that the folks who look a certain way come from certain geographical locations. Then the series shows up and now a very isolated village is now extremely diverse, and it feels odd.
    Middle Earth isn't real. Orcs, Dwarves, and Elves are not real. If you can suspend disbelief enough to accept that a dude can fall from the sky like a meteor and not die or use a fucking stick to cast spells, then it shouldn't require a whole lot of mental effort to imagine a non-white elf or dwarf. It's insane to me that you and others are expending this much effort to rationalize disliking non-whites in movies.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  15. #4215
    Can we just not get into this again. Yes, we get it, some people here don't want to see black people in a fantasy show but they're REALLY not veiled racists they swear pinky promise just don't want black people but not because they're racist just... uh... for other reasons that aren't racist, yeah, please, that, thank you.

    We've discussed it enough. Racists gonna racist. If discussion could cure them of it, we'd have gotten there 100 pages ago. Now it's just derailing things.

    Let's get back to how a hero character in a hero show somehow isn't allowed to be more powerful than everyone else, and how showing her motivations should be eschewed in favor of just skipping to the end and putting here where she ends up anyway.

    Or something. It didn't make sense to me 5 pages ago, and it still doesn't, but apparently some people just REALLY hate to learn about why characters do stuff and just want to see them do what they end up doing without learning how they got there.

    Cool.

  16. #4216
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, and I still stand by that point because that isn't my actual criticism of the show, smartass. Feel free to continue defending the bad writing then, but like I said, that is my criticism of the show as they present it.
    It is or it isn't your criticism of the show? Lmao. It is crazy the lengths you go to deny something while also arguing for the something. This is why the lens of hatred taints your arguments but you selectively choose when to apply them depending on you being for or against a certain part.

    Dude, you're absolutely delusional to the point where you literally revised the entire show to fit your own bogus argument.
    They are fighting it. That isn't a delusional thing. They have weapons drawn and are in close proximity even after others have already been hit. Some are even moving toward the troll. If you can watch a video clip of the scene and think they are not fighting then it further shows your selective bias at work. You are choosing to interpret the scene only a certain way even when you directly provide proof of them doing what you claim they are not.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-09-09 at 12:09 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #4217
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They are fighting it. That isn't a delusional thing. They have weapons drawn and are in close proximity even after others have already been hit. Some are even moving toward the troll.
    I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.

    If you're fine with the scene, then sure, all the power to you. If you're actually arguing they hit the snow troll and getting absolutely wrecked is 'fighting', then yeah we're not on the same page at all.

    It is or it isn't your criticism of the show? Lmao
    It isn't, because you cherry picked and misinterpreted something that I never actually complained about.

    Having a skill gap isn't a problem. Being singularly portrayed as useless or detrimental is a problem.

    Look at the snow troll fight again. Where do they actually contribute to its defeat.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-09 at 12:14 AM.

  18. #4218
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.
    They are fighting. Weapons drawn when the first two get hit by a chunk of ice. The only one that doesn't appear to have a weapon is the one with the torch that gets hit shortly after the ice chunk. The next one that moves toward the troll has their weapon drawn. The last two were clearly engaging the troll rather then keeping a distance.

    Is a fight now only a time when you win? Take a breather and think about how far you are moving the goal posts in order to not have to admit you were wrong on the internet. The only delusional one here is yourself that refuses the evidence provided by yourself to continue to argue a claim you proved was factually incorrect. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #4219
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.

    If you're fine with the scene, then sure, all the power to you. If you're actually arguing they hit the snow troll and getting absolutely wrecked is 'fighting', then yeah we're not on the same page at all.



    It isn't, because you cherry picked and misinterpreted something that I never actually complained about.

    Having a skill gap isn't a problem. Being singularly portrayed as useless or detrimental is a problem.

    Look at the snow troll fight again. Where do they actually contribute to its defeat.
    You just aren't getting it Triceron, they TOTALLY helped defeat it by tiring it out by letting it beat the shit out of them, geeze.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  20. #4220
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,121
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    You just aren't getting it Triceron, they TOTALLY helped defeat it by tiring it out by letting it beat the shit out of them, geeze.
    It not facing Galadriel gave her a distinct advantage for her jump attack. So it is silly to claim their presence had no impact on the fight just because they weren't killing it in one shot. There are plenty of things to dislike about the show with out having to invent things just so you can hate on the show.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •