1. #4241
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    When Gal jumped ship I kinda chuckled amusingly. In the beginning of the serie there is that classic map on parchment (to give so layout of places for those who may not know).
    The striped line animated to represent the high elves travel to Middle Earth is humongously far in that representation.

    Yet... she strech her limbs and swim for a short while and woopsie daisy here comes a suitable shipwreck. And we have yet to see when she use the sea wyrm as mount to get back for real. I dont care about it but I immediately knew some far fetched explanation is incoming. Dont remember that from the any books but was like 25y ago I read all but the main works.
    Valinor isn't actually on Arda after the first age. Tolkien explains it in one of his letters that going to Valinor would be like (my words) leaving California and going straight winding up outside the atmosphere. If humans tried to go to Valinor they would just find the other side of middle earth or whatever the eastern continent.

  2. #4242
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Yes, have to add that to the list of expert marksmen, magicians, smiths etc.
    It's odd though, wonder what athletics dwarves shine in. Midget-Sumo wrestling perhaps or is that taken by haflings *ponder*
    Smashing rocks, clearly.

  3. #4243
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    except it's not, every single piece of access media trash has put out articles attacking EVERYBODY, and calls anyone with any criticism regardless of what that criticism is racists, for example a recent review i saw was criticising the costumes, according to these tat publications who's only interest is sucking on the Amazon phallus until such a time as it's no longer profitable to do so, that person who left that negative review is racist for not liking the show, and when i say EVERBODY is being attacked and labelled racist, i mean EVERBODY, so tell me again how it's only racist people disliking this steaming pile of weapons grade bullshit again.

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    except you're wrong, and they are labelling anybody who criticises this show racist regardless of what criticism they levy at this amateur hour project, so like i have said to Dhrizzle, tell me more about how someone criticising the costumes of the show is being racist, because i would love to know what sort of fucked up logic process you have to jump through to come to that warped fucking conclusion.
    I'll never understand how people allow themselves to get this mad over a TV show, let alone take offense when people are pointing out the crystal-clear racist temper tantrums all over the internet over this show. We're talking about people wigging the fuck out over the casting choices for a show based IN A FICTIONAL UNIVERSE.



    It's not real life. It doesn't have to be 100% absolutely faithful to every single word in the lore. You people seriously need to go outside, get some fresh air, and take a break from the internet. Goddamn.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  4. #4244
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Smashing rocks, clearly.
    Don't forget competitive drinking.

  5. #4245
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yeah no one believe an immortal Maiar is around anymore, just Galadriel.

    And even when She brings conclusive proof, they still discart the idea, or say "if she find him it can create problems" or whatever, its just bad writing, and, its Gil'galad that informs Sauron is back, not her.


    Im not rly underestimating then, im treating then what its supposed to be, an elite squad to fight Sauron for hundreds of years

    7 average elf and Galadriel should be able to deal with the troll without getting their asses kicked

    This all come down to bad writing, if they suck so much, just make her go with 3 or 2, if they want to show her power, separate the group and make her solo the troll, like she did without making everyone looking like hobbits.




    If those elves are the elite, they would never win the ar of wrath and banish Morgoth, this is absurd

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    I mean, you find something "right" here and there, but a lot of shit is changed, some that don't make any sense, bad writing, bad dialogue, everything filled with pseudo intelligent speeches trying to be epic and complex. A lot of stuff trying to pull from the movies to bring nostalgia.

    Cgi, scenarios and music is good, though it seems they force the music where it should not be.

    I think this stuff is like fast and furious and transformers, pure garbage, but entertaining to some, especially for the people who don't know about the story or are just trying to take a day off and shut down the brain and watch some fantasy stuff.
    Damn that's disappointing as hell.

  6. #4246
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    except it's not, every single piece of access media trash has put out articles attacking EVERYBODY, and calls anyone with any criticism regardless of what that criticism is racists, for example a recent review i saw was criticising the costumes, according to these tat publications who's only interest is sucking on the Amazon phallus until such a time as it's no longer profitable to do so, that person who left that negative review is racist for not liking the show, and when i say EVERBODY is being attacked and labelled racist, i mean EVERBODY, so tell me again how it's only racist people disliking this steaming pile of weapons grade bullshit again.
    Citation very much needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Valinor isn't actually on Arda after the first age. Tolkien explains it in one of his letters that going to Valinor would be like (my words) leaving California and going straight winding up outside the atmosphere. If humans tried to go to Valinor they would just find the other side of middle earth or whatever the eastern continent.
    It was midway through the Second Age the world was changed after the Numenorean fleet tried to invade Aman, though Tolkien intended to rewrite this so Arda was always a round world.

  7. #4247
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    To me, what they showed conveyed that this was her party for years, if not centuries of hunting. They just chose to show the very breaking point.

    Yea her men didn't do much, but they were clearly exhausted. They might have killed dozens of trolls on their journey before. With all the storytelling they want to do, this clearly just wasn't where they wanted to spend the time.
    That's the crux pf my criticism. Too much implied, nothing shown, and their focus was placed far too much on Galadriel getting things done herself.

    Who finds the unfindable fortress? Who finds the way into the fortress? Who finds the hidden symbol in the table? Who dispatches the snow troll? I get that she is the main character so the focus would be on her, but they could have easily made it so her team actually helps in doing something. Even if fatigued there is plenty they could still do. Even something as simple as moral support would suffice, but her relationship with then is shown to be less-than-friendly the entire time, and they challenge her motives every chance they get and urge her to go home. Yes, the team os stressed, but that doesn't come across if they don't first establish their relationship as being a good and strong one that happened to be strained over time. For it to be merely implied is not a good way to start the show off. It doesn't come across as them having a good relationship at all, it comes off as them being far inferior to her skills, and frankly they have not been shown to be useful at all.

    Their lack of spending the time to properly establish her allies and them permanently removing them from the series by the end of the episode makes them completely pointless and counter-intiuitive to her story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    They literally do that in the second episode.
    Eh, the writing was terrible to put her in the situation in the first place.

    It's multiple layers of nonsense where the most realistic outcome would have been drowning from fatigue. I don't think this is a good example at all.

  8. #4248
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Eh, the writing was terrible to put her in the situation in the first place.

    It's multiple layers of nonsense where the most realistic outcome would have been drowning from fatigue. I don't think this is a good example at all.
    Sure you can not like the scenario but that doesn’t make the message that she can’t do it alone any less blatant.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #4249
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Sure you can not like the scenario but that doesn’t make the message that she can’t do it alone any less blatant.
    If they could show that one dude on the raft being useful, why not establish something similar in the first episode to give her company some worth? They don't even have to be saving her life, just any tangible support to show she can't hoof it alone would make sense. Sorry, but holding a torch doesn't cut it.

    I can even ask you directly what they actually did to support her, and you'd have to stretch things pretty thin to explain what use they actually have. Everything is implied, and that's just poor writing if we're talking about establishing characters in a visual medium.

    Like I said, take notes from other series that actually do it right. Because this is clearly not the way to do it right.

    Fellowship of the Ring Moria scene was done right. Everyone struggled with the Troll, and it took a team effort to take it down. And the Troll wasn't the only obstacle, with everyone being given a moment to shine. Even Sam makes use of his pans to dispatch a couple goblins.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 04:21 PM.

  10. #4250
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they could show that one dude on the raft being useful, why not establish something similar in the first episode to give her company some worth? They don't even have to be saving her life, just any tangible support to show she can't hoof it alone would make sense. Sorry, but holding a torch doesn't cut it.

    I can even ask you directly what they actually did to support her, and you'd have to stretch things pretty thin to explain what use they actually have. Everything is implied, and that's just poor writing if we're talking about establishing characters in a visual medium.

    Like I said, take notes from other series that actually do it right. Because this is clearly not the way to do it right.
    They missed a chance in establishing something of the sort during the climb.
    Have the team help each other. But instead that was mostly to show how little she cared of her own team.

    Ice climbing is a perfect activity for trust, support and teamwork.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-09-08 at 04:25 PM.

  11. #4251
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    They missed a chance in establishing something of the sort during the climb.
    Have the team help each other. But instead that was mostly to show how little she cared of her own team.

    Ice climbing is a perfect activity for trust, support and teamwork.
    That would have been a perfect place for that!

  12. #4252
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they could show that one dude on the raft being useful, why not establish something similar in the first episode to give her company some worth?
    Because her squad isn’t there to show she can’t do it alone they are there to show that she’s gone to far in her quest and that no one trust her judgment at that point.

    They exist for a completely different narrative reason then raft man just like how Boromir doesn’t resist all temptation and support Frodo to the end of his quest like Sam does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    They missed a chance in establishing something of the sort during the climb.
    Have the team help each other. But instead that was mostly to show how little she cared of her own team.

    Ice climbing is a perfect activity for trust, support and teamwork.
    They do have the team help each other two elfs help up her second before the camera pans to her going up further alone creating an obvious divide between her and the rest of her squad.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #4253
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Because her squad isn’t there to show she can’t do it alone they are there to show that she’s gone to far in her quest and that no one trust her judgment at that point.

    They exist for a completely different narrative reason then raft man just like how Boromir doesn’t resist all temptation and support Frodo to the end of his quest like Sam does.
    Yes, thank you. That has been my point. We can agree that they didn't introduce these characters to show support. They are not there to show she can't do it alone. And for them to be introduced in that position makes them pointless to her story, because 'showing she's gone too far' can also be achieved by showing her hunt down Sauron alone, just as we see her at the end of the episode.

    The company was absolutely pointless to her story. Whether they were there or not, she was still going to go hunt Sauron on her own. All other dialogue could have been done through her reflecting on flashback scenes. Mandalorian did this well, showing more and more of Din's past as he slips into memories when he falls asleep or gets rocked. Even some of the best parts of Book of Boba Fett were flashbacks.

    The show didn't even need to introduce her leading a company and ending up on a boat to Valinor to establish this, they were already implied with her literally trekking into the north to find Sauron. In context of what we've seen of her party, it would have made zero difference if the other Elves were with her or not. They were only ever shown holding her back. They were as useful to her as the survivors on the raft sans Dude who Saved Her. Like, it could have literally been an empty raft and nothing would have been different other than the one scene where lightning conveniently strikes her pole and has her drowning just so dude-who-doesn't-care could save her
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 05:06 PM.

  14. #4254
    @Triceron if you're lucky they might make a prequel series that goes into all the details you might desire about the Elves who accompany Galadriel to the North, but for this series it isn't necessary at all.

  15. #4255
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    They do have the team help each other two elfs help up her second before the camera pans to her going up further alone creating an obvious divide between her and the rest of her squad.
    Which enhances the point that she doesn't need her team...
    Reason why I brought this scene up is because it would be perfect to actually establish some form of relationship between the two that would show they actually do need each other. But instead the scene shows the opposite, as you even seem to agree on.

    Not even sure what your argument is.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-09-08 at 04:52 PM.

  16. #4256
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, thank you. That has been my point. We can agree that they didn't introduce these characters to show support. They are not there to show she can't do it alone. And for them to be introduced in that position makes them pointless to her story, because 'showing she's gone too far' can also be achieved by showing her hunt down Sauron alone, just as we see her at the end of the episode.

    The company was absolutely pointless to her story. Whether they were there or not, she was still going to go hunt Sauron on her own. All other dialogue could have been done through her reflecting on flashback scenes. Mandalorian did this well, showing more and more of Din's past as he slips into memories when he falls asleep or gets rocked.

    The show didn't even need to introduce her leading a company and ending up on a boat to Valinor to establish this, they were already implied with her literally trekking into the north to find Sauron. In context of what we've seen of her party, it would have made zero difference if the other Elves were with her or not. They were only ever shown holding her back. They were as useful to her as the survivors on the raft sans Dude who Saved Her. Like, it could have literally been an empty raft and nothing would have been different other than the one scene where lightning conveniently strikes her pole and has her drowning just so dude-who-doesn't-care could save her
    Did you miss the part where she returned to Lindon with the other Elves because she couldn't continue the hunt alone?

  17. #4257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Did you miss the part where she returned to Lindon with the other Elves because she couldn't continue the hunt alone?
    Her motives contradict her actions. She returned to Lindon, but we don't even really know why or for what reason. Look at the scene where she gets the ultimatum from her company, she doesn't go back willingly. This may imply that she can't do it alone, but she literally explains to Elrond that she's determined to go back alone. My argument that her decision to return does not make sense based on what we've seen established in her journey. She goes back, but there is nothing that implies she had to because she needed support of her troops, because the show failed to establish that connection. It's actually left completely ambiguous, and only implies she has to go back because of the other Elves. But there are other factors as well, like her seeking Elrond to have an audience with the King to show him Sauron's mark.

    And what exactly did her returning to Lindon actually serve to make her decide she will go it alone, and not when she's already in the North?

    Well, the writers needed her to have some dialogue with Elrond and set up to place her in the middle of the ocean, is what. These events are all written to have her placed in a situation that takes her to Numenor.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 05:21 PM.

  18. #4258
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Her motives contradict her actions. She returned to Lindon, but we don't even really know why or for what reason. Look at the scene where she gets the ultimatum from her company, she doesn't go back willingly. This may imply that she can't do it alone, but she literally explains to Elrond that she's determined to go back alone. So what exactly did her returning to Lindon actually serve to make her decide she will go it alone, and not when she's already in the North?

    Well, the writers needed her to have some dialogue with Elrond and set up to place her in the middle of the ocean, is what. These events are all written to have her placed in a situation that takes her to Numenor.
    And it seems pretty clear to everyone present, characters and audience alike, that it would mean pretty much certain death if she did go alone. And really dude, you can't imagine any other way for her to go to Numenor, like just deciding to go, hearing rumours of Sauron or receiving word from the Faithful?

  19. #4259
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    @Triceron if you're lucky they might make a prequel series that goes into all the details you might desire about the Elves who accompany Galadriel to the North, but for this series it isn't necessary at all.
    That would be a better story than the one they are trying to spit here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    And it seems pretty clear to everyone present, characters and audience alike, that it would mean pretty much certain death if she did go alone. And really dude, you can't imagine any other way for her to go to Numenor, like just deciding to go, hearing rumours of Sauron or receiving word from the Faithful?
    If she went alone nothing would change, it would not be certain death, the show make it prtty clear she is stronger than everyone else and does not get tired

    the group is 100% there to be dumb and weak so she can be intelligent and strong, and to make some nonsensical small talk about the plot

  20. #4260
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    And it seems pretty clear to everyone present, characters and audience alike, that it would mean pretty much certain death if she did go alone. And really dude, you can't imagine any other way for her to go to Numenor, like just deciding to go, hearing rumours of Sauron or receiving word from the Faithful?
    But that's my POINT!

    They COULD do any alternative to have her placed in Numenor, but THIS is the way they're doing it and it's absolutely counter-intuitive. It makes the entire company of Elves pointless to her story, and the entire story we're given so far is a roundabout way to place her near Numenor. There's literally no other reason I see that makes sense out of putting her out in sea and having her jump ship to swim it alone when she's that far out in sea. I think that there could have been any number of alternatives that would work, and wouldn't be as ridiculous as what we ended up getting.

    I even wrote this in a reply to another discussion:

    In my mind, that turning point (to go off alone) merely starts earlier in the series. Like, literally after the Troll scene, she lets her party go back to Elf lands, maybe we get some filler scenes with her struggling on her own and having flashbacks thinking back to conversations with Elrond, and finally they cap it off with her finding her journey taking her to Numenor some how, like finding Sauron's symbol on a Numenorean's corpse and leading her to go there.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 05:27 PM.

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