Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

To be fair I am happy they got there now, because this shows is moving at a slow pace, least we not forget that episode 4 next week makes us halfway through the season, We need to see some conflict and the closest thing we have gotten to that is the Arondin arc. :P

Agreed! The pace needs to pick up. Not sure of it was the wisest choice for them to split up the show into 4-5 stories out of the gate, but I'm still interested in seeing where they go with intertwining the plot lines at the end (of the season hopefully).

Numenor setting was definitely a high point this episode. The landscapes are beautiful and the money is well spent there. I also liked that revelation with the Mark. Everything else about the arc felt off. Will see where they take this.

[PACOX]

I feel like this encapsulates the issue with galadriel too. We get one little scene with her bro making some weird explanation of rocks and boats, and then he dies in an exposition dump. We don't feel her loss, or see her transition from a nicer galadriel to the current more irritating one.

It feels like they skipped past a lot of stuff that should have been on screen only to turn into an extremely slow build up to...something.

Some of the stuff they are trying to squeeze/reference is supposed to happen over thousands of years, her story being a good example. It doesn't resonate like they want it to.

[rhorle]

You're not engaging discussion for the sake of discussion...

...And you STILL continued to argue for the sake of arguing, jumping to other points to argue how they weren't useless because they didn't die, or how they drew their swords and got ready to fight or some inane bullshit backpedalling to cover the fact you thought they actually hit the troll at all before she got there.

Do you not see the contradiction in stating that I am not engaging in discussion while at the same time saying I've engaged but you've refuted it? This is again just like when you said a main character can be more useful then non-main characters while complaining that a main character is shown to be more useful. The reason why you endlessly argue I'm a troll is because the parts of the discussion I've engaged with haven't allowed you to win. It is also why you keep repeating "hit" because it is the only part I was wrong about. Strange, right? You just can't move on from being wrong.

[Triceron]

Do you not see the contradiction in stating that I am not engaging in discussion while at the same time saying I've engaged but you've refuted

Sorry but I don't consider you calling me a hater and trolling to be considered discussion. All you want to do is push your 'calling out haters' agenda and start arguments.

The reason why you endlessly argue I'm a troll is because the parts of the discussion I've engaged with haven't allowed you to win. It is also why you keep repeating "hit" because it is the only part I was wrong about. Strange, right? You just can't move on from being wrong.

Er, good discussion isn't about winning, it's about expressing thoughts and opinions. That you even see things in a win-lose dynamic tells me you're only in it to win an argument, in this case one that you instigated by calling people haters and trolling. You never lose an argument because you just pretend you never made a losing statement and move on to something else you can argue about. Would you admit that you made a mistake saying the Elves hit the Troll? No? Exactly my point. You're all bad faith, man.

Have you even started talking about the new episode or some good discussion yet? Nope. You're still bickering and arguing for the sake of arguing, and that's all you're doing here.

Fucking hypocrite lol

[DarkAmbient]

That's all he ever does. Please don't reply anymore or it will never stop.

[rhorle]

Sorry but I don't consider you calling me a hater and trolling to be considered discussion. All you want to do is push your 'calling out haters' agenda.

And yet you had no problem engaging in the discussion when we were discussing scenes of the show or themes present, right? Again you selectively apply definitions in order to create an illusion of superiority. If a good discussion isn't about winning or express thoughts why have you turned away from good discussion when you contradicted your own discussion?

My replies are a waste of space and I'm a hypocrite. Yet you keep responding and furthering the conversation. Isn't it strange how I'm always the one at fault for continuing to have a conversation when you would be just as guilty for continuing it yourself. I'm not just bickering and arguing for the sake of it but discussing the same as you. The only problem is I've upset your feelings because I didn't agree with you, or others, on a subject.

[Triceron]

And yet you had no problem engaging in the discussion when we were discussing scenes of the show or themes present, right?

Yes. That was before I realized you were delusional.

Again you selectively apply definitions in order to create an illusion of superiority. If a good discussion isn't about winning or express thoughts why have you turned away from good discussion when you contradicted your own discussion?

With you? Because you're delusional and aren't interested in a good faith discussion. You came out of the gate calling me a Galadriel Hater and I believed you were misunderstanding my position, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt to explain myself more properly. That only lead to you doubling down on your attacks, and eventually to the point where you revealed that you misunderstood the entire scene that I was criticizing and thought that I was 'falsely criticizing' the Elves by calling them useless while you thought they actually contributed to the fight against the Snow Troll and hit it. And when the mistake was pointed out you tried to find some other angle to continue arguing, like doubling down on your 'Galadriel Hater' argument.

Whatever good faith I had in the discussion was squandered by your own actions. I tried being reasonable, and you chose to only engage in arguments rather than sticking to the point of what was being criticized. Like I said, you're just interested in trolling.

My replies are a waste of space and I'm a hypocrite.

Yes, because you're the one who talked about wanting to promote high level good discussion. Did you ever see me proclaim such things in this thread? I don't think I did. You did. And yet I can see from your entire post history that you've never even engaged in high level good discussion once in the past 10 days. So yes, you are a fucking hypocrite. "Do as I say, not as I do".

I don't claim to be anything you're attacking me for. I can engage in responding to you because I'm not above being petty. I don't hold a higher moral ground. And I see you nothing less than an equal in this regard. We're both trolls. I'm not above petty bickering if that's what it gets down to, and that's what I'm literally pointing out is happening right now despite you claiming that you're trying to aim towards something better.

Even now, I could be engaging in other discussions about the 3rd episode, and you're still wasting my time with replies and filling up the thread by instigating this back and forth. You realize that if you stop talking, I wouldn't have to reply to you right? You intend to blow out my flames, but all you're doing is fanning it. So keep it up, because I'm just going to keep burning if that's what you want. I'm making a statement here, that every Rhorle post is a shitpost, and every discussion Rhorle engages in results in shitposting.

All the while, I'll carry on having normal discussions with other people in this thread about the show.

The cards are in your hands, my friend.

[rhorle]

Yes. That was before I realized you were delusional.

So then isn't it odd you accuse me of derailing the thread and being a hypocrite when you've just admitted you are the one that did it after you didn't like my responses? It also shows you are flat out lying that I didn't take time to consider your position if we were have an actual discussion on those at one point. It instead shows that you got salty at having your arguments defeated (or contradicted by your own words) and thus keep flailing about.

I'm not wasting your time because you don't have to keep responding. You could be discussing with others about the 3rd episode but you choose not to. It is crazy that you call me delusional while at the same time saying I have control over your own actions. It is also amusing how you now claim to be a troll which shows that calling you out for troll-worthy arguments was perfectly fine. Again you contradict your own claims and prove your own arguments to be false.

[downnola]

Funny you should mention that last bit, because Tolkien created Lord of the rings because he wanted there to he a history of the ancient English past.
"The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings were conceived as the original stories behind an ancient but long lost English mythology"

Not true.

It's not worth arguing about either because people will see and project what they want on Tolkien's work regardless of what Tolkien and his son say about his intentions.

So he created LOTR much for the same reason Wakanda was created.
Perhaps we should leave both alone, yes?

This is such a ridiculous argument that I don't even know how to respond to it. Black Panther exists because there was no African representation in American comics. The notion that England, the creator of the largest imperial force that spanned across the entire globe, lacks representation in anything is flatly absurd. Again, it's a horrible comparison so, please, leave it alone already.

And the first part I very much disagree with, first, lets both agree that if something is fiction, anything is possible when you are the author. If you write something set during WWII you could have Aliens come save the day or any number of other scenarios.
Most writing, doesn't matter if you have magic or not, adheres to a set of rules, and if those rules are broken within that story, it takes people out of it.
The start of a movie, franchise or series will set the tone for what we can expect.
In a serious racing movie like Senna, we expect a different level of realism than we do in Fast and the Furious 7.
Fantasy generally comes in 2 or 3 types, depending on how you look at it, you have child/teen fantasy, this focuses more on fantastical elements, it's usually not internally consistent, but can be a lot of fun to watch.
Then you have mature fantasy, by this I don't mean mature people should like it more, but this type of fantasy generally sets out with a premise like "we are on a different planet, there are Elves Orcs and Trolls here" after accepting the mutual premise we expect it to be a place where things should happen as they would if the place was real.
There are often discussions within this last type of fantasy if certain things would really happen or not.
The original trilogy would be cheapened if superman showed up to help Frodo destroy the ring or if Gandalf could cast a spell powerful enough to destroy Mordor.

I don't know what you're disagreeing with here or what the point you're trying to make is. You and the previous poster seem to be insisting that rules set within a story need to be followed or it will break immersion. The races of elves, dwarves, hobbits, and orcs are entirely made up by Tolkien. Whatever evolutionary traits they would have are entirely up to the creator. Tolkien used no source material to base them on.

Per Tolkien:

…I did no study or research for my tale. It is an ‘invention’ from beginning to end… If it is ‘English’ — (not British, please) — that is because I am English… no one of us can really invent or ‘create’ in a void, we can only reconstruct and perhaps impress a personal pattern on ‘ancestral’ material. The origin of the names and fragments of languages in the books could, of course, be discovered by anyone of similar linguistic experience as my own; but that would not reveal much. I invented the word hobbit, and can say no more about it than it seemed to me to fit the creatures that I had already in mind.* Elves is an English word, but the nature and history of the peoples so-called in my books has little or nothing to do with the European traditions about Elves or Fairies. Ent is also an ancient English word (for a giant); but the Ents of my world are I suppose an entirely original ‘creatures’ — so far as that can be said of any human work. If you like, they are a ‘mythological’ form taken by my lifelong love of trees, with perhaps some remote influence from George MacDonald’s Phantastes (a work I do not actually much like), and certainly a strong [twist?] given by my deep disappointment with Shakespeare’s Macbeth…

The man did not set the rules for the evolutionary traits of the fictional people in his story. His descriptions of these groups were vague unless certain details were absolutely necessary. If seeing a black dwarf breaks the immersion of the story for you, it's because you're projecting your own rules of what these groups can or cannot be on to the story yourself. You readily accept that plants like potatoes, tomatoes, and tobacco exist in Middle-Earth despite being unavailable in Europe until the 1400s, do you not? I don't see anyone making a big deal about those rules being broken in this thread. If you're going to insist the story follow European history and tradition then that should upset you as well. I hope you're able to see what I'm getting at here.

[Myradin]

Some of the stuff they are trying to squeeze/reference is supposed to happen over thousands of years, her story being a good example. It doesn't resonate like they want it to.

That's part of it, but i think its that combined with her story having to be alongside the stories of other people with shorter lifespans.

I mean, if episode 1 was all about Galadriel's earlier years, growing up with her brother, witnessing some of the horrific events of the trees and the war and stuff, and him dieing and her deciding to go be a badass, and then in episode 2 we get...well the current episode 1 more or less, I think people would be more on board with her.

[rhorle]

That's part of it, but i think its that combined with her story having to be alongside the stories of other people with shorter lifespans.

The show really is struggling trying to fit two thousand years into forty episodes. As they have stated they have all five seasons planned out and it will end with Isildur cutting the ring off of Sauron.

[Triceron]

So then isn't it odd you accuse me of derailing the thread and being a hypocrite when you've just admitted you are the one that did it after you didn't like my responses?

Yes, and that wouldn't make me a hypocrite because I never claimed to stay on topic with anything. As I said, only you claimed to want to promote 'high-level good discussion'. So no, that wouldn't make me a hypocrite as well. Sorry, but your reversal tactics don't work here, you fucking hypocrite.

It is crazy that you call me delusional while at the same time saying I have control over your own actions. It is also amusing how you now claim to be a troll which shows that calling you out for troll-worthy arguments was perfectly fine. Again you contradict your own claims and prove your own arguments to be false.

You don't have control over my actions at all. I can stop posting to you whenever I want. I choose not to, to illustrate to you and everyone clearly that any discussion you engage in results in shitposting. That's exactly what this fucking is isn't it?

I'll even open it up to you - Bring up any topic on the 3rd episode and I'll have a conversation about it with you if you want to. Let's start clean, let's get back on track, if that's what you want. Otherwise, I have no problem with continuing this inane bullshit if that's what you want to do too. I'll let you decide.

- - - Updated - - -

This is such a ridiculous argument that I don't even know how to respond to it. Black Panther exists because there was no African representation in American comics. The notion that England, the creator of the largest imperial force that spanned across the entire globe, lacks representation in anything is flatly absurd. Again, it's a horrible comparison so, please, leave it alone already.

I think the point of his message was they were created with the same intentions in mind - to create a mythology that represents a culture where it did not previously exist.

Tolkien's motivations for building Middle Earth have been attributed to him wanting to build a mythology around Northern Europe (England) and tell stories that interested him all the while. That is what lead him to create a universe, and spend time on describing settings, and culture down to the details like what food they ate and what languages they spoke.

It doesn't really do with what England was lacking at the time, it was about the source of creativity springing from a desire to build a new mythology around a particular culture.

[bledgor]

Episode 3 might have pushed me over the edge. They took Galadriel, a character I quite liked and made her an insufferable suicidal idiot. She gets captured and still acts like an entitled princess, during the meeting with Miriel she admits that if Elendil hadn't found her and Halbrand she would have certainly died (so considering she jumped off her original ship with no help in sight means she was literally committing suicide in her thoughts instead of going to Valinor?? what the fuck amazon??).

I continue to hate everything about the Harfoots, including the new tradition where if you fall behind you get abandoned.

Somehow all of the elves with Arondir get captured off screen??? Oh and apparently all the elves are blind because while keeping on eye on the southern men they missed this giant swath of forest the orcs had destroyed as well as the orcs. Oh and the orcs are praying(?) to Adar, and we maybe get a blurred picture of him, guess they want us to believe it is Sauron, but mate you have Halbro. I guess with him and the forge scene and other tidbits you are trying to make use guess, but come on we know.

No Elrond (meh) but no dwarfs either (the only bright spot of the show for me other than music/some visuals) and the slow pacing of the recent episodes and I am just losing my drive to watch anymore.

[MCMLXXXII]

We all know you keep watching.

[Ihavewaffles]

Guyladriel, looks so...homely, plain, looks more like she belongs to Rohan...or like a half-elf than an elf..meh she is so annoying too, like a stubborn girl yet she is supposed to be really old..

[Lady Atia]

They actually made me dislike Galadriel, what the fuck.

Why did they turn such a likeable character into an unsufferable cunt? Rest is OK

Tell me you hate strong independend women without saying it.

Galadriel is awesome in the show, and she is just at the start of her arc to become LotR Galadriel ...

[Ihavewaffles]

I continue to hate everything about the Harfoots, including the new tradition where if you fall behind you get abandoned.

No that part made sense, remember they are little folk, timid. And unlike gnomes they don't have magic nor amazing inventions..what doesn't make much sense is how they are such a tiny lil community, some are white, some asian, some black, like how do they maintain that? You would think they would have mixed into one common appearance by now, unless there is a much larger community out there, but these harfoots act like they are all alone in the world, still, I like them a lot more than not-Gandalf walking around like a dumb child. I'd prefer if they instead had made an entire show about harfoots, and they sometimes meet up with other harfoots, n there are adventures n dangers ahead. I'd prefer that show to Guyladriel with a stick up her arse prancing around like elf-Karen..

Somehow all of the elves with Arondir get captured off screen??? Oh and apparently all the elves are blind because while keeping on eye on the southern men they missed this giant swath of forest the orcs had destroyed as well as the orcs. Oh and the orcs are praying(?) to Adar, and we maybe get a blurred picture of him, guess they want us to believe it is Sauron, but mate you have Halbro. I guess with him and the forge scene and other tidbits you are trying to make use guess, but come on we know.

Makes no sense for Sauron to have a bunch of orcs digging half-open tunnels near sunlight n being there with him, they should have been exposed by now.. Sauron should instead have built his forces under some mountain..gather his strength...

[Lady Atia]

Guyladriel, looks so...homely, plain, looks more like she belongs to Rohan...or like a half-elf than an elf..meh she is so annoying too, like a stubborn girl yet she is supposed to be really old..

Her acting fits with other elves around her age, like f.e. Feanor. Dude was also a prick filled with rage, grief, and pride. She still has some thousand years to become the one we saw in the Hobbit/LotR.

[Triceron]

There's a lot to like, but the pacing kills everything.

It's all over the place, and I can't get a feeling that this is one story that I'm watching. It feels like I'm watching 3-4 shows in one, and cut in a way where I'm not really invested in any of them as much as I'd like to.

I'll say that the Harfoot main character is starting to grow on me, and I really do enjoy her character and acting. I just can't really enjoy the Harfoot story fully because the entire arc feels so late and out-of-place after Numenor. I think the episode might have worked better for me if they started off with the light-hearted Harfoot arc and built up to the Numenor and Southlands, rather than have it punctuated in the middle and end when the tone of the episode was already set to be quite dire and serious. Also, the Harfoot arc is really just dragging on. I really do enjoy them and I think their hiding antics is really fun, but I find myself skipping chunks of their scenes just to get back to the main narrative. It's really an unnecessary side-plot at this point, practically a different show in itself.

[MCMLXXXII]

The pacing is really off. And while I like most of what I seen so far, Galadriel really is a miss.