Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Biomega]

Can we just not get into this again. Yes, we get it, some people here don't want to see black people in a fantasy show but they're REALLY not veiled racists they swear pinky promise just don't want black people but not because they're racist just... uh... for other reasons that aren't racist, yeah, please, that, thank you.

We've discussed it enough. Racists gonna racist. If discussion could cure them of it, we'd have gotten there 100 pages ago. Now it's just derailing things.

Let's get back to how a hero character in a hero show somehow isn't allowed to be more powerful than everyone else, and how showing her motivations should be eschewed in favor of just skipping to the end and putting here where she ends up anyway.

Or something. It didn't make sense to me 5 pages ago, and it still doesn't, but apparently some people just REALLY hate to learn about why characters do stuff and just want to see them do what they end up doing without learning how they got there.

Cool.

[rhorle]

Yes, and I still stand by that point because that isn't my actual criticism of the show, smartass. Feel free to continue defending the bad writing then, but like I said, that is my criticism of the show as they present it.

It is or it isn't your criticism of the show? Lmao. It is crazy the lengths you go to deny something while also arguing for the something. This is why the lens of hatred taints your arguments but you selectively choose when to apply them depending on you being for or against a certain part.

Dude, you're absolutely delusional to the point where you literally revised the entire show to fit your own bogus argument.

They are fighting it. That isn't a delusional thing. They have weapons drawn and are in close proximity even after others have already been hit. Some are even moving toward the troll. If you can watch a video clip of the scene and think they are not fighting then it further shows your selective bias at work. You are choosing to interpret the scene only a certain way even when you directly provide proof of them doing what you claim they are not.

[Triceron]

They are fighting it. That isn't a delusional thing. They have weapons drawn and are in close proximity even after others have already been hit. Some are even moving toward the troll.

I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.

If you're fine with the scene, then sure, all the power to you. If you're actually arguing they hit the snow troll and getting absolutely wrecked is 'fighting', then yeah we're not on the same page at all.

It is or it isn't your criticism of the show? Lmao

It isn't, because you cherry picked and misinterpreted something that I never actually complained about.

Having a skill gap isn't a problem. Being singularly portrayed as useless or detrimental is a problem.

Look at the snow troll fight again. Where do they actually contribute to its defeat.

[rhorle]

I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.

They are fighting. Weapons drawn when the first two get hit by a chunk of ice. The only one that doesn't appear to have a weapon is the one with the torch that gets hit shortly after the ice chunk. The next one that moves toward the troll has their weapon drawn. The last two were clearly engaging the troll rather then keeping a distance.

Is a fight now only a time when you win? Take a breather and think about how far you are moving the goal posts in order to not have to admit you were wrong on the internet. The only delusional one here is yourself that refuses the evidence provided by yourself to continue to argue a claim you proved was factually incorrect. Lmao.

[bledgor]

I admire your moxy, but you're still absolutely delusional.

If you're fine with the scene, then sure, all the power to you. If you're actually arguing they hit the snow troll and getting absolutely wrecked is 'fighting', then yeah we're not on the same page at all.



It isn't, because you cherry picked and misinterpreted something that I never actually complained about.

Having a skill gap isn't a problem. Being singularly portrayed as useless or detrimental is a problem.

Look at the snow troll fight again. Where do they actually contribute to its defeat.

You just aren't getting it Triceron, they TOTALLY helped defeat it by tiring it out by letting it beat the shit out of them, geeze.

[rhorle]

You just aren't getting it Triceron, they TOTALLY helped defeat it by tiring it out by letting it beat the shit out of them, geeze.

It not facing Galadriel gave her a distinct advantage for her jump attack. So it is silly to claim their presence had no impact on the fight just because they weren't killing it in one shot. There are plenty of things to dislike about the show with out having to invent things just so you can hate on the show.

[Triceron]

Is a fight now only a time when you win? Take a breather and think about how far you are moving the goal posts in order to not have to admit you were wrong on the internet. The only delusional one here is yourself that refuses the evidence provided by yourself to continue to argue a claim you proved was factually incorrect. Lmao.

If you acknowledge that the Elves were losing in a one-sided fight, then you're acknowledging the exact problem with that my criticism is aimed at.

Whatever else you're saying to try to spin your words around to imply they did more than just get wiped out by the Troll is pretty much delusion. 'Look, they didn't die. See, they're weren't useless after all!' No, the meaning of usefulness is relative to quality of their contribution to the fight, and it's pretty clear that they contributed nothing.

Even as a thought experiment, did you think Galadriel needed any of the Elves' help to handle the Snow Troll?

[bledgor]

It not facing Galadriel gave her a distinct advantage for her jump attack. So it is silly to claim their presence had no impact on the fight just because they weren't killing it in one shot. There are plenty of things to dislike about the show with out having to invent things just so you can hate on the show.

THEY LITERALLY LANDED 0 BLOWS ON IT, Galadriel wasn't even close to getting hit and landed every blow, she needed no help at all to deal with it, they would have died to it. STop lying and inventing shit.

[rhorle]

If you acknowledge that the Elves were losing in a one-sided fight, then you're acknowledging the exact problem with that my criticism is aimed at.

You said it was delusional to call it a fight. Which is it? A one-sided fight or not a fight? Isn't it weird that I am putting a spin on words by calling it a fight when you yourself are not by calling it a fight? You pick and choose what argument to accept depending on if it is for or against your own argument. If it supports your argument then it is fine to say. If it is against your argument then it is wrong for reasons you invent.

You are creating double standards and acting in bad faith so you never have to be wrong. Again you also prove your argument false by saying they contributed nothing. One provided a ramp from his sword for Galadriel to jump from. The others took the focus of the troll so she could catch it by surprise. By virtue of your own words, and video you provided, they were not useless. Yet you'll ignore that so you can hate just for the sake of it.

She likely didn't need help to handle a snow troll but that thought experiment has not relevance to anything being discussed. There are plenty of what ifs but they don't matter to the story that was told. You have enough problems accepting the actual facts with out moving the goal posts to those what ifs.

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THEY LITERALLY LANDED 0 BLOWS ON IT, Galadriel wasn't even close to getting hit and landed every blow, she needed no help at all to deal with it, they would have died to it. STop lying and inventing shit.

I haven't lied or invented anything. You can still be in a fight with out landing a blow. Galadriel caught it by surprise because it was focused on crushing one of the elves. Why would she need help in a swift attack? Why is it a problem that she needs no help? She is the main character of this story and even in the lore more powerful then others.

You also can't say they would have died to it because we never saw a longer fight. I'm curious did you have a problem that not every elf could replicate Legolas in the Jackson trilogies? Or is it only a problem now that one elf is more powerful then the rest?

[bledgor]

If you acknowledge that the Elves were losing in a one-sided fight, then you're acknowledging the exact problem with that my criticism is aimed at.

Whatever else you're saying to try to spin your words around to imply they did more than just get wiped out by the Troll is pretty much delusion. 'Look, they didn't die. See, they're weren't useless after all!' No, the meaning of usefulness is relative to quality of their contribution to the fight, and it's pretty clear that they contributed nothing.

Even as a thought experiment, did you think Galadriel needed any of the Elves' help to handle the Snow Troll?

stop replying to him, he obviously doesn't read or chooses to misinterpret every criticism of the show to fit his agenda, he thinks when I said the elfs are useless that means I said they weren't even in the fight. Guy is trolling hard.

[Triceron]

You said it was delusional to call it a fight.

No, I called YOU delusional.

I said if you considered them hitting the troll, you're delusional, because it never actually happened. Then you started backpedaling to ignoring the fact you even said they were hitting it, and tried to argue that they were fighting it because they had swords drawn out.

There's no actual point to your argument other than for the sake of arguing because my whole criticism is that they were useless in the fight. The point is, you argued that they contributed to the fight and were hitting it, when they DIDN'T HIT IT AT ALL. And if you had confronted me about my criticisms under the false assumption that they were actually hitting the Troll in the fight, maybe you should take a step back and readdress what the fuck you're actually arguinghere.

All you're doing is backpedalling your arguments and cherry picking something new to argue about, and I don't really give a fuck about your delusions.

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stop replying to him, he obviously doesn't read or chooses to misinterpret every criticism of the show to fit his agenda, he thinks when I said the elfs are useless that means I said they weren't even in the fight. Guy is trolling hard.

I think you're right. It was amusing at first but now he's just getting annoying.

[rhorle]

No, I called YOU delusional.

For calling it a fight. Lmao. You said calling "Absolutely wrecked a fight" was part of that delusion. Yet you then proceed to use the term fight when you believe it will support your argument. This is the problem with you. You continually argue in bad faith and pick and choose when to apply an argument depending on if it will help or hurt the topic of the moment.

I haven't back pedaled any of my arguments. Isn't it strange that the only one that keeps changing how they are arguing is yourself? I've used the same arguments to defend the same things this entire time. Remember you said it was okay for characters to be weak compared to the main character so you've already put the nail in the coffin here. Yet once again you ignore your own words to continue saying it is a problem that some characters weren't as useful as the main character.

[InfiniteCharger]

Come on man most of us here are very experienced with group combat in High Fantasy settings.

Galadriel saved them from getting wiped. Period.

There was no real fight. LOL.


Compare that to this:



Or this:



And this:




Both of these show how most of us are accustomed to seeing group coordination and combat in high fantasy settings.

That fight with Galadriel doesn't even fit in the same category on any level.

And just like everything else in this show, it is being different just to be different.

Most people defending it are just defending that right to exist as different more than anything else.

Making sense, having good writing, fitting into the lore, following high fantasy tropes and so forth don't matter in that case.

[rhorle]

stop replying to him, he obviously doesn't read or chooses to misinterpret every criticism of the show to fit his agenda, he thinks when I said the elfs are useless that means I said they weren't even in the fight. Guy is trolling hard.

Specific false criticisms is not every criticism. It is crazy how haters always have an all or nothing policy when it comes to things. That if you don't back them on every criticism even if it is wrong or unfounded then you are the unreasonable one here. It isn't trolling to stand up to hate just for the sake of it. I get MMO-Champion in its twilight years has attracted a lot of folks who love to hate-consume content but calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a troll is dumb.

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Making sense, having good writing, fitting into the lore, following high fantasy tropes and so forth don't matter in that case.

It does however fit this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1L8IjuQ6w

It is silly to claim that fights in High Fantasy have never relied on a solo character to win. Or that others were losing until one character shows up. The scene in question is not different just to be different. It is a a short fight where characters got ambushed from a prey that was stalking them. (The hand of the troll briefly shows on screen when they first enter the tunnels/cavern). Saved by the main character. That fits as much as your grandiose scenes do.

[bledgor]

Specific false criticisms is not every criticism. It is crazy how haters always have an all or nothing policy when it comes to things. That if you don't back them on every criticism even if it is wrong or unfounded then you are the unreasonable one here. It isn't trolling to stand up to hate just for the sake of it. I get MMO-Champion in its twilight years has attracted a lot of folks who love to hate-consume content but calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a troll is dumb.

You literally inserted we said they didn't fight in the battle with the ice troll when I know I at least never said that, I said they were useless in the fight. You mindless suck on amazons tit trying to prop up this sub par shit show of a billion dollar production like you are getting paid too. I don't hate LoTR, I fucking love it, which is why I expect the best if someone wants to adapt it because that is what it deserves. Are you happy when you order a steak and you get a hamburger cut into the shape of steak with lettuce on it? Fuck no you would be pissed, and that is what this show is.

You are trolling by PURPOSEFULLY writing people as saying things they didn't say, by ignoring all of our points and throwing out we are haters just because we disagree. I am so fucking tired of people that think just because something is made we have to accept it or it is hate, no if something is garbage I don't have to accept or be happy about it, and no matter if you love or hate something YOU CAN STILL CRITICIZE IT.

Till you want to stop lying/rewriting what people say and be honest in discussion and stop trolling, ta-ta.

[Sialina]

Specific false criticisms is not every criticism. It is crazy how haters always have an all or nothing policy when it comes to things. That if you don't back them on every criticism even if it is wrong or unfounded then you are the unreasonable one here. It isn't trolling to stand up to hate just for the sake of it. I get MMO-Champion in its twilight years has attracted a lot of folks who love to hate-consume content but calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a troll is dumb.

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It does however fit this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1L8IjuQ6w

It is silly to claim that fights in High Fantasy have never relied on a solo character to win. Or that others were losing until one character shows up. The scene in question is not different just to be different. It is a a short fight where characters got ambushed from a prey that was stalking them. (The hand of the troll briefly shows on screen when they first enter the tunnels/cavern). Saved by the main character. That fits as much as your grandiose scenes do.

Looking at the video you linked, one of the main criticisms levied at the Hobbit movies were Legolas antigravity fighting, and the scene with him surfing the shield in the original trilogy is often mentioned as the most ridiculous fight scene in the whole trilogy. The Oliphant scene is pretty awesome though.

There are just so many other problems with this show though, the elven aesthetics are way off, elves with buzzcuts? Old elves? Celebrimbor is one of the worst elves I have ever seen, it looks like your average grandfather cosplaying an elf.

The one thing I like is the Scenery, if you pause on any frame of the two trees they look amazing, the lore butchering that is going on, the schoolplay level dialogue and the stupid action makes me really dislike it though. I'll mention here that I didn't like the Hobbit movies either, there were some ok bits, but the battle of the 5 armies was a 5/10 movie at best. Stupid fight scenes, fast and the furious level physics, REALLY stupid tactics, horrible comic relief.
Not to mention the romance between Tauriel and that dwarf guy. The least dwarf looking dwarf in all of existence. I liked Tauriel, but she absolutely didn't need a love story with a dwarf of all things.
They should've taken Legolas out of the movie entirely, given the good action set pieces to Tauriel, and that human looking dwarf had to go.

The original trilogy was a 9.5/10 for me
The hobbit was a 5.5/10 (fist movie upping the score, the last 2 really being pretty bad)
and this show is at best a 4/10

[Triceron]

It isn't trolling to stand up to hate just for the sake of it.

Why do you have so much hatred for criticism?

[Ragedaug]

Middle Earth isn't real. Orcs, Dwarves, and Elves are not real. If you can suspend disbelief enough to accept that a dude can fall from the sky like a meteor and not die or use a fucking stick to cast spells, then it shouldn't require a whole lot of mental effort to imagine a non-white elf or dwarf. It's insane to me that you and others are expending this much effort to rationalize disliking non-whites in movies.

Just cause "magic" doesn't mean you get to break all the rules of physics and science. And sure you can do whatever you want when you are writing fiction. But if it's something that breaks our understanding of universal laws, it helps to explain it. Making Middle Earth look like the United States seems like an odd choice.

I mean, I guess you folks would have been OK if they made Wakanda reflect the racial diversity of the United States, but it would have seemed like a really odd choice to me.

[rhorle]

Why do you have so much hatred for criticism?

Because criticism that is unfounded or selectively applied is dumb. It does nothing but echo hatred of something. Remember you still argue that the first 20 mins is bad writing despite saying it is perfectly fine for a main character to be displayed in such a way. Do you really think that type of criticism shouldn't be stood up to? That low effort contradictory things should be allowed to be said just because?

Why not offer up high-level good effort discussions? Or is the point of criticism just to rant and find an echo of such rantings?

[Ragedaug]

Because criticism that is unfounded or selectively applied is dumb. It does nothing but echo hatred of something. Remember you still argue that the first 20 mins is bad writing despite saying it is perfectly fine for a main character to be displayed in such a way. Do you really think that type of criticism shouldn't be stood up to? That low effort contradictory things should be allowed to be said just because?

Why not offer up high-level good effort discussions? Or is the point of criticism just to rant and find an echo of such rantings?

Their criticism can also be high-level good effort discussions. It just differs from your opinion. If the poster is trolling, best just not to respond to them. I don't understand why you think everyone has to love everything about this show or else they are a troll.

Is it not possible that some folks just don't like it?