1. #4661
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The Unfinished tales has a story of an elf named Amroth that swam "off into the distance". There is also the Teleri that were taught everything about the Sea by Osse. Swimming is implied. The obvious counter to your argument is how many bathroom breaks does Tolkien write about?
    https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Amroth

    This guy?

    At dawn of the following morning, the storm dissipated. However, when Amroth awoke, he saw that the ship was already far from its port. Full of despair, Amroth screamed Nimrodel's name, threw himself into the water below and drowned.

  2. #4662
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Amroth

    This guy?

    At dawn of the following morning, the storm dissipated. However, when Amroth awoke, he saw that the ship was already far from its port. Full of despair, Amroth screamed Nimrodel's name, threw himself into the water below and drowned.
    I swear some of these posters do some random google searches for the topics being discussed like "lotr elf swim" and copy/paste the first thing they find into this board without any regard or knowledge about what they're doing
    Last edited by tikcol; 2022-09-13 at 03:36 PM.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  3. #4663
    Hey, it could be worse.

    You could have had a couple of untrained magic users decimate the a huge army of Orcs with magic they were never taught or had the ability to use, die in the process, and then be magically revived because someone felt bad, utterly removing any stakes or logic from the show from that point on.

    /goes off to grumble about WoT..............

  4. #4664
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    This guy?
    “The mariners with their Elvish sight for a long time could see him battling with the waves, until the rising sun gleamed through the clouds and far off lit his bright hair like a spark of gold. No eyes of Elves or Men ever saw him again in Middle- earth.”

    If you take the text from the source it implies that he swam until no one could see him anymore and then drowned because he was never seen from again. It implies that elves are capable of swimming and won't drown as soon as the depth is greater than their height. I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue because the point isn't that elves can't drown but that elves can swim.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I swear some of these posters do some random google searches for the topics being discussed like "lotr elf swim" and copy paste the first thing they see here without any regard or knowledge about what they're doing
    Lmao. Are you that eager to insult people that don't agree with your view point? Here is the text that implies he had the ability to swim far enough to go out of sight of watchers: “The mariners with their Elvish sight for a long time could see him battling with the waves, until the rising sun gleamed through the clouds and far off lit his bright hair like a spark of gold. No eyes of Elves or Men ever saw him again in Middle- earth.”
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #4665
    A dude that swam out of sight range and then drowned doesnt exactly give me confidence in their ability to cross oceans.

  6. #4666
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    “The mariners with their Elvish sight for a long time could see him battling with the waves, until the rising sun gleamed through the clouds and far off lit his bright hair like a spark of gold. No eyes of Elves or Men ever saw him again in Middle- earth.”

    If you take the text from the source it implies that he swam until no one could see him anymore and then drowned because he was never seen from again. It implies that elves are capable of swimming and won't drown as soon as the depth is greater than their height. I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue because the point isn't that elves can't drown but that elves can swim.
    The Elf drowns in the sea. I don't know how you can cherry pick the first half to support some inane scenario where Galadriel doing the same would make sense, while ignoring the fact that Elves are still prone to death by their environments and are unable to swim across the sea on their own.

    Sorry, but your example is self-defeating if you're trying to illustrate how well Elves can swim and bring up a story where one of the most physically fit Elves ever described ends up drowning in the open sea.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-13 at 03:45 PM.

  7. #4667
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    The Elf drowns in the sea.
    That was never in question. The only one cherry picking here is yourself so you can go off on a rant about the Galadriel scene again. The context of my post, and the discussion being had, was about the ability for elves to swim. A poster claimed that they couldn't and nothing in Tolkien's work indicated they could. The ability to swim is not just the ability to never drown. It is ignorant to even try and make that argument. The best swimmer in the real world can still drown. Does that mean no human can swim well? Lmao.

    Learn how to understand context:

    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    There is no reference of Tolkien elves knowing how to swim. An early draft of the Silmarillion featured mermaids teaching one half-elf to swim, while a pure elf failed to learn. Elves often sit, stand and walk near water, yet there is no reference of any elf ever swimming in thousands of pages of stories.

    TLDR: Tolkien elves can't swim.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #4668
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Hey, it could be worse.

    You could have had a couple of untrained magic users decimate the a huge army of Orcs with magic they were never taught or had the ability to use, die in the process, and then be magically revived because someone felt bad, utterly removing any stakes or logic from the show from that point on.

    /goes off to grumble about WoT..............
    Well that happened in the WoT finale. We're still 5 episodes away so....

  9. #4669
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well that happened in the WoT finale. We're still 5 episodes away so....
    Listen I want to believe it won't get that bad, let me live with that lie for a few weeks more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  10. #4670
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Following Tolkien lore/logic she would have to be roughly 4000-5000 years old, as she lived ~1400 years in the age of the trees (remember that in the year of the trees they tracked time different than later ages, at a scale of roughly 10 to 1), ~600 years in the 1st age, and then we have the 2nd age lasting ~3500 years.

    Considering we have Isildur alive, a man who lived ~200 years, and his and many others actions lead to the end of the 2nd age with the defeat of Sauron, we can roughly tell we are at the end of the 2nd age, putting her at least in the 4000 if not 5000 range.

    Now the show is doing whatever the fuck they want, so in theory she can be 100's of years old, cause they don't give a single fuck about lore. Galadriel SHOULD be wise/knowledge still at this point, as she is one of the eldest of the eldar, older than even high king Gil-Galad, but again Amazon is doing their own lore independent show so who knows.
    I fucked up there with not taking into account the Valarian years. The Rings of Power were forged in SA 1500 so according to that she should be somewhere between 2000 and 3500 solar years old. But Isildur was born over 1700 years after the forging of the rings, and yet he's already alive. Like you said, they don't give a fuck.

  11. #4671
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    I fucked up there with not taking into account the Valarian years. The Rings of Power were forged in SA 1500 so according to that she should be somewhere between 2000 and 3500 solar years old. But Isildur was born over 1700 years after the forging of the rings, and yet he's already alive. Like you said, they don't give a fuck.
    Then you have things like politician Elrond, who in a few short years I am supposed to believe becomes the 2nd hand man of Gil-Galad leading the forces of Elves and man against Sauron? Not to mention he shortly after the war marries Celebrian, who isn't even born yet (unless Galadriel just you know is an utter cunt and doesn't care about her child or husband).

    They also fucked up his story by saying he wasn't invited to the meeting because it was for nobles, like mother fucking he is a descendant of Finwe, the first high king of the Noldor. This also makes him related somewhat distantly with Galadriel. Like you want to say he wasn't invited because he was half-elven or because of what Feanor did, still bad but at least some logic exists, but they once again took the worst path.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  12. #4672
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    They also fucked up his story by saying he wasn't invited to the meeting because it was for nobles, like mother fucking he is a descendant of Finwe, the first high king of the Noldor.
    He wasn't invited to the council because he was not yet an elf-lord. So it wasn't about simply being a noble but being a "high enough" noble. Like excluding a prince in a meeting of Kings. Was it ever said that he was an elf-lord prior to founding Rivendell? As that happened after Eregion was destroyed which has yet to happen on the show.

    Even if Tolkien did already consider him an elf-lord it is a small enough change to better show case a rise to greater political status for a character arc. It really isn't a big deal at all.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #4673
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Cool, she still remains one of the eldest of the elves, and unless the plan is to make her COMPLETELY different at the end of the show compared to the beginning she should at least show SOME wisdom, but in the show she basically has none. By your logic Gil-Galad would be roughly 25-27 LY old, the mortal equivalent of 20 yet he has more wisdom and is high king.
    Not my logic, assuming you're following the same scjeme i am then it is Tolkien's logic. Also where are you getting that Gil-galad is wiser? Galadriel might be going about it wrong but she is aware of the need to seek out and confront evil.

    You guys ignore other elves exist and how they behave when you try to point out anything Galadriel related.
    Or maybe it makes more sense to compare Galadriel to her peers like Fëanor and his sons? Their upbringing and heritage is close to Galadriels and their behaviour caused massive problems for the world (or "they were brats" as you would probably say.)

    Not to mention I also used numbers from the lore, which are the years Tolkien described. My numbers are also still back by what is in the Silmarillion, at the start of the 2nd age Galadriel was 2000 years old roughly, so minimally she was one of the eldest Eldar. Stop making bullshit excuses for Amazons bad adaptation. They don't need your help they are already buying a ton of it.
    *shrug* and my numbers are backed by Tolkien's writing in Nature of Middle-earth. You're not saying I'm wrong you're saying that Tolkien's writings are wildly inconsistent with one another.

    Also saying "mortal equivalent" is such bullshit,
    Take it up with Tolkien not me, it's his phrase.

    Elves are considering mature enough to marry at 50 mortal years (Elven age of .5 years old using the numbers). They don't age/act like they need 100 more years to grow into an equivalent stage as humans.
    Citation very much needed for that as it is contradictory to pretty much everything in NoM-e.

    Not to mention she has already lived through the fall of the trees, the kinslaying, oath of Faenor, journey to middle earth and so much at this point to deny she would have obtained at LEAST SOME WISDOM, but the show displays none of that.
    First up it really isn't worth getting this mad about. Secondly it's not a lack of wisdom, it's poor judgement due to grief. And before you try saying that only brats are allowed emotions try to remember that Tolkien's Elves can literally die from being too sad.

    This isn't even touching the lack of her being married or a mother at this point.
    We don't know what her marital status is as that hasn't been shown.

  14. #4674
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    We don't know what her marital status is as that hasn't been shown.
    We don't know, yet we do know.

  15. #4675
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    ...Tolkien's writings are wildly inconsistent with one another.
    I think this is a good thing to remember when discussing the stuff that isn't a full story. There are some things they he kept revising or changing which could lead to the inconsistencies. I remember reading that one of the reasons why he originally wrote The Hobbit was because his kids kept contradicting him on the Oral version of the story at bed time.

    Also didn't he want to re-write the lore to make it so Arda was always round from the start but never actually released a revised edition to incorporate that?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #4676
    A story, that even 1kkk$ can't buy you talent and skillz

  17. #4677
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I think this is a good thing to remember when discussing the stuff that isn't a full story. There are some things they he kept revising or changing which could lead to the inconsistencies. I remember reading that one of the reasons why he originally wrote The Hobbit was because his kids kept contradicting him on the Oral version of the story at bed time.

    Also didn't he want to re-write the lore to make it so Arda was always round from the start but never actually released a revised edition to incorporate that?
    Yes, also the Sun and Moon were going to have always existed with no Lamps, one version of Galadriel's story has her meeting Celeborn (then Teleporno) in Aman, and he seemed to favour Orcs being bred from Men.

  18. #4678
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    So, there still people defending this shitshow still? i took a break from all this nonsense and check some shorts/reviews in youtube and oh my god, how they can make everything WORSE

    They done so dirt with the hobbits, how can you be so bad at writing that you have to constantly contradict yourself in it, one scene you have those fuckers say no one o out of the trail, that they help each other and its their nature, and the other you have then saying if someone have a slightest problem he is left behind, and make fun of those that died.

    Im pretty sure they though this would be funny, but its demented.


    the Last episode is prob one of the worst, we found out Not-sauron is actually not-aragorn, what a fucking rip-off from the movies.

    - The writers think orcs are fucking vampires, that burn in the sun, except, when they don't, tons of scenes with arms and legs exposed
    - The orcs put the elf fuckers to work on the day, instead of night, because its how they get that cool shot in the begining.
    - the eves start a bitch ass fight over a fucking tree, when they are planning to escape, cause killing that tree is way too far, did they played night elves here in wow or something?
    - Galadriel being insufferable and the worst ever
    - not-Aragorn stealing shit in front of the queen and everyone else and no one pay attention
    -people notice how galadriel is an elf with the hair covering the ears, later when she have her ears exposed, no one notice

    and we can keep going on and on, and i genuinely don't know how you can pretend this is not pure garbage.

    Oh, and, we did notice, the orcs? all white, the "evil southlanders who sided with Morgoth?" wink wink

  19. #4679
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Oh, and, we did notice, the orcs? all white, the "evil southlanders who sided with Morgoth?" wink wink
    I thought it was kind of on the nose in the trailer already.
    Error 404 - Signature not found

  20. #4680
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Did you watch the newest episode? Are you going to keep watching?
    Nope, just watched the first one, and it was a dumbster fire, i let other people took the bullet for me now and say what happens, and, some short scenes on social media

    But, im going to watch friday with like 6 friends at the bar so we will discuss it, pretty much like we put bad movies on to laugh or asses off, like we did with the batman with nipples

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