1. #4701
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    But ... it is? Just look at the Balrog and the Felbeasts. It's clearly meant to be part of the same continuity from the looks of the first three episodes, and actually quite better done than these weird "Shadow of Mordor" games that actually had bad lore (although no one cared because it looked cool, was "manly" and didn't have black people in it lol).
    Actually people did voice complaints about some of the liberties they made.
    Difference is that those games never came out to brag about how faithful they would be... Most already expected it to deviate. Then we also have the fact that those games were fucking good. Amazing even, and people tend to like things that are good. Hence why people dislike RoP.

    The game even made new characters. Which is also a good way to make you able to have more freedom in how you write them.

  2. #4702
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    But ... it is? Just look at the Balrog and the Felbeasts. It's clearly meant to be part of the same continuity from the looks of the first three episodes, and actually quite better done than these weird "Shadow of Mordor" games that actually had bad lore (although no one cared because it looked cool, was "manly" and didn't have black people in it lol).
    People did complain about Shadows of Mordor/War content a lot, but you probably didn't notice it because you were complaining about the absence of your precious minority representation.

    As for it being in the same continuity, the simple fact that the elves look like that in this show is proof that they aren't. Unless elves realized what good taste is only between the Second and Third age.

  3. #4703
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Or he ends up being the King of the Dead. In the movies he had vultures on his crown, and Halbrands symbol is .... surprise surprise ... a vulture.
    Yeah, but we're almost 2.000 years away from the King of the Dead being damned. The Rings were forged ~1500 in the second age, while the War of the Last Alliance took place 3429-41. Which would make him over 2000 years old at the time he was cursed, outliving Numernoreans by roughly 1600 years. I since Isildur is in this story now as well, even though he was born 1700 years after the rings were made, obviously, the show doesn't give a shit.

  4. #4704
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Actually people did voice complaints about some of the liberties they made.
    Difference is that those games never came out to brag about how faithful they would be... Most already expected it to deviate. Then we also have the fact that those games were fucking good. Amazing even, and people tend to like things that are good. Hence why people dislike RoP.

    The game even made new characters. Which is also a good way to make you able to have more freedom in how you write them.
    I'm not sure if that poster even played the game or is just repeating the same buzzwords to be a contrarian, because Shadows of War literally had an entire expansion about a protagonist of colour, yet that poster randomly claimed Shadows of War didn't have representation:


  5. #4705
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I'm not sure if that poster even played the game or is just repeating the same buzzwords to be a contrarian, because Shadows of War literally had an entire expansion about a protagonist of colour:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foFY2tZWVDw&t
    You already know, because as you can read from the statement, the reason why people like shadow of war is because it's about a white guy and have no black people in it.
    Nothing about if the piece of media is good or can stand on it's own. They just see "This game is considered good, it must be because of race".
    It's weird to me how people can see things through this narrow lense. Wait, it being narrow explains a lot.

  6. #4706
    I've read all LOTR books, loved em.

    Started watching this show, and its OK. Nothing special, its ok enough. its missing that extra ingredients to make it great. Maybe that will happen as the show goes on. As for now, it feels rather.. simple. On the surface its great, but theres nothing to it.. A show without a soul maybe? I dont know, im missing the words to describe it.

    GoT had it from the first episode. But then again, GoT went down the shitter.

  7. #4707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Yeah, but we're almost 2.000 years away from the King of the Dead being damned. The Rings were forged ~1500 in the second age, while the War of the Last Alliance took place 3429-41. Which would make him over 2000 years old at the time he was cursed, outliving Numernoreans by roughly 1600 years. I since Isildur is in this story now as well, even though he was born 1700 years after the rings were made, obviously, the show doesn't give a shit.
    The show uses a condensed timeline though so you can't really go with the dates from the books. PJ's trilogy also did the same btw, they literally cut off like 50 years from the first book or so where Frodo just chills in the shire.

  8. #4708
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So can you point me to the book(s) that have the entire story explicitly written? The entire reason why Amazon can invent characters and stories is because Tolkien didn't write about the Second Age in depth. I highly doubt you'd be praising a encyclopedia show that just did random scenes of the different Tolkien entries lol. The "gaps" as you call the is not simply not getting into finer detail. There is no need to keep exaggerating to try and prove your point.
    Learn how to read. I explicitly said he did not write things at the level of individual novels, but that doesn't mean that the didn't give an overview of the events in the second age. And Amazon is going against almost everything he wrote in every way. So this isn't an issue of lacking a novel, because the stuff they are making up doesn't make any sense even in its own made up universe.

    This different story they are telling has nothing to do with Tolkien and whether he wrote multiple novels or not about the second age. It is a different story because they didn't want to actually stick within the outlines of the 2nd age based on what Tolkien actually wrote. So it is a falsehood to claim they made these changes due to lack of source material.

    And none of that has anything to do with this nonsense mystery box story telling that is silly and stupid because even with these changes the mystery is only how far they are ultimately going to deviate with Tolkien. And at that point the justification for that mystery ceases to exist because whatever the result, it has no bearing on Tolkien and what he wrote in LOTR because it is not canon.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-12 at 01:45 PM.

  9. #4709
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    The show uses a condensed timeline though so you can't really go with the dates from the books. PJ's trilogy also did the same btw, they literally cut off like 50 years from the first book or so where Frodo just chills in the shire.
    'Someone else stole from the Bank as well, officer, so you can't really charge me for it, see?' is a pretty poor excuse in defense of a product that claims to stick to the source. Also, equating skipping over 50 years where nothing happens to several hundred years that include the forging of the rings and the war of Sauron and the Elves feels rather dishonest, don't you think?

    Shame the timeline isn't the only thing the show condensed. If they hadn't condensed the time they took for prop making, maybe the elves could have armor that doesn't look like it is made from recycled tin cans.

  10. #4710
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I'm not sure if that poster even played the game or is just repeating the same buzzwords to be a contrarian, because Shadows of War literally had an entire expansion about a protagonist of colour, yet that poster randomly claimed Shadows of War didn't have representation:

    And? Doesn't change the fact that people mostly complain about the series because it has a black dwarf and elf in it. And indeed, I didn't even know this DLC existed, also I tend to not follow incels on youtube so I wouldn't know if people complained about that either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyways, can we go back discussing the actual show now? For the Halbrand = King of the Dead theory, here is his symbol they used in the last episode:



    And here is the crown they used in the PJ movies, featuring the vultures:



    The other possible theories are Halbrand=Sauron or Halbrand=Witchking, both would be a bit of a bummer compared to the KotD though imo.

  11. #4711
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    And? Doesn't change the fact that people mostly complain about the series because it has a black dwarf and elf in it. And indeed, I didn't even know this DLC existed, also I tend to not follow incels on youtube so I wouldn't know if people complained about that either.
    Well, then, maybe you should put in an effort for a change. But that conflicts with your world view, doesn't it?

    People complain about the series because it looks cheap, isn't faithful to the source material, has poor dialogue, invents conflict and drama where none has any place to be, but you all boil it down to bigotry and racism, because it's easy and convenient, and because putting an inclusive show on a pedestal makes you feel good, because you showed the bigots. You're exactly the same as the morons that voted for Trump and the like, crying socialist wolf at every corner.

    You're dishonest and pretentious. "I don't tend to follow incels so I don't know what they complain about." Well, then maybe don't make a condescending post about
    what people complained about' if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and haven't followed the discussion? You know, like a reasonable smart person, and not like some loudmouthed internet troll?

  12. #4712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    And? Doesn't change the fact that people mostly complain about the series because it has a black dwarf and elf in it. And indeed, I didn't even know this DLC existed, also I tend to not follow incels on youtube so I wouldn't know if people complained about that either.
    Do they? I complain because the acting is meh, and the script is not really inspiring. Maybe you are just looking for the feedback that backs up your agenda that everyone is a racist and ignoring the majority of complaints, which is that the show is not all it’s hyped to be?

    Or am I a racist because I think the dialogue and general story so far leaves a lot to be desired

  13. #4713
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Hardly an excuse. House of the Dragon looks much better, has better dialogue, superior acting (and actors), costumes etc. while costing a fraction of Rings of Power.
    House of the Dragon dragon riding cgi\vfx close-ups on the riders mid flight were probably the worst\cheapest cgi shots i've seen, on par with Sharknado or the likes.

    So i don't get how you can say this.

  14. #4714
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    And? Doesn't change the fact that people mostly complain about the series because it has a black dwarf and elf in it. And indeed, I didn't even know this DLC existed, also I tend to not follow incels on youtube so I wouldn't know if people complained about that either.
    It's a good thing then that literally the main trailer shows a person of colour at the minute 1:30:




    Just admit that you don't know anything about this game.

    By the way, I know you are trying to use as many buzzwords as possible to pretend you have a point to make, but what does "Incel" has to do with any of this? Incel is used when referring to the hate against women, we're not talking about this. It's another subject entirely.

  15. #4715
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    The other possible theories are Halbrand=Sauron or Halbrand=Witchking, both would be a bit of a bummer compared to the KotD though imo.
    Neither have any business being there, as it's several hundred years too early for them to be born. Seeing how the writers don't give a shit, might well be one of them, but since we don't care about Tolkien's actual continuity, who cares who they turn out to be, or not to be?

    Fuck it. Let the guy in the meteor be Gandalf. Who cares that he's 3000 years early, and supposed to arrive by boat? Condensed timeline and creative liberty. Wasn't that a cool fireball?

  16. #4716
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Well, then, maybe you should put in an effort for a change. But that conflicts with your world view, doesn't it?

    People complain about the series because it looks cheap, isn't faithful to the source material, has poor dialogue, invents conflict and drama where none has any place to be, but you all boil it down to bigotry and racism, because it's easy and convenient, and because putting an inclusive show on a pedestal makes you feel good, because you showed the bigots. You're exactly the same as the morons that voted for Trump and the like, crying socialist wolf at every corner.

    You're dishonest and pretentious. "I don't tend to follow incels so I don't know what they complain about." Well, then maybe don't make a condescending post about
    what people complained about' if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and haven't followed the discussion? You know, like a reasonable smart person, and not like some loudmouthed internet troll?
    It's always the same isn't...

    Fuck me, this behavior is so weird.
    Focus on the things you don't want to focus on then complain the focus is on thing you focus on... It's even worse when they actively shift the focus to thing they then complain the focus is on.

  17. #4717
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Neither have any business being there, as it's several hundred years too early for them to be born. Seeing how the writers don't give a shit, might well be one of them, but since we don't care about Tolkien's actual continuity, who cares who they turn out to be, or not to be?
    But this thread is not about "tolkien's actual continuity", it's about the show. And we already know that the last season will show the Last Alliance.

  18. #4718
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    But this thread is not about "tolkien's actual continuity", it's about the show. And we already know that the last season will show the Last Alliance.
    If they wanted to make a show that doesn't care about the source material, why not create their own then? Oh, yeah, because they couldn't create an interesting universe and characters to save their lives. Because they need brand recognition to get people excited. That's why they create Red Herrings about tie-ins to other famous events and characters in the movies at literally every corner of the show.

    Heck, at this point I'd take a reimagining of the actual LotR story as a space opera over this series. Because this schizophrenic reinterpretation of Tolkien's work is just painful to watch. If they wanted to make an original story around existing characters, fine. Do that. But with a series centered around the forging around the Rings of power, one of the decisive points in the history of Tolkiens work, and the series named 'the Rings of Power', you know, I'd expect them to actually use what little is know about that period in Middle-Earths history and build around that, not changing events and characters by 2000 years because they need as many recognizable names and events as possible to draw people in.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2022-09-12 at 02:12 PM.

  19. #4719
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    Fuck it. Let the guy in the meteor be Gandalf. Who cares that he's 3000 years early, and supposed to arrive by boat? Condensed timeline and creative liberty. Wasn't that a cool fireball?
    I actually hope he turns out the be a blue wizard - Tolkien actually did write a version where they did arrive in the 2nd age around the time of the forging of the rings, so that could work. Wouldn't want it to be Gandalf, or Saruman though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    If they wanted to make a show that doesn't care about the source material, why not create their own then? Oh, yeah, because they couldn't create an interesting universe and characters to save their lives. Because they need brand recognition to get people excited. That's why they create Red Herrings about tie-ins to other famous events and characters in the movies at literally every corner of the show
    Because it's an adaption? And from the first three episodes it looks like they do care a lot about the source material, judging by their many Silmarillion easter eggs so far.

  20. #4720
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Because it's an adaption? And from the first three episodes it looks like they do care a lot about the source material, judging by their many Silmarillion easter eggs so far.
    Really? With the bullying elven kids and Galadriel being completely out of place, you're telling me they care about the source material? With Elendil and Isildur being almost 2000 years too early? Really? You're valuing easter eggs over actual deviations from the source material? Really?

    You need to sort out your priorities, dude. Calling this show and adaptation is making incredibly liberal use of the term. Loosely based on, maybe.

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