1. #4721
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Oh man, get ready for the cringiest slow-mo horse-riding scene ever
    You all complained that this woman never smiled.. now you know why :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Killing literature? Are they burning any copy’s of the books they can find and shooting modern day authors or something?
    I mean, not burned, but America is trying to ban it because, something, something, religion,. something :P

    Maybe thats why they are afraid, they afraid they'll be no books and Rings of Power is the only source material they'll have... lol.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-14 at 03:18 PM.
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  2. #4722
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I mean, not burned, but America is trying to ban it because, something, something, religion,. something :P

    Maybe thats why they are afraid, they afraid they'll be no books and Rings of Power is the only source material they'll have... lol.
    Huh ya I totally forgot that was an ongoing thing in America.

    And Who knows Mabye if you dig deep enough you can find Amazon funding them to corner the market!
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #4723
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Even if she was strong enough to swim against being pulled down by a big chunk of wood/metal/rope, it wouldn't much matter if she was fucking unconscious. Which...you know:
    Know what's even better about people who are unconscious under water?

    They instantly drown because they're incapable of holding their breath. Nice touch, that. Having her swim to the surface herself without needing to be resuscitated after drowning for at least 10 seconds and undoubtedly actively taking on water into her lungs.

  4. #4724
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    i'm quite frankly astonished nobody has brought up the emergency interview these amateurs had to do recently in order to try and justify their cultural appropriation and absolutely disgusting stereotyping with their writing, it's actually pretty funny seeing them come out and start to backtrack on the name calling and ist/phobe labelling they have been throwing around lately in an utterly embarrassing attempt to try and avoid the repercussions of their actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Know what's even better about people who are unconscious under water?

    They instantly drown because they're incapable of holding their breath. Nice touch, that. Having her swim to the surface herself without needing to be resuscitated after drowning for at least 10 seconds and undoubtedly actively taking on water into her lungs.
    you forgot that warrior goddess galadriel who don't need no man is immune to such trivialities such as this, she not only has unbreakable plot armour the likes of which has not been seen before, even in the most egregious Anime productions, but she also has the power of feminism on her side, and that is a weapon unlike any other.

  5. #4725
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i'm quite frankly astonished nobody has brought up the emergency interview these amateurs had to do recently in order to try and justify their cultural appropriation and absolutely disgusting stereotyping with their writing, it's actually pretty funny seeing them come out and start to backtrack on the name calling and ist/phobe labelling they have been throwing around lately in an utterly embarrassing attempt to try and avoid the repercussions of their actions.
    Don’t tend to follow post release media, What cultural appropriation and stereotyping are they justifying? Nothing comes to mind for the first 3 episodes.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #4726
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i'm quite frankly astonished nobody has brought up the emergency interview these amateurs had to do recently in order to try and justify their cultural appropriation and absolutely disgusting stereotyping with their writing, it's actually pretty funny seeing them come out and start to backtrack on the name calling and ist/phobe labelling they have been throwing around lately in an utterly embarrassing attempt to try and avoid the repercussions of their actions.

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    you forgot that warrior goddess galadriel who don't need no man is immune to such trivialities such as this, she not only has unbreakable plot armour the likes of which has not been seen before, even in the most egregious Anime productions, but she also has the power of feminism on her side, and that is a weapon unlike any other.
    Remember when the man saved Galadriel from drowning? You're such a troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Don’t tend to follow post release media, What cultural appropriation and stereotyping are they justifying? Nothing comes to mind for the first 3 episodes.
    He means he's triggered by black people in stuff. Pretty simple. He's been complaining about it for hundreds of pages.

  7. #4727
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    He means he's triggered by black people in stuff. Pretty simple. He's been complaining about it for hundreds of pages.
    I’d assume if they are pointing towards an interview where they talk about cultural appropriation and stereotyping said interview would give some actual examples though.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #4728
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Don’t tend to follow post release media, What cultural appropriation and stereotyping are they justifying? Nothing comes to mind for the first 3 episodes.
    it was an interview with them trying to justify why they made the hobbits-not hobbits into dirty irish people, and why they made all the dwarves have a stereotypical scots accent, they were called out by the Irish Post newspaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    Remember when the man saved Galadriel from drowning? You're such a troll.

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    He means he's triggered by black people in stuff. Pretty simple. He's been complaining about it for hundreds of pages.
    oh the irony of your moronic assumption is hilarious, please do it more, you gave me a good laugh which i needed today as i'm forced to ingest 4 different types of pain medication to manage one of my health problems, you making a complete fucking muppet out of yourself has made my day, keep it up, i'm sure it makes you look really smart /s.

  9. #4729
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    They instantly drown because they're incapable of holding their breath. Nice touch, that. Having her swim to the surface herself without needing to be resuscitated after drowning for at least 10 seconds and undoubtedly actively taking on water into her lungs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex

    It isn't entirely true that they will instantly drown as the body has reflexes that will prevent breathing for a time. It is true though that the body reaches a point where it will attempt to breath. An Elf of course isn't Human or even from the real world and Tolkien never went this in-depth into their abilities so it is silly to even bring this into a discussion.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #4730
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    it was an interview with them trying to justify why they made the hobbits-not hobbits into dirty irish people, and why they made all the dwarves have a stereotypical scots accent, they were called out by the Irish Post newspaper.
    Hmm can’t say I know enough about the Irish to know what to look for in the case of the hobbits.

    The Scottish accent bit seems a bit odd though, dwarfs are obviously scot bashed but complaining just about the accent when they otherwise didn’t really play into actual Scottish stereotypes is weird to me.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-09-14 at 04:31 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #4731
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I’d assume if they are pointing towards an interview where they talk about cultural appropriation and stereotyping said interview would give some actual examples though.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/t...bn-well-spent/

    I'm guessing it is this article that reads more like an op-ed then an actually controversy. In another article with one of the Harfoot actors he suggested it was meant to invoke a sense of community and used his own life experiences to put it into context. Though I can certainly understand why it may be a touchy subject but I'm not sure it crosses into racist or stereotype.

    When I spoke to Sir Lenworth Henry, who plays a harfoot and has no say in the accents either way, he suggested that the Irish inflection is meant to convey a community feel, and that the creative team wanted an “identifiably celtic-rooted dialect” for the harfoots. The harfoots, according to Tolkien lore, were allies of the dwarves, who in the original trilogy and this series have Scottish accents, so perhaps that celtic link informed the decision. In Henry’s estimation, it’s a vibe thing: “[The harfoots] are a nomadic, very earthy, hard-handed, hard-working people,” Henry said. “My dad came to this country and worked with Irish people, and they worked with a lot of Jamaicans and there was a real sense of we're all in this together. And I think [that's the case] with the harfoots.” https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/cultur...-irish-accents
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #4732
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    oh the irony of your moronic assumption is hilarious, please do it more, you gave me a good laugh which i needed today as i'm forced to ingest 4 different types of pain medication to manage one of my health problems, you making a complete fucking muppet out of yourself has made my day, keep it up, i'm sure it makes you look really smart /s.
    Now it makes sense. Sorry to hear about your health problems. I am more sorry that you exist to be a miserable troll on this board. Sad.

  13. #4733
    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/t...e-showrunners/

    it's this one, though it's behind a paywall.
    Error 404 - Signature not found

  14. #4734
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The Tolkien multiverse ship kinda already sailed in 1978 with the animated movies which broke the canon and then again with the Jackson movies and again with shadow of Mordor.

    ROP is the 5th different continuity at this point with all Of them being under Tolkien's name/franchise even though he didn’t write them.
    Nothing so far has attempted to tell the story of the Second Age. So technically this is the first attempt to do anything with it. Not to mention they don't have the rights to touch anything before or after. And it is because of the way they condensed the story of the 2nd age and changed the events that this becomes the first of any adaptation to set itself up as a completely and fully alternate universe from what Tolkien wrote. The animated version and movies were much closer to the actual story and not trying to wholesale replace it with something different, while the games were focused on smaller time periods where they did tell wholly original stories but at a smaller scale which had little impact on anything else.

  15. #4735
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/t...e-showrunners/

    it's this one, though it's behind a paywall.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20220913...e-showrunners/

    The wayback machine can get past pay walls. This really does feel like manufactured outrage given that the objection is because Harfoots are equated to "filthy rags" and the accent is not used with characters of finer dress. It definitely doesn't feel like the show runners are back tracking or doing anything crazy to respond as the OP of this tangent implied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    And it is because of the way they condensed the story of the 2nd age and changed the events that this becomes the first of any adaptation to set itself up as a completely and fully alternate universe from what Tolkien wrote.
    The Jackson film had changes and some small time skips. The moment any change is made from Tolkien canon it creates a fully alternate universe.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #4736
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex

    It isn't entirely true that they will instantly drown as the body has reflexes that will prevent breathing for a time. It is true though that the body reaches a point where it will attempt to breath. An Elf of course isn't Human or even from the real world and Tolkien never went this in-depth into their abilities so it is silly to even bring this into a discussion.
    Did you even read what this article talks about? It doesn't stop breathing. It alters blood flow, favoring heart and head. In addition, it's mild or non-existent in adults.

    "It's pointless to bring up because it's entirely possible for elves to handwave that they don't breathe when unconscious!" Garbage argument. We know they function just like literally every other mammal as far as their biological functions of life, from breathing, to eating, to waste creation. Here's a question: is it better as a writer to look for loopholes to things that were previously assumed or is it better to stick to realism?

    I certainly know what *I* consider better writing.

  17. #4737
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    Nothing so far has attempted to tell the story of the Second Age. So technically this is the first attempt to do anything with it. Not to mention they don't have the rights to touch anything before or after. And it is because of the way they condensed the story of the 2nd age and changed the events that this becomes the first of any adaptation to set itself up as a completely and fully alternate universe from what Tolkien wrote. The animated version and movies were much closer to the actual story and not trying to wholesale replace it with something different, while the games were focused on smaller time periods where they did tell wholly original stories but at a smaller scale which had little impact on anything else.
    All of the adaptations are a completely and fully alternate universe, there are no goblins singing about whips or goblin town in Tolkien’s universe, nor are there elephant surfing elf's or spiders turning into sexy lady’s. all of these things are in there own little universes that have no connection to each and no connection to Tolkien’s actual canon.

    The differences might be in earlier period and telling a different story like shadow of Mordor did but that doesn’t actually have any barring on all of the adaptations being different universes that diverge in a ton of little and big ways from the actual canon.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-09-14 at 05:19 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #4738
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The Jackson film had changes and some small time skips. The moment any change is made from Tolkien canon it creates a fully alternate universe.
    The Jackson Film did not make a completely different story with completely different character arcs and events. In doing this for ROP Amazon has set the standard that anybody with rights to Tolkien can do almost whatever they want and thus why I mentioned multiverse. And the core of this is that the Tolkien Estate is now allowing productions that are going so vastly away from the source material whereas before small changes were generally frowned upon but of course allowed. Technically this is a story only inspired by Tolkien and literally not part of the Tolkien canon at all which is what makes it part of a multiverse of 'inspired' Tolkien variants that are not canon at all.

  19. #4739
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    The Jackson Film did not make a completely different story with completely different character arcs and events. In doing this for ROP Amazon has set the standard that anybody with rights to Tolkien can do almost whatever they want and thus why I mentioned multiverse. And the core of this is that the Tolkien Estate is now allowing productions that are going so vastly away from the source material whereas before small changes were generally frowned upon but of course allowed. Technically this is a story only inspired by Tolkien and literally not part of the Tolkien canon at all which is what makes it part of a multiverse of 'inspired' Tolkien variants that are not canon at all.
    The Jackson films don't have to make a 'completely different story' to be considered their own universe and considered to be different from the books. Just like Marvel can make a new reboot of any of the Fox or Sony characters and stories while keeping some things similar, but we know they're not the same. Like even the upcoming Daredevil series will not be based on the Netflix Daredevil character, even though it's the same actor portraying the role.

    All adaptations are their own self-contained universes. The Jackson films took many different big and small changes.

    Just as RoP is merely inspired by Tolkien and not part of the canon, so are the Jackson films, which includes the Hobbit movies which many people would like to forget about when regarding 'Jackson films'.

    And to be fair, the Tolkien Estate had always been strict about what can or can not be deviated from, but they're still liscencing these deals for money and is why we have so many different LOTR media that isn't connected to each other. I mean just taking a look at all the disconnected Video game adaptations or the Games Workshop board games or whatever material elaborates on the origins and depictions of the Nazgul shows that there's plenty of mish-mashed 'Extended Universe' material out there that isn't part of the main canon. RoP is just the latest in a line of 'fan fiction' creations with a liscence for distribution.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-14 at 05:30 PM.

  20. #4740
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    All of the adaptations are a completely and fully alternate universe, there are no goblins singing about whips or goblin town in Tolkien’s universe, nor are there elephant surfing elf's or spiders turning into sexy lady’s. all of these things are in there own little universes that have no connection to each and no connection to Tolkien’s actual canon.

    The differences might be in earlier period and telling a different story like shadow of Mordor did but that doesn’t actually have any barring on all of the adaptations being different universes that diverge in a ton of little and big ways from the actual canon.
    I agree that the result would be a sort of multiverse but regardless of whether that is what it winds up being, that still does not mean that is what he wanted. How we got here is due to his death and the details of whatever rights studios are given and how they are exercised. Marvel making alternate versions of characters from different universes is fine because they own those characters and can do whatever they want. Tolkien intended his stories to be fixed in time and space as one single set of events and occurrences, which means not a multiverse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    The Jackson films don't have to make a 'completely different story' to be considered their own universe and considered to be different from the books. Just like Marvel can make a new reboot of any of the Fox or Sony characters and stories while keeping some things similar, but we know they're not the same. Like even the upcoming Daredevil series will not be based on the Netflix Daredevil character, even though it's the same actor portraying the role.

    All adaptations are their own self-contained universes. The Jackson films took many different big and small changes.

    Just as RoP is merely inspired by Tolkien and not part of the canon, so are the Jackson films, which includes the Hobbit movies which many people would like to forget about when regarding 'Jackson films'.
    Yes, in the sense that any variation is a different continuity that is true, but when we speak of Marvel or DC, multiverses are a part of the overall structure that these stories exist in and characters from different multiverses can even interact with each other. Meaning it was something they developed intentionally as a way to keep characters popular and try new things. That is not what Tolkien envisioned for Lord of the Rings.

    So I agree that eventually as time goes on there will be multiple versions of these stories created in film and so forth. And that only is going to happen because of money, not because that is what Tolkien wanted or intended. The issue is how different in scope and character these productions wind up being from the source material. Jackson openly stated he wanted to stick as close to Tolkien as possible. Amazon has stated right up front that they were making up their own story only loosely based on what Tolkien wrote. And that is the difference.

    At the end of the day, if the Tolkien Estate were smart, they would have approached a studio to make an 'official' adaptation of the 2nd age with full rights to the Simarillion and other works that is considered as canon. Because the events of the ages prior to the 3rd age are mostly only written about in a summary format with additional notes and letters here and there. That would be the easiest way to guarantee some kind of consistency in terms of the overall narrative and characters. But they didn't, so it is what it is.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-14 at 05:37 PM.

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