Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The show back me up, by showing she is stronger, more resistant than other elves

elves are stronger and resistant than humans

And yet, a piece of wood smoke the gal into oblivion, for sure man, its just me making stuff up

So please give some time stamps of elves just struggling off blows to the back of the head.

Because just being can be strong and resistant doesn't mean you can't be knocked out or killed from blows to the back of the head.

there's a reason why they aren't allowed in boxing even though it's all about being strong and resistant.

[Syegfryed]

So please give some time stamps of elves just struggling off blows to the back of the head.

If your response is "show me bits that show elves being stronger to hits in the head" you are more desperate than you look

Because just being can be strong and resistant doesn't mean you can't be knocked out or killed from blows to the back of the head.

there's a reason why they aren't allowed in boxing even though it's all about being strong and resistant.

Yeah, but to boxers actually have more strength to deliver a strong blow, normal people could not.

With her, was a fucking piece of wood, again, desperate trying to salvage one bs event, like many others, like the troll fight, her jumping into water like a moron, she sinking and many others

Like, as an example, shall we go to the scene where the elves, demented, put all the chains in one place, to hit it like kids, in different places, in the hopes to destroy it, when all of then could focus in one at the time? I bet this scene totally made sense and it was not garbage at all right?

Or you know, the Orc making a fuss in the house, destroying the stairs and throwing away the table, showing how strong he was, but then he got trapped with a weapon on a stair....when he could have just destroyed....just to be hanged by a kid.... then, he - who was going rly fast - start going slowly to the kid, to give enough time for his mother to kill it...and he didn't aw it...until it was too late...

But im sure you guys will find all the reasons to say how this wasn't bad at all and make sense, like coming up with something like "how can you proof orcs do have peripheral vision??!?! we dont know!

[Biomega]

"don't write bullshit statements about this bullshit show" give me a fucking break

It seems so easy, yet you seem to struggle so much with it.

Criticize the show, by all means. It's pretty bad. It deserves criticism, and then some.

But do it RIGHT. Don't use bad writing in the show as an excuse for bad writing from yourself. That's not helping the discussion along.

[Syegfryed]

It seems so easy, yet you seem to struggle so much with it.

Criticize the show, by all means. It's pretty bad. It deserves criticism, and then some.

But do it RIGHT. Don't use bad writing in the show as an excuse for bad writing from yourself. That's not helping the discussion along.

"bad writing from yourself", no it was obviously a mockery to the show and her demented behaviour, you took it as literal and tried to make a big deal out of it

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If your response is "show me bits that show elves being stronger to hits in the head" you are more desperate than you look

If you think "post something that supports your point" is desperate its quite telling.

yeah, but to boxers actually have more strength to deliver a strong blow, normal people could not.

Do you think your average boxer is putting out more force then a sea storm?

Here's a picture to for comparison, If were being generous on the low end what we see is between 34-40 knots, if we want to go high its 56-63 knots. so at the low end the speed is higher then the world's fastest punch, It might not have as much weight behind it as a top end boxer but it's still going to hit with more force then any person is meant to take to the back of the head.

[Xath]

Hasn't this only happened like twice with LoTR and wheel of time? While we have also had, the Witcher, sandman, tons of marvel movies, Game of thrones/HoD, and likely a few more.

The idea that they are targeting franchises with dead author's seems like a load of nonsense.

The majority of marvel properties were created by people who are either dead or no longer with the company they are also much closer to accuracy than anything else on the list. Witcher is tricky because there are two different versions the game that most people are familiar with and the book. As for Sandman that's Gaiman's choice just like it's the choice of whether or not to watch it. LoTR and Wheel of Time are huge investments supposedly both on par with or higher than Game of Thrones they have also had sweeping changes that were only allowed because the authors were dead. They are also the only amazon properties on your list.

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It was refreshing that they didn't hyper-focus on how they chose to have racial inclusion or women in main roles in this show. I think it worked decently.

I got irked by the Brandyfoot sisters mother being dark skinned while they weren't, but looking into it apparently she is their stepmother. I must've missed where they mention that, but that explanation works for me.

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It's a streaming show. Even the best Disney streaming shows don'y hold a candle to movie production quality.

You mean besides the first significant stuff pushed about the show being the "super fan" trailer that they had to pull down because they were rightfully getting blasted?

[Chromeshellking]

So LOTR is not an iconic masterpiece of work built around the battle of evil vs good (which KIND of include one or more villains)?
And if you say yes which you should, would you argue Morgoth that 95% of the readers or viewers of movies are unaware of is, for good reasons, iconic? What are you arguing for exactly, that a villain has to have a cape, be in some Marvel movie made for 7y olds and up and fly into meteors and stuff or?

Plot device my ass.

That persons take is so horrid I don't know how to take that. What would Middle Earth be without Sauron or Melkor aka Morgoth? Thats like having harry potter but without harry potter and instead focusing on Dudley.

I wouldn't have even addressed their point.

[Xath]

Can we get a thread for people who actually want to discuss the show without a bunch of people getting offended about their head canon?

This show is pure head canon seeing as there are numerous sweeping changes to set in stone things such as the numenorean line of succession.

[Syegfryed]

If you think "post something that supports your point" is desperate its quite telling.

Just imagined i post the episode here, done.

Do you think your average boxer is putting out more force then a sea storm?

Sea storm? i just imagined it was the lightning bolt that struck the boat and one debris went to her head, but guess it was zeus himself that throw with so much strength that knock out the strongest of the elves.

Im not gonna even enter in the part here the lightning should have hit her or something in a higher place, but sure, everything makes sense and its fine

[Xath]

It's almost as if it's an adaptation... and they have to move things around to fit a story spanning a millennia.

Give it a rest, if it bothers you so much, stop watching it, holy hell.

Take it for what it is, a tv show adaptation.

It's trash it's not an adaptation it's loosely inspired bad fanfiction

[InfiniteCharger]

He sold the exclusive rights to his work prior to his death. That sale didn't include provisions that it has to adhere to a strict adaption of his work so yes any future work that has the rights can do whatever they want with that work. It is why we have had dozens of things that have changed his work and created their own things inside that fictional world. Yet it is only a problem now when you don't like something.

It matters if the Jackson work was 100% faithful or not because it was celebrated by a lot of fans yet it has the same qualities that you say should be looked down upon by everyone because Tolkien didn't want "multiverses". Isn't it strange how things are only a problem when it comes to Rings of Power but magically are not when applied to other works?

As it stands the rights to the film the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit have nothing to do with Amazon, who only purchased the rights to the appendices.
This series does not have the rights to the Simarillion and anything else they would need to even do an adaption of the 2nd age properly. So what is the point? Just to do 'something' just to say it is somewhat remotely in a very flimsy way related to Tolkien? That doesn't even make sense.

Through Tolkien Enterprises, now Middle-earth Enterprises, Saul Zaentz owned the worldwide film, stage, and merchandise rights to J. R. R. Tolkien's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.[15] It also includes "matching rights" should Tolkien's estate film The Silmarillion or The Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth.[16] What it did not include was the rights for televisions shows (for any show longer than eight episodes).[16]

In 1976, Zaentz acquired certain rights as regards The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit from United Artists, who had in turn purchased them directly from Tolkien eight years prior. In 1978, Zaentz produced an animated version of The Lord of the Rings, written chiefly by Peter S. Beagle and directed by animator Ralph Bakshi.

Tolkien Enterprises granted an exclusive tabletop game license to company Iron Crown Enterprises in 1982, which was the largest such license in the industry up to that time.[17]

Eight years after his death, Zaentz Co. decided to sell The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings rights.[16]

On 18th August 2022, Embracer Group announced that it had entered into an agreement to purchase Middle-earth Enterprises from The Saul Zaentz Company. [18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Zaentz

Basically the only thing that technically Amazon has the rights to is a television series based on the appendices to LOTR. Thats it. Which is basically a very narrow loophole that allows them to use the name "Lord of the Rings" even though this series isn't canonical to Lord of the Rings and is only very loosely related to it in spirit because it is only based on the appendices So the argument you are making is that this narrow loophole justifies this shows existence because of Tolkien selling those rights long ago. Which technically isn't the case at all because these specific rights had to be purchased directly from the Tolkien estate not Saul Zaentz and it was the Tolkien Estate that was looking for a studio to make a television series based on these limited rights. So yes, in this case it is the Tolkien Estate that is looking to cash in on the legacy of Tolkien and not even Tolkien himself as he never sold any rights for television series in general. And in that case it is the Estate itself who is promoting this watered down version of Tolkien in order to make some money for themselves. And a lot of this goes back to the fact that it took so long to get a movie made years after Tolkien sold those rights originally.

Amazon, Netflix and HBO had been approached by the Tolkien estate, who had been shopping the project. It came with an upfront rights payment said to be in the $200 million-$250 million range, and I hear Amazon landed the rights by paying close to $250 million. That is just for the rights, before any costs for development, talent and production, in proposition whose finances industry observers called “insane.” It is a payment that is made sight unseen as there is no concept, and there are no creative auspices attached to the possible series. On top of that, the budget for a fantasy series of that magnitude is likely to be $100 million-$150 million a season.

Set in Middle Earth, the television adaptation will explore new storylines preceding Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring. I hear that there are some creative restrictions imposed by the rights holders on what can be done and what can’t be done in a LOTR TV series.

“We are delighted that Amazon, with its longstanding commitment to literature, is the home of the first-ever multi-season television series for The Lord of the Rings,” said Matt Galsor, a representative for the Tolkien Estate and Trust and HarperCollins. “Sharon and the team at Amazon Studios have exceptional ideas to bring to the screen previously unexplored stories based on J.R.R. Tolkien’s original writings.”

https://deadline.com/2017/11/amazon-...nt-1202207065/

So, like I said, this is more about money more than anything specifically that Tolkien wanted/did not want.

[Xath]

Rings of Power must be the biggest proof yet Ragebait campagns on YouTube and Facebook is solid gold for content creators.

They literally made a bunch of people pretend to be fans of Tolkien and defend Tolkiens "honor" and review bomb the shit out of it.

Hilarious.

Its no way near perfect. But it is quite beautiful and it will be a fun adaptation. I do think they would have gone of better with dropping the entire season, or maybe in 2 parts like they did stranger things. So far I love everything except Galadriel, feel like they made her a bit Gen Z-ish. Hopefully she will grow. Still decent.


Hopefully the show is successful to the point Tolkien Estate reconcider their tight grip on Silmarillion and the Lost tales rights.

A 1st age trilogy is the dream.

Nobody is review bombing it, it's just bad. People watch a few episodes and leave a bad review so others don't waste their time. Also Galadriel being described as being gen zish nutshells everything wrong with this trash.

[Syegfryed]

It's trash it's not an adaptation it's loosely inspired bad fanfiction

Its funny that one his points is how they have to move things to fit a millennia, and yet nothing happens in this fucking show in three hours

I understand you have eight episodes, but come on

[Xath]

Erm, no? Because he expressed a desire to create a mythos with gaps for others to fill it's okay to fill those gaps, and as much of that mythos was in flux it isn't bad to interpret it in other ways.



We're also not seeing the origin of that, not getting involved is already part of their ethos and it matches what little we do know of the ancestral Hobbits. An origin would be showing them before they started avoiding other peoples and the events that made them change.



No, that's the very clear impression you get if you read the whole letter instead of cherry-picking a few quotes from it.



It's a pretty common consensus that he was nowhere near perfecting the broader history of Arda. His notes show that vast swathes of what was released as the Silmarillion would have to be rewritten, not least because he wanted Arda to be round from the beginning with the Sun and Moon always existing.



Well it is so it is.

It's not. It's bad fanfiction that is largely ignoring established events without even talking about timelines.

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Not everyone follows whatever garbage amazon puts forth in some press conference or article, so just because they say that doesn't mean it isn't shocking to a bunch of people who are just watching the show and only paying attention that much.

Also, that's fucking weaksauce on their part. "We want people to have longevity with characters (and more so we probably don't want to have to constantly find new talent as their characters die and new ones come on-board)"

No. Fuck u. Game of thrones proved it was fine to have characters enter and drop like flies on a dime.



I don't really care what's inconvenient for the largest budget show ever made. They can find more humans to be more authentic, or they can just stick to telling a story within the confines of the timeframe that won't necessitate that type of enormous change. OR they can do what they did and catch shit about it as more people watch it without any context of what amazon already admitted they were bastardizing. Doesn't make all those people wrong for feeling like something was out of place compared to what they know.

It's not even like they have superstar actors to justify compressing the timeline. Just use more randos for other characters not like the casting is amazing as is.

[Triceron]

You mean besides the first significant stuff pushed about the show being the "super fan" trailer that they had to pull down because they were rightfully getting blasted?

Yes, besides that because that was just marketting and not the actual show. I'm not usually one who gets fussed over marketting, even the stuff people would consider 'significant'.

[Xath]

Yes, besides that because that was just marketting and not the actual show. I'm not usually one who gets fussed over marketting, even the stuff people would consider 'significant'.

The things that are prioritized in marketing usually give a good idea of what the showrunners deem most important. It's a giant neon warning sign if the first things you are hearing about is diversity and inclusion rather than an excited showrunner barely able to stop themselves from spilling details yeah it's a bad sign.

[Triceron]

The things that are prioritized in marketing usually give a good idea of what the showrunners deem most important. It's a giant neon warning sign if the first things you are hearing about is diversity and inclusion rather than an excited showrunner barely able to stop themselves from spilling details yeah it's a bad sign.

Who gives a fuck what a corporation prioritizes?

[s_bushido]

Nobody is review bombing it, it's just bad.

lol

Living in your own alternate reality even more fantastical than Middle Earth.

You can think it's bad all you want. I just can't for the life of me see any reason to pretend it hasn't been review/vote bombed.

[hulkgor]

It's trash it's not an adaptation it's loosely inspired bad fanfiction

Well, agree to disagree. If you hate it so much, i would recommend you stop watching it. No reason to get yourself worked up over a tv show.

[Heathy]

the great thing about tv shows you don't like is that you aren't compelled to watch them. we can pick apart a lot of these stories for inconsistencies. why didn't they just fly the eagles to Erebor or closer to mordor, why were the undead ghosts able to kill living beings? what was stopping them from just going on a rampage (they didn't even know aragorn was alive). would anyone have been able to stop them? do they just choose to be corporeal when they feel like it? on that note how does a sword or piece of armor become a ghost did it have a soul? why do ppl think sauron is a human, when hes portrayed as being at least twice as tall as either an elf or a man, is he wearing stilts? the mace hes swinging in elronds 2nd war flash back in fellowship is the size of a man. and on and on and on and on, we could pick the entire thing apart endlessly. or you can put aside the thinking cap and lean into the suspension of disbelief. because in the end it doesn't really work otherwise. trying to imagine that this has to play out as realistic as possible. its like cinema sins in here. most of what happens in these stories happens purely to make it a more interesting story, not because of any sort of logical consistency. the moment you bring deductive reasoning into this is the same moment it falls apart.

ppl care that much about the written works, they aren't going to change. so you still have what you had to begin with. some one at the tolkien estate had to OK this show. they've always been touchy about what can and cannot be in these adaptations. ppl imagine that its just a bunch of who evers throwing darts at a dart board with zero oversight. yeah, no. I don't think this show would have happened, had it not met some level of standard to those whom the IP belongs. how many ppl have tried to make adaptations out of this IP and how many of them were given the OK.