Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Rageonit]

Mate you are one of the guys coming in talking shit on Tolkien like he is your average fantasy author dude. You don't get to call one of the most renown authors, among the goats of fantasy who literally has inspired most of modern fantasy and say naw not the best material mate.

You're having hard time understanding again (which is not a surprise after the first time). Nowhere did I comment on Tolkien as a reader myself - all I was saying since the very beginning is that Tolkien's writing is difficult and often boring to the modern reader, which is simply a fact of the matter. If you believe his writing is somehow timeless and the current generation will enjoy it as much as mine did, you will die on his altar for nothing (and rightfully so).

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The irony, of course, is that most of the "action and excitement" of the movies was stuff that was added by the filmmakers and doesn't actually appear in the books... Stuff that would have been roasted by the "purists" around here looking for any excuse to shit on something.

The epic prologue battle, the wizard's duel, the chase of the Black Riders, Arwen's heroic rescue... All of these major action set-pieces in the first half of the first movie that were either embellished or invented by the filmmakers because otherwise Tolkien's work would have probably been boring as fuck.

There's no irony in it, that's simply how you make an adaptation of a source material that's not suited for the modern viewer. It should be done exactly like that, and the "purists" should be disregarded.

[bledgor]

You're having hard time understanding again (which is not a surprise after the first time). Nowhere did I comment on Tolkien as a reader myself - all I was saying since the very beginning is that Tolkien's writing is difficult and often boring to the modern reader, which is simply a fact of the matter. If you believe his writing is somehow timeless and the current genration will enjoy it as much as mine did, you will die on his altar for nothing (and rightfully so).

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong. The source material has been a gold mine for just about every facet it has entered. This all goes back to the world/books produced by Tolkien, so guess it isn't that bad of a source material. You want to continue to ignore reality, have at it, but for the rest of us we will continue to acknowledge facts.

[Rageonit]

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong. The source material has been a gold mine for just about every facet it has entered. This all goes back to the world/books produced by Tolkien. You want to continue to ignore reality, have at it, but for the rest of us we will continue to acknowledge facts.

And how many of those are truly faithful to the source material...? Right.
You're one of those people I'm talking about. Only black or white. You can't fathom that I can love something while still understanding why it won't work for people who aren't me. And so I'm "talking shit" about Tolkien because I understand why the books are boring for the modern reader. Get a grip.

[rhorle]

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong.

The games, board games, toys, etc all owe their current relevance to the Jackson films and not Tolkien's original work. Before the Jackson movies there wasn't much happening because it wasn't as prominent for the general populace.

[tikcol]

And how many of those are truly faithful to the source material...? Right.
You're one of those people I'm talking about. Only black or white. You can't fathom that I can love something while still understanding why it won't work for people who aren't me. And so I'm "talking shit" about Tolkien because I understand why the books are boring for the modern reader. Get a grip.

What is modern? What's a modern reader? Is the "modern reader" so much different than the "modern reader" from 15 years ago? How did they change? Why?

I felt pretty modern around 15 years ago when I read all the books. Are you sure you're not referring to a fantasy reader?

How did fantasy genre change in these last 15 years that if I was a teenager today, and I was into fantasy(this is the important part) I wouldn't like to read Tolkien and I would find it a bore?

I'm sure you understand even if a lot of people read, those people read different things. How did the fantasy genre change so much since the Jackson movies that makes the Tolkien books so boring for a child/teenager/young adult into fantasy today?

Do you actually think a sport enthusiast that never picked up a book in his life was reading Tolkien 30 years ago? Why would someone like that today be interested in Tolkien?

You're not making much sense with your "modern" reader/audience bullshit.

[bledgor]

And how many of those are truly faithful to the source material...? Right.
You're one of those people I'm talking about. Only black or white. You can't fathom that I can love something while still understanding why it won't work for people who aren't me. And so I'm "talking shit" about Tolkien because I understand why the books are boring for the modern reader. Get a grip.

They vary degrees but yes they do. They still function in the world he created. Do they have to be 100% Tolkien now to give him credit? What fucking straw man bullshit we pulling now? Black and white? Mate you are making goal posts, moving them, changing them into hoops, then complaining about us calling you on it.

I am not saying everyone has to love Tolkien (never said that) I am saying he has enough people that love him and his work to have a large built in audience to his work (yes in part due to the movies). Any venture/work/movie/game/whatever that is done well will make money off of his works because he wrote such a masterful world to base it all from.

You do know the movies are based on his books yes? And the games, nothing/nobody has been said that adaptations have to be 100% (in fact while talking about Rings of Power I have mentioned adaptations don't have to be and shouldn't be 100% 1 to 1, I do think you should aim to be close, like 80%, but not 1 to 1).

I never said you are talking shit because you think the books would be boring for modern readers (which in and of itself is an ass pull, if you wanted to say people are less likely to read sure, but readers of fantasy in general enjoy Tolkien), I said you are full of shit by saying Tolkien isn't a great source material WHICH ALL EVIDENCE PROVES (as dozens of games the trilogy, toys, etc) have all done very well.

Stop straw manning and get a grip that you are in this instance provably wrong.

Also if the source material is so shit for a modern audience, why would Amazon spend 250 MILLION DOLLARS JUST for the rights?

What is modern? What's a modern reader? Is the "modern reader" so much different than the "modern reader" from 15 years ago? How did they change? Why?

I felt pretty modern around 15 years ago when I read all the books. Are you sure you're not referring to a fantasy reader?

How did fantasy genre change in these last 15 years that if I was a teenager today, and I was into fantasy(this is the important part) I wouldn't like to read Tolkien and I would find it a bore?

I'm sure you understand even if a lot of people read, those people read different things. How did the fantasy genre change so much since the Jackson movies that makes the Tolkien books so boring for a child/teenager/young adult into fantasy today?

OBVIOUSLY you are an anomaly then, cause modern readers don't like Tolkien apparently.

[Khaza-R]

Also, you can dislike the adaptation and understand why the source material is not the best to adapt.
You people really are the Facebook generation. There are only thumbs up and thumbs down, black and white, nothing in between. You can only be a hater or a fanboy. And god forbid you're neither, confuses people so much!

No clue how you pulled all of that out of my comment.

I also don't really agree that its source material that difficult to adapt. Perhaps the "hardest" thing to adapt about Tolkien's work is the strong Christian undertones to post-modern audience. Otherwise, Amazon literally was given a fairly blank slate to work with. They really just had to keep the few characters who were fleshed out in second era true to character. Yet they couldn't even manage that.

With more capable writers, I have no doubt they could of easily pulled off this series very well. And likely at a fraction of the cost.

[Xath]

The games, board games, toys, etc all owe their current relevance to the Jackson films and not Tolkien's original work. Before the Jackson movies there wasn't much happening because it wasn't as prominent for the general populace.

Do you ever get tired of lying? I'm honestly curious because something like 80% of your posts are straight up lies.

[s_bushido]

There's no irony in it, that's simply how you make an adaptation of a source material that's not suited for the modern viewer. It should be done exactly like that, and the "purists" should be disregarded.

Well yeah...but you can't tell them that.

[rhorle]

Do you ever get tired of lying? I'm honestly curious because something like 80% of your posts are straight up lies.

Do you have evidence to back that up? It isn't a lie to say that the films being created skyrocketed the relevance of Tolkien. The last video game prior to the movies was 1992. The Jackson Fellowship came out in 2001 and a whole bunch of games were made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...th_video_games

The only one straight up lying here is yourself. You'd rather insult and demean then put up a solid argument. There is no denying that the films being made increased the relevance of Tolkien.

[Triceron]

Do you have evidence to back that up? It isn't a lie to say that the films being created skyrocketed the relevance of Tolkien. The last video game prior to the movies was 1992. The Jackson Fellowship came out in 2001 and a whole bunch of games were made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...th_video_games

The only one straight up lying here is yourself. You'd rather insult and demean then put up a solid argument. There is no denying that the films being made increased the relevance of Tolkien.

The Tolkien Estate was protective of their IP and wasn't lending out liscences as freely as they do now. PJ's movies certainly had an affect on having more liscenced products out, but mostly because it paved the way for the Tolkien Estate to have more confidence in liscencing the material more than anything. The entire lack of LOTR products prior to the movies is directly relative to them being much more conservative with liscencing deals.


There weren't more Tolkien videogames prior to the movies because the games that did exist were mediocre at best, and not worth pursuing further. Just look at the LOTR SNES game. Yeah, I bet you probably didn't even know that existed, that's how great it was.

[bledgor]

The Tolkien Estate was protective of their IP and wasn't lending out liscences as freely as they do now. PJ's movies certainly had an affect on having more liscenced products out, but mostly because it paved the way for the Tolkien Estate to have more confidence in liscencing the material more than anything. The entire lack of LOTR products prior to the movies is directly relative to them being much more conservative with liscencing deals.

That + the death of J.R.R. and now Christopher Tolkien, I would imagine that number will only grow. They were the real conservators of the works.

[rhorle]

The Tolkien Estate was protective of their IP and wasn't lending out liscences as freely as they do now. PJ's movies certainly had an affect on having more liscenced products out, but mostly because it paved the way for the Tolkien Estate to have more confidence in liscencing the material more than anything. The entire lack of LOTR products prior to the movies is directly relative to them being much more conservative with liscencing deals.

The rights from the Jackson film originated from the SZC and not the tolkien estate. The estate got rolayties but they did not have a say in what could be done. Because you know Tolkien sold those. That is what Amazon buying rights was such a big deal because there was a "loophole" in the worldwide exclusive rights originally sold to the SZC (now owned by Embracer).

There were also two different rights to video games at the time of the Jackson films. That is because EA obtained rights to produce games based on the movies while SZC sold the video game rights for non-film tolkien to Vivendi.

[DeltrusDisc]

Mystery solved "Galadriel" is actually Sauron in disguise.

lol thanks for the silent chuckle.

[Xath]

Do you have evidence to back that up? It isn't a lie to say that the films being created skyrocketed the relevance of Tolkien. The last video game prior to the movies was 1992. The Jackson Fellowship came out in 2001 and a whole bunch of games were made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...th_video_games

The only one straight up lying here is yourself. You'd rather insult and demean then put up a solid argument. There is no denying that the films being made increased the relevance of Tolkien.

Of course the films increased relevance but the books were absolutely relevant before then and still incredibly popular.

[Rageonit]

What is modern? What's a modern reader? Is the "modern reader" so much different than the "modern reader" from 15 years ago? How did they change? Why?

Modern reader is not a single entity (surely there are still people who enjoy a slower read), but in general, a modern reader is someone who's been growing up with all the instant gratification tools around: computers, smartphones, smart TVs, Internet. People who grew up/grow up in an environment like that have shorther attention span (google "smartphones" and "attention span" if you want to educate yourself on the matter) and are more likely to abandon something they don't find initially exciting. And Tolkien is NOT initially exciting, so with time, less and less people will find enjoynment in his books.

And yes, the world has changed pretty drastically in the last 15 years; you'd have to live under a rock to not to notice. In fact, the world has never been changing so fast as it is right now. 15 years ago we didn't have as many armchair experts spreading false information about vaccines being bad for your health and Earth being flat, and yet here we are.

[Triceron]

Just finished the latest episode.

First impressions is that it was a decent episode, but the pacing is still far too slow for me.

I have to say the Dwarf scenes are by far the best part of this show, and I have waning interest in the rest. I find myself skipping action scenes because I'm just not interested in the characters enough to care to watch em, and those action scenes are too darn predictable. I'll have to wait and see if they actually start to take risks with this show to really show tension. Maybe I've been spoiled by Game of Thrones.

[Voidwielder]

I'm sure in script form it reads nice but the actual delivery of the lines... it doesn't have flow, energy, rhythm.

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Man this show really likes it's slow-mo sequences.

[Lady Atia]

I'm sure in script form it reads nice but the actual delivery of the lines... it doesn't have flow, energy, rhythm.

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Man this show really likes it's slow-mo sequences.

Just as the PJ movies did.

Today's episode was totally awesome! Hope you guys did spot Narsil which looks 1:1 like in the movies.

Also we got a mention of Mirrormere today (although we didn't see it sadly), and every time they tease the Balrog I'm like "no no no, no no no no, stop digging there you fools!".

I still hate all the Theo stuff, which may be because that kid is 100% unlikeable. Can't wait for him to turn into a Nazgul so I don't have to see his face anymore haha. I totally have GoT-Bran level of hate for him already lol.

[Orby]

Episode 4 review

Better than the very dull third episode. I actually enjoyed this one. Still some glaring issues with dialogue and pacing, but I will give credit where credit is due, I thought this was one of the more stronger episodes so far. Things moving ahead and it feels like we are actually progressing somewhere, as we should because we are halfway through this season already, we had some conflict and some good strong scenes.

Once again the scenes with Elrond and Durin are the strength, of all the cast its these I feel the most emotionally connected to and any episode with these in are going to be rated highly. Their friendship you feel is a real thing despite Durins reservations throughout. I also felt for the Ilsildur character, the man took and bullet and cost all his crew and feels shamed about it, so you feel his need to seek redemption too. They did a good job with the Ilsildur character and because they achieved so much more it once again makes me question Galadriel who once again I have no emotional connection with. I feel the show is hitting its stride but the scenes with Galadriel are just still not doing it for me. She is the main star and centre piece of this show and I feel is the weakest part of it. Everything around her is just weak.

I enjoyed seeing Adar who I feel is going to be this season first boss to beat before moving into the next season. We still don't know much about him but I like the actor playing him. which leads me into Arondir, who I am warming up to, this guy has now gotta defend the civilians at the tower. I also really love the orcs, I actually enjoy the suspence aroudn the Arnondir scenes.

Side note I liked the effect of the Palantairi crack to show the vision., a neat new effect I enjoyed.

so yea overall a good episode, I felt it showed more promise and now the engines are running. I hope next episode goes higher, we should be past fillers at this point, they need to build up further. We have had 3 episodes of nothing but world building. While some characters are still under developed you got to push ahead now with the story and maybe develop as you go. This episode showed us the right track but still shows some cracks in pacing and dialogue. I think I enjoyed this episode enough to actually want to rewatch.

6/10

Past reviews.
Episode 1: 6/10
Episode 2: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53897065[/QUOTE]
Episode 3: 4/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53904070