Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Rathwell]

In the latest episode, I've mostly been confused by Arondir's arc (not the character himself). If Adar--seemingly the leader of the Orcs in the Southlands--let Arondir go to deliver a message, then why are the Orcs chasing him? Their leader released him...

The show seemed to make clear that the orcs were looking for something in particular, which appears to have been the sword hilt. A lot of "WE FOUND IT" happening around the sword, and now the kid has it. Arondir helped the kid. Therefore, the orcs aren't necessarily chasing Arondir but Theo.

[InfiniteCharger]

Who says there isn't help coming? It isn't the modern world where they can just shoot out a text that says they need help. We know from the trailers that there are scenes fighting orcs. We haven't seen the rest of the season to know what does or does not come. Also what is to say that they are not a group sent by the Silvan to help keep watch for the forces of dark? If the Silvan took in refuges from the last conflict don't you think that is something they would be interested in doing?

All you are doing is nitpicking because you don't like the show when the stuff you keep attacking is only a problem if you look to make it one.

It is writing. What is the point of having a watchtower if there is no way to signal an alert to get help in case something happens? That isn't even a nitpick. In older eras, such things would have had runners, scouts, messengers, carrier pigeons, fire signals or something to notify people on short notice. So all we have here is just a couple elves and a tower. Thats it. No fort nearby or other kind of Elven encampment or settlement. Typically when Elves wanted to defend an area they would make a settlement with towers and battlements nearby, not just a tower by itself.

[rhorle]

It is writing. What is the point of having a watchtower if there is no way to signal an alert to get help in case something happens?

They were ordered to withdraw so they were most likely captured as they were withdrawing. So there was nothing to signal or the orcs captured the "pigeons, runners, etc" in the process. You are creating an issue where none exists. We don't know what is nearby because we haven't been shown. The company might not yet be over due so nothing was out of the ordinary. You act as if the elves are required to be omnipotent and can never fail or be bested.

[Triceron]

They were ordered to withdraw so they were most likely captured as they were withdrawing. So there was nothing to signal or the orcs captured the "pigeons, runners, etc" in the process. You are creating an issue where none exists. We don't know what is nearby because we haven't been shown. The company might not yet be over due so nothing was out of the ordinary. You act as if the elves are required to be omnipotent and can never fail or be bested.

That's the point though. The show is lacking understanding of how things actually work. To say 'well you don't know how things work here' is literally telling people to stop thinking about things that don'y make sense and stay blissfully ignorant of all the problems with the story and setting.

There are a lot of problems with the script as though they never really thought it through from the POV of any of the characters. The video posted last page hit the mark, it seems the writers only really care about checking off boxes instead of making believable and relatable characters and world building.

And not in a consistently bad way either, cu they do some things really well and then some other parts make no sense. Like how any character is treated 'under watch' is never believable. Disa says she's escorted Elrond out, yet we see Elrond without any escort and free to roam as he pleases. We see Miriel put Galadriel on close watch, yet she freely gets to the tower of Elros, and no one gets reprimanded for letting her slip past. Elendil even gets 'promoted' for his failure to watch her, how's that make any sense?

[rhorle]

That's the point though. The show is lacking understanding of how things actually work. To say 'well you don't know how things work here' is literally telling people to stop thinking about things that don'y make sense and stay blissfully ignorant of all the problems with the story and setting.

No show is going to give every last detail of how things work. It is impossible to fit into a TV or Cinema medium. Even the Lord of the Rings film was pushing the limits of length and it left out details. We never saw how Gandalf got the reinforcements and the details of them traveling to Helm's Deep. We don't see every last detail of the Rohan amry going to Gondor. All the marching, camp making, etc. This is why it is nitpicking for the sake of it just so there is something to complain about.

[Triceron]

No show is going to give every last detail of how things work. It is impossible to fit into a TV or Cinema medium. Even the Lord of the Rings film was pushing the limits of length and it left out details. We never saw how Gandalf got the reinforcements and the details of them traveling to Helm's Deep. We don't see every last detail of the Rohan amry going to Gondor. All the marching, camp making, etc. This is why it is nitpicking for the sake of it just so there is something to complain about.

Yeah but we're not talking about other shows. We're talking about this one.

And we're not talking about what details need to be ironed out completely, it's about what makes sense on a very fundamental level. If the world doesn't make sense it doesn't come across as feeling authentic. And I think very specific examples are being made here, so there's no reason for you to compare it to something else like travelling to Helms Deep, which no one here is actually criticizing here. I think InfiniteCharger's Watchtower example is very apt, because we see the Elves keeping watch over the Southlands but now when shit's hit the fan they seem unable to do anything about it, and we're not shown how they're actually going to react at all. That's a huge difference to Helms Deep where the King literally declares going there, and we have Gandalf explain the situation and why he thinks it's a bad idea, and with him going off to do something about it. Where do we have any indication that other Elves are doing anything about the influx of refugees? Where do we see any other Elves doing anything at all really?

That you have personal low standards and don't think of such things doesn't excuse the problems that exist in this show.

[rhorle]

Yeah but we're not talking about other shows. We're talking about this one.

Duh. The point is that not every show does it so holding this show to a different standard is silly. It is creating an issue just to complain about it. On a fundamental level it makes sense that elves from a remote outpost could be captured as they withdraw and not have the wider world be immediately aware. The refugees only went to the abandoned watch tower. The show makes it a point to tell us that only a few other villages made it out of the area.

Why do other elves need to know that villagers are evacuating? How would they even know when the elves that would notify them got captured? Why can't they be responding "off-screen"?

[Triceron]

Duh. The point is that not every show does it so holding this show to a different standard is silly.

Again, what the fuck are you even talking about if you're not talking about this show? Why even bother responding if you're not gonna talk about the topic at hand? Stop with this whataboutism, dude. Like, you're literally not saying anything worth discussing here.

Why do other elves need to know that villagers are evacuating? How would they even know when the elves that would notify them got captured? Why can't they be responding "off-screen"?

Because it's bad writing and poor way of conveying information that the audience should have to understand what's actually going on.

Can you actually tell me what's going on at the watchtower and what the plans are other than them literally starving? No, you wouldn't be able to, because the show hasn't set anything up for the audience to draw any reasonable conclusion.

The way the show is set up so far it's gonna be an Orc raid on the Watchtower, and it's probably going to be a mini Helmsdeep situation. And no one knows if there are going to be reinforcements because nothing in the story has actually set up where and what those reinforcements would be. Galadriel and the Numenoreans are still super far away at this point in time, nowhere near the Southlands. No other reinforcements are established in the show, what other military power is even in the area? Some Elf fortress that they never showed us of?

The reason why this is pointed out is because the show is lacking any proper setup for reinforcements to come, so none should be expected if we're going by the show. Helms Deep in LOTR was a completely different situation since the Riders of Rohan were set up to be cavalry that was roaming the countryside and it made complete sense to have Gandalf to seek them out. That was already set up in the narrative. Here, we have nothing of the sort having been set up. Arondir's story is completely self-contained to the troops at the Watchtower and having no other known reinforcements in the area, and it would be a failing of the narrative if they intend to have a deus ex machina solution to the story involving troops we haven't seen in the area before.

[rhorle]

Again, what the fuck are you even talking about if you're not talking about this show?

I am talking about this show as I indicated when I explained what my point is. Why do you continue to respond if you are just going to blather rather than understand the topic? It isn't what aboutism to ask why there is a double standard when it comes to this show and not others. Why things are only bad when this show does it but not others. Why a 1-hour show or 3-hour movie are expected to showcase every last detail of a story in order for it to no longer be called bad.

Because it's bad writing and poor way of conveying information that the audience should have to understand what's actually going on.

Elves coming to the rescue is not needed to understand anything. They didn't have a plan behind get to a safer location. Again you indicate how silly the objections are that you don't know the entire story so therefore it is bad. Can't you watch and find out? Why is it that you need to know the exact plan and every last detail in order for it to be good writing? Lmao. This again shows how much bias those that dislike the show use to find any excuse to further that dislike. You are essentially complaining that chapter 1 of the book doesn't tell you the last chapter and everything in-between. So the book is bad.

[callipygoustp]

Four episodes in and I've already lost interest.

[Rennadrel]

Dey tuk o'r jobs!

The fact that they did a Trump rally scene is cringe as fuck. Especially when you know, elves don't tend to venture out into the realm of men very much in Middle Earth.

[Krimzin]

Four episodes in and I've already lost interest.

I truly appreciate your in depth views on the show. It shows true insight of more than just the story. Your analysis of the series after such a huge time investment shows true dedication and perseverance. If you attack life with the same studious determination it would not surprise me in the least to find out you were a credit to your parents and not a cave dweller, like most assume you are. Thank you again.

[Kumorii]

The fact that they did a Trump rally scene is cringe as fuck. Especially when you know, elves don't tend to venture out into the realm of men very much in Middle Earth.

It's weird, because it can be unintended. However, due to the marketing they had, it's very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Triceron]

I am talking about this show as I indicated when I explained what my point is. Why do you continue to respond if you are just going to blather rather than understand the topic? It isn't what aboutism to ask why there is a double standard when it comes to this show and not others. Why things are only bad when this show does it but not others. Why a 1-hour show or 3-hour movie are expected to showcase every last detail of a story in order for it to no longer be called bad.

If your point is 'not every show does it' then you're not actually talking about this show, you're talking about other shows. And no one here is holding this to the standard of other shows, we're literally pointing at examples within the show and criticizing how they don't make sense or lack information to draw any reasonable expectations for what is to come. All we know is that the Orcs are going to attack the watchtower, and everything else is 'whatever'.

It isn't what aboutism to ask why there is a double standard when it comes to this show and not others.

What other shows are we talking about? There is no double standard because we're literally talking about THIS show. What don't you understand?

Can't you watch and find out?

Yes, I can watch and find out. And I can point out how poorly this show is unraveling its plot while I'm watching it. These criticisms are all based on what we're getting from the show and what little information we have to work with moving forward.

Just as an example, I criticized how pointless it was to have Galadriel stranded in the middle of the ocean when there are far better outcomes to her plot that don't involve her being stranded at sea, and how it doesn't really make sense why she's there to begin with. Ssomeone pointed out that she's teased to go to Numenor, and then the whole plot made sense from there on. But not through a natural progression of the narrative, rather a 'checkbox' that the writers had to fulfill to put Galadriel in a situation that brings her to Numenor. And it happens to be in the most convoluted way possible, something I will still point out in retrospect to the 4 episodes we have so far. It's practically senseless considering the only reason she's alive is because she has plot armor allowing her to be lucky enough to be picked up by Numenoreans who happened to break their 'No Elves in Numenor' rule to allow her to be there. Understand that 'watching and find out' doesn't resolve any of the nonsense.

[rhorle]

If your point is 'not every show does it' then you're not actually talking about this show, you're talking about other shows.

And yet I'm talking about this show and why it doing what others does is not an issue. You are holding it to a standard greater then other shows which again is my point. Because if it isn't a problem when others shows does it why is it a problem that you aren't told every last detail as soon as possible in this show?

Nothing about the scenes in question doesn't make sense. We can draw reasonable expectations of what is to come and even know some of it because of trailers released. As we know there is a fight sequence at the outpost with Arondir. Are you telling me that you were unable to come to the conclusion that there would be a fight at an outpost refugees took shelter in? Of course everything else is "whatever". Isn't that the point of an unfolding story? That you find out as you go along?

Lmao. You are literally complaining that the first chapter of the book doesn't include the entire story and that you have to read (watch) to find out the story. Holy shit is that hilarious. The double standard is you holding this show to a higher standard when it isn't an issue with other shows. Somehow this show is supposed to cram the entire story into one episode so you can know exactly what happens in future episodes. Strange, right?

[callipygoustp]

I truly appreciate your in depth views on the show. It shows true insight of more than just the story. Your analysis of the series after such a huge time investment shows true dedication and perseverance. If you attack life with the same studious determination it would not surprise me in the least to find out you were a credit to your parents and not a cave dweller, like most assume you are. Thank you again.

Heh
{10 char}

[bledgor]

Well that was...an episode.

On the positives the dwarfs are still largely great (Elrond finding out the super secret password from the kids singing and knowing the hidden door needed/where it was made me facepalm, as well as Durin IV making him swear an oath before giving him a large chunk of mithril), NO HARFOOTS (praise Tolkien), Adar was actually fine and interesting subplot that I could find myself liking, and the show actually had some good lines that sounded Tolkien.

On the negatives, Galadriel continues to be completely insufferable (the guard scene, ugh then climbing the tower like this is assassins creed?), A lot of bad lines still remained (THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME), the Trump rally/side plot of Elendil's daughter and Pharazon's son, Miriel giving into Galadriels demands (like seriously how can anyone in the show want to do anything other than put a gag in her mouth and bind to a large rock to be thrown into the ocean), and finally the continued abuse of time/fast travel (last episode Elrond never talks to Durin IV about what he needed, but now the tower has already had its base built? We also have him travel back and forth between Eregion and Khazad-Dum like its a walk across the street. It hasn't been the 3 days of Galadriel locked up in the mean time, but who fucking knows time in this story).

Honestly I am moving from the show making me mad to just not caring about next weeks episode/the show. I barely convinced myself to watch the 4th this morning. I know certain people will froth at the mouth for me saying this, but at least at 4 hours into the LoTR trilogy I had a firm grasp on the conflict, the world, had characters I cared about, and much more. This show is trying to setup a lot but it doesn't have the characters/writing to keep me interested while they build the world around them. Will see if I watch the next/continue watching this.

[Triceron]

And yet I'm talking about this show and why it doing what others does is not an issue. You are holding it to a standard greater then other shows which again is my point.

Er?

What other shows have you seen me talk about to imply that this is the only show I have issues with? What are you using to imply I am holding it to a different standard yo any other show?

I criticized Wheel of Time for terrible pacing and narrative focus just as much as I have this show. These two shows share some very glaring fundamental world-building problems.

Lmao. You are literally complaining that the first chapter of the book doesn't include the entire story and that you have to read (watch) to find out the story

If that's what you think then you're absolutely delusional. But again, I'm not surprised considering you think any form of criticism is false criticism.

[DarkAmbient]

I truly appreciate your in depth views on the show. It shows true insight of more than just the story. Your analysis of the series after such a huge time investment shows true dedication and perseverance. If you attack life with the same studious determination it would not surprise me in the least to find out you were a credit to your parents and not a cave dweller, like most assume you are. Thank you again.

Half of an entire season is plenty to judge if a show feels worth watching or not.

[Syegfryed]

Once again for this thread, not you specifically, this post just shows a basic lack of understanding when it comes to typical character motivations shown in soooo much TV/film. She's not trying to commit suicide, she's trying all she can to actually do something to follow up on the fact she believes Sauron is still out there and is going to make his return. What else was she meant to do, just tread water for nobody knows how long and leave Middle Earth's denizens to suffer with a quippy line about how its "not my problem, I need to keep floating"?

Bold of you to say "lack of understanding when comes to motivation" when the show herself does a poor job at showing any real reason to character to do anything.

We all know what represend, of why she leave elfland to follow her goal, it does not matter, because its a retarded way to do, jumping in the ocean miles away from land is boderline suicide because its certain death, and she only gets saved by plot armor

Again, it comes down to the problem of the show having awful writing who can write something to happens that makes sense, the idea is not bad, but the writing is garbage, when they want tosmething to happen they amke something dumb to shorehorn

I dread catching up on the last few days of posts if this is where I'm starting lol I'm ready to ask again how many people have never actually read or seen any piece of media ever...

I just dread of how low your standards to think that is any good. to a point to say "not seen any piece of media", maybe you didn't watch any piece of good media for a while

In contrast, we have 4 episodes, almost 5 hour nothing happened