Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[InfiniteCharger]

Right. You are yelling at the wind. Your point has nothing to do with what we were originally discussing nor is it something that has been in doubt in the discussion we were having.

You replied to me tho and nothing you are talking about actually contradicted what I said so I am not sure of your point.
The circumstances of how this all came about does impact the bottom line and the final product.

But anyway, moving on.

[rhorle]

You replied to me tho and nothing you are talking about actually contradicted what I said so I am not sure of your point.

I don't have a point because I've never said anything about the topic you keep rambling about. You created a fictitious argument out of thin air and moved the goal posts instead of addressing what we were originally talking about. lol.

[Rageonit]

Yes, no one, because you fucking misread what he said and went off on a tangent, and now we have a bunch of people making comments on Tolkien's work vs the adaptations because of your original strawman argument.

Like you said yourself, you agreed that the LOTR movies are wider reaching. Now let' go back - where does Bledgor say the books were more far reaching than the movie adaptations?

No where. Because he never said that. All he's pointing out is that the Author is well recognized and the Books are popular, both statements being true. There's no statement made about the entire LOTR multimedia franchise being popular because of the books alone.

Whoa, no need to get aggressive, man!
So we've established that Tolkien has less reach than Peter Jackson? I'm super, super curious to see how well will it go down here.
EDIT: And take a big breath before writing a comment, you editing it all the time makes it difficult to respond.

[Askyl]

I think it's important to understand that being influential does not always translate to being popular as well.

Now I am not saying Tolkien wasn't popular, he created a world with a lot of depth that is hard to replicate, but there were multiple highly influential artists across all the platforms who died less fortunate than those they inspired. Probably a price to pay for being ahead of your time.

I know there's plenty of Americans here, and I can't say much for you. But I can promise you that in the rest of the world, Tolkien is "popular". His books, especially Hobbit, is usually a part of reading in school.

I honestly don't know a single person my age (millenials) or older that haven't read or atleast tried to read any of his books. Younger people I can't say anything for, I know most people don't read as much and we get movies for everything now.

In Europe Tolkien is a household name.

[bledgor]

Whoa, no need to get aggressive, man!
So we've established that Tolkien has less reach than Peter Jackson? I'm super, super curious to see how well will it go down here.

I mean I guess in the modern world yes, but then again you don't have Jackson/the trilogy without Tolkien so in other ways completely wrong.

Jackson while being Jackson is still Tolkien. Yes with a lesser producer the films are less popular/more forgotten, but with a lesser Author the same is true and maybe the movies never even get made. You still have Tolkien without Jackson being immensely successful/known (again hundreds of millions of books sold), but on the other side without Tolkien you can't have the Jackson films (not to say he wouldn't/hasn't produced other good movies, just not these movies in that case).

[InfiniteCharger]

I don't have a point because I've never said anything about the topic you keep rambling about. You created a fictitious argument out of thin air and moved the goal posts instead of addressing what we were originally talking about. lol.

Nah I went back and you were replying about something to do with how this adaptation isn't bad because adaptations change things and multiverse blah blah blah.

Anyway whatever.

[rhorle]

Nah I went back and you were replying about something to do with how this adaptation isn't bad because adaptations change things and multiverse blah blah blah.

Which has nothing to with making money and the Tolkien estate wanting to make money. It is hilarious that you put work in to prove how off point you were. While actually thinking you got one up on me. Lmao. You started yelling at the wind about things never said.

[Syegfryed]

Cool as former educator I knew dozens of students that read it, and every librarian I know of recommends it to fantasy readers. See how little your point means?

What is with these fucking nay Sayers trying to down play Tolkien now? HE HAS SOLD HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF COPIES OF HIS BOOKS, you are factually wrong. Also if Tolkien is just some author now who has no reach why the fuck would Amazon pay 250 million for just the rights to the appendices??? Are you saying Amazon is run by complete idiots that know nothing?

Man, this is a weird state of the world rly, people trying to say how good and amazing this series is, and trying to say "tolkien isn't as good" or "his work was not even that good", i can only imagine those people are baiting.

Like, every bit piece of fantasy after him, has his influence, motherfucker shaped the genre, the elves being like they are in every piece of media out there is because of how he did his own.

[RH92]

I know there's plenty of Americans here, and I can't say much for you. But I can promise you that in the rest of the world, Tolkien is "popular". His books, especially Hobbit, is usually a part of reading in school.

I honestly don't know a single person my age (millenials) or older that haven't read or atleast tried to read any of his books. Younger people I can't say anything for, I know most people don't read as much and we get movies for everything now.

In Europe Tolkien is a household name.

Well, I am European too.

However Europe can be a broad term if you think about it. For a long time it was split into two very different worlds and unfortunately my country happened to be on the wrong side of the fence. Instead of the cool stuff, we were learning about and reading works of a numerous russian authors that get nowhere near the recognition now as they did when I was still going to school. I hated that, after interwar period everything was a fucking chore.

I actually don't know many people who read the books before the movies came out, plenty did though when the buzz surrounding it began. Until then it was mostly known by fantasy nerds. At least that's how I remember it and I spent my childhood in a puppet theater (my father and aunt work there) and I've seen a wide variety of stories being told there.

The point is the movies helped Tolkien to reach new audiences and revitalized the fantasy genre going forward, making it actually cool.

[Dhrizzle]

As much as I love the books, this has always been true. The Tom Bombadil section of Fellowship nearly peeled me off the books completely and there's a reason no adaptation has included it, it's incredibly dull.

Tolkien was never a master at writing a gripping tale that kept readers enthralled in each chapter. He was a master mythologist who was creating a world that he had imagined. The actual storytelling is actually quite dry and tedious, often diverging into tangents (like the aforementioned Bombadil scene) that really only interested the author, himself ... and those who were most interested in the building of a world more than the story set in that world.

Bombadil is someone who is distinct from both the good and the evil sides of the conflict, a person who is satisfied to accept the world as he sees it with no desire to dominate and therefore tools of domination (the Ring) have no power over him. In some ways he represents the pacifist movement, certainly (to Tolkien's mind) a righteous and enviable world view but one that can not protect the things it values and must rely on others to do the things it can not.

[InfiniteCharger]

Which has nothing to with making money and the Tolkien estate wanting to make money. It is hilarious that you put work in to prove how off point you were. While actually thinking you got one up on me. Lmao. You started yelling at the wind about things never said.

Actually I wasn't paying attention.

Since you like wasting peoples time not listening I will do the same.

So whatever.

[Khaza-R]

Man, this is a weird state of the world rly, people trying to say how good and amazing this series is, and trying to say "tolkien isn't as good" or "his work was not even that good", i can only imagine those people are baiting.

Like, every bit piece of fantasy after him, has his influence, motherfucker shaped the genre, the elves being like they are in every piece of media out there is because of how he did his own.

I notice this behavior a lot lately whenever people feel the need to defend some half-assed reboot. When all their other arguments have failed they fall back to gaslighting people and arguing that the original was not that good.

[Rageonit]

I notice this behavior a lot lately whenever people feel the need to defend some half-assed reboot. When all their other arguments have failed they fall back to gaslighting people and arguing that the original was not that good.

Also, you can dislike the adaptation and understand why the source material is not the best to adapt.
You people really are the Facebook generation. There are only thumbs up and thumbs down, black and white, nothing in between. You can only be a hater or a fanboy. And god forbid you're neither, confuses people so much!

[bledgor]

Also, you can dislike the adaptation and understand why the source material is not the best to adapt.
You people really are the Facebook generation. There are only thumbs up and thumbs down, black and white, nothing in between. You can only be a hater or a fanboy. And god forbid you're neither, confuses people so much!

Mate you are one of the guys coming in talking shit on Tolkien like he is your average fantasy author dude. You don't get to call one of the most renown authors, among the goats of fantasy who literally has inspired most of modern fantasy and say naw not the best material mate. This is the exact gaslighting he is talking about, you are proving his point.

[s_bushido]

PJ's adaptations are full of action and excitement. The slow and boring seems to be part of this particular adaptation.

Honestly it feels like we haven't even gotten to rivendale yet.

The irony, of course, is that most of the "action and excitement" of the movies was stuff that was added by the filmmakers and doesn't actually appear in the books... Stuff that would have been roasted by the "purists" around here looking for any excuse to shit on something.

The epic prologue battle, the wizard's duel, the chase of the Black Riders, Arwen's heroic rescue... All of these major action set-pieces in the first half of the first movie that were either embellished or invented by the filmmakers because otherwise Tolkien's work would have probably been boring as fuck.

[Rageonit]

Mate you are one of the guys coming in talking shit on Tolkien like he is your average fantasy author dude. You don't get to call one of the most renown authors, among the goats of fantasy who literally has inspired most of modern fantasy and say naw not the best material mate.

You're having hard time understanding again (which is not a surprise after the first time). Nowhere did I comment on Tolkien as a reader myself - all I was saying since the very beginning is that Tolkien's writing is difficult and often boring to the modern reader, which is simply a fact of the matter. If you believe his writing is somehow timeless and the current generation will enjoy it as much as mine did, you will die on his altar for nothing (and rightfully so).

- - - Updated - - -

The irony, of course, is that most of the "action and excitement" of the movies was stuff that was added by the filmmakers and doesn't actually appear in the books... Stuff that would have been roasted by the "purists" around here looking for any excuse to shit on something.

The epic prologue battle, the wizard's duel, the chase of the Black Riders, Arwen's heroic rescue... All of these major action set-pieces in the first half of the first movie that were either embellished or invented by the filmmakers because otherwise Tolkien's work would have probably been boring as fuck.

There's no irony in it, that's simply how you make an adaptation of a source material that's not suited for the modern viewer. It should be done exactly like that, and the "purists" should be disregarded.

[bledgor]

You're having hard time understanding again (which is not a surprise after the first time). Nowhere did I comment on Tolkien as a reader myself - all I was saying since the very beginning is that Tolkien's writing is difficult and often boring to the modern reader, which is simply a fact of the matter. If you believe his writing is somehow timeless and the current genration will enjoy it as much as mine did, you will die on his altar for nothing (and rightfully so).

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong. The source material has been a gold mine for just about every facet it has entered. This all goes back to the world/books produced by Tolkien, so guess it isn't that bad of a source material. You want to continue to ignore reality, have at it, but for the rest of us we will continue to acknowledge facts.

[Rageonit]

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong. The source material has been a gold mine for just about every facet it has entered. This all goes back to the world/books produced by Tolkien. You want to continue to ignore reality, have at it, but for the rest of us we will continue to acknowledge facts.

And how many of those are truly faithful to the source material...? Right.
You're one of those people I'm talking about. Only black or white. You can't fathom that I can love something while still understanding why it won't work for people who aren't me. And so I'm "talking shit" about Tolkien because I understand why the books are boring for the modern reader. Get a grip.

[rhorle]

Mate the movies, the dozens of games, board games, toys, etc all prove you are wrong.

The games, board games, toys, etc all owe their current relevance to the Jackson films and not Tolkien's original work. Before the Jackson movies there wasn't much happening because it wasn't as prominent for the general populace.

[tikcol]

And how many of those are truly faithful to the source material...? Right.
You're one of those people I'm talking about. Only black or white. You can't fathom that I can love something while still understanding why it won't work for people who aren't me. And so I'm "talking shit" about Tolkien because I understand why the books are boring for the modern reader. Get a grip.

What is modern? What's a modern reader? Is the "modern reader" so much different than the "modern reader" from 15 years ago? How did they change? Why?

I felt pretty modern around 15 years ago when I read all the books. Are you sure you're not referring to a fantasy reader?

How did fantasy genre change in these last 15 years that if I was a teenager today, and I was into fantasy(this is the important part) I wouldn't like to read Tolkien and I would find it a bore?

I'm sure you understand even if a lot of people read, those people read different things. How did the fantasy genre change so much since the Jackson movies that makes the Tolkien books so boring for a child/teenager/young adult into fantasy today?

Do you actually think a sport enthusiast that never picked up a book in his life was reading Tolkien 30 years ago? Why would someone like that today be interested in Tolkien?

You're not making much sense with your "modern" reader/audience bullshit.