1. #5121
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Jeez I totally forgot that connection. Yeah that makes even less sense now that the mark is supposed to be a map and a plan. Why is it appearing on the most random of places. It's on an anvil. It's on a blade. It's marked on dead bodies. What are the writers hoping to get across here?
    Why is that considered an inconsistency? That’s pretty much how a lot of symbols work, having multiple meanings depending on who is viewing them. For example, the Christian cross has deep meaning to a lot of people of that faith, symbolic of Christ and sacrifice, representative of an actual object in their mythology, and to a lot of people it simply IS the symbol of Christianity, one that they put on everything from jewelry to bumper stickers to coffee mugs and so on.

    The symbol being the Mark of Sauron, marking his kills and his instruments (the anvil, the sword), while also having a special secret meaning to his followers isn’t weird at all.

  2. #5122
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Why is that considered an inconsistency? That’s pretty much how a lot of symbols work, having multiple meanings depending on who is viewing them. For example, the Christian cross has deep meaning to a lot of people of that faith, symbolic of Christ and sacrifice, representative of an actual object in their mythology, and to a lot of people it simply IS the symbol of Christianity, one that they put on everything from jewelry to bumper stickers to coffee mugs and so on.

    The symbol being the Mark of Sauron, marking his kills and his instruments (the anvil, the sword), while also having a special secret meaning to his followers isn’t weird at all.
    Yes but the symbol isn't just something of multiple meanings. The show wants to define the sigil as having a specific meaning. And their explanation so far is that 1: Galadriel believes it is leading the Orcs somewhere and 2: she confirms it by this being a map of the Southlands, and as a plan B for when Morgoth fails.

    Now if the show establishes this as the meaning of the symbol, then it makes little sense why Sauron would be using this mark so seemingly randomly. It is mired by actions inconsistent to the plot, or if anything, self-defeating considering the seemingly random application of the mark on an Elf is the main motivation of the main character in believing Sauron is still alive.

    So why is Sauron even adopting this 'Plan B' mark as his personal sigil and marking Elven corpses with it during a time when Morgoth hadn't been defeated yet? The show writers probably don't seem to care enough to explain. The mark is serving its purpose as a macguffin towards the Southlands and that's all that they care to make this symbol to be.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-18 at 08:03 PM.

  3. #5123
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Not a very bright observation, people are either expressing their pleasure or displeasure of the show. Some on both sides steeped in ideology, one side is clearly more ideological in my opinion though.
    Of course you want to discuss something if you feel it's amazing and everyone else feels it's terrible or the other way around.
    It's steering pretty far from a normal discussion when anyone that likes the show is frequently called a 'shill'. But sure, let this become another StarCitizen megathread for a couple more hundred pages.

  4. #5124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Not a very bright observation, people are either expressing their pleasure or displeasure of the show. Some on both sides steeped in ideology, one side is clearly more ideological in my opinion though.
    Of course you want to discuss something if you feel it's amazing and everyone else feels it's terrible or the other way around.
    Personally I am not sure I have seen many super positive viewers here. Mostly people here are extremely negative or, like me, like the show but recognize there are some issues.
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  5. #5125
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Love the "gatekeepers" on this thread telling people what they should feel about the show, and the bashing\arguments that follow if\when they disagree with it.
    yup, sucks when people come in and tell others they shouldn't dislike the show and argue that the reasons are wrong.
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  6. #5126
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    It's steering pretty far from a normal discussion when anyone that likes the show is frequently called a 'shill'. But sure, let this become another StarCitizen megathread for a couple more hundred pages.
    Nah, that would be people telling others they can't criticize the show and needlessly defend against negativity.

    Otherwise we have plenty of discussion on the good parts of the show too. The sad thing is there aren't many good things to really discuss and it doesn't hold deep discussion because everything in the show is revealed in a surface level need-to-know basis.

    Like what good things should we even talk about here? I'll bet it won't last a page. It'd be a couple people agreeing the Dwarf parts are good and that's about it.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-18 at 08:18 PM.

  7. #5127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    yup, sucks when people come in and tell others they shouldn't dislike the show and argue that the reasons are wrong.
    careful now, you might confuse the poor guy with logic.

  8. #5128
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I suppose I just consider it another dark souls because the combat, story telling, and artistic style are all the same. It's just a new world that now happens to be massive and open to freely roam. They didn't mess with the core aspects of a game. The lore might as well be dark souls because it feels nearly identical.
    A funny post, given that you described RoP's relationship to the previous Jackson movies to a tee. It's the same shit, just with different stories and different characters...

  9. #5129
    After watching the first three episodes, I think that we can agree that RoP looks really good, good as one of the best tv shows ever done in that regard. And... That is all.

    I read several Tolkien books and I think that I am a fan of his work, but there are people in this thread that know waaaay too much. I am aware that the show do not respect many aspects of the books, but what the hell do you expect? It is an adaptation of the books. And do not get me on the racial bullshit, because I could not give a shit about it, even if all the characters were blue. Those are not the problems of the show. And I do not know shit about acting, but all the actors seem pretty good to me.

    The problem is that I LOVE medieval fantasy and I LOVE TLotR, and in three episodes my reaction always was, "meh". Do not ask me why, but I saw a few hours ago the first episode of House of the Dragon, and fuck, I am absolutely hooked, its SO much better than RoP, even if it looks way worst than RoP (not saying that it looks bad, in fact it looks amazing, but RoP is way better in that regard IMO).

    The difference might be that House of the Dragon is telling me a story for adults, and RoP is telling me a story as if I were a stupid kid.

    Ok so Galadriel jumps ship in the middle of the ocean. OK. Casually a boat of people from a veeeery far away land are passing by. Like in that exact point in the middle of an ocean. NICE. So they get attacked by giant fish and everybody dies except Galadriel and a guy, who, guess what, is a King. ALRIGHT. In the middle of an ocean, casually, a ship from Numenor saves them. Yes, a ship that was passing just by the very little raft in which our heroes were. AWESOME. You will not believe this, but the captain of that ship is just one of the veeeery few people that would befriend an elf in Numenor. AMAZING. And that guy leads Galadriel to some documents that help her to continue looking for Sauron. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE COINCIDENCE.

    You get the idea. You can apply this process to many parts of the show and the result is "meh". I will probably keep watching it because I really like the dwarves and Arondir and Elrond, even if their adventures are designed by morons.
    Last edited by Darkarath; 2022-09-18 at 10:03 PM.
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  10. #5130
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Again, "Side 2" isn't praising the show..."side 2" is saying "hey, maybe it will be good, though". That is not an extreme position.

    Calling out "side 1" for being bigots is not the same thing as defending the show.
    I have to admit I do enjoy how consistently dishonest you are.

  11. #5131
    Watched episode 4, I liked it, esp for what it is.

    But it's not Lord of the rings, that isnt Galadrial elves arent wrinkled like humans, even at great age, etc.

    They either needed a new character, or completely re write Galadrial, as well as undo all their changes ,

    Still for what it is it's not bad, it just isnt LotR

  12. #5132
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I have to admit I do enjoy how consistently dishonest you are.
    Point out where I'm being dishonest.

    Keep in mind that the post you quoted was from BEFORE the show was even released.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  13. #5133
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Jeez I totally forgot that connection. Yeah that makes even less sense now that the mark is supposed to be a map and a plan. Why is it appearing on the most random of places. It's on an anvil. It's on a blade. It's marked on dead bodies. What are the writers hoping to get across here?
    Trying to emulate GoT which had a recurring mark showing up?
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  14. #5134
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    A funny post, given that you described RoP's relationship to the previous Jackson movies to a tee. It's the same shit, just with different stories and different characters...
    But with bad writing, bad acting, plot holes, nonsenses and butchered lore, ignoring that, yep, same shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Trying to emulate GoT which had a recurring mark showing up?
    Pretty sure it was just trying to emluate the Great eye in a eye to bring nostalgia, they thou8gh it would be clever or something. But we can pass up the possibility of something they took from GOT, since it seems this show want to be.

  15. #5135
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Point out where I'm being dishonest.

    Keep in mind that the post you quoted was from BEFORE the show was even released.
    Because there were significant indicators outside of just casting before the show was released. They had already said they were compressing the timeline and the trailers had already shown a lack of care in costuming in particular.

  16. #5136
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKarateDeathCar View Post
    You know it's funny because the same 5 or so people repeatedly talking about how absolutely awful every single possible aspect of the show is down to even the tiniest little things, but they keep watching it from week to week without fail. If you hate it that much, move on. You're only 4 episodes in, you're out practically nothing. All you're doing is literally supporting the show by "hate"-watching it and driving up the viewership. I just do not understand this mentality that seems so prevalent these days. I think Fear the Walking Dead is an absolute joke of a show. Guess what I don't do? I DON'T watch it every week, I don't post about it multiple times a day, I don't obsess over every detail. I just stopped watching it and moved on.
    Long stopped watching doesn't mean I can't check summaries and see what new errors they made this week.

  17. #5137
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Trying to emulate GoT which had a recurring mark showing up?
    Eh, the mark being a representation of some mountains, instead of a rune (or whatever she thought it was initially) doesn't have to be anything more significant than that. It's still just a symbol that can be used to show allegiance. People use icons/symbols/letters to represent all sorts of shit IRL. Some of it literal, some of it more esoteric.

  18. #5138
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Because there were significant indicators outside of just casting before the show was released. They had already said they were compressing the timeline and the trailers had already shown a lack of care in costuming in particular.
    None of that has anything to do with what you referred to as being dishonest.

    Read it again:

    Again, "Side 2" isn't praising the show..."side 2" is saying "hey, maybe it will be good, though". That is not an extreme position.

    Calling out "side 1" for being bigots is not the same thing as defending the show.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Long stopped watching doesn't mean I can't check summaries and see what new errors they made this week.
    AKA: "I stopped watching the show...so now i just regurgitate someone else's opinions"
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #5139
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKarateDeathCar View Post
    Why do you care? You don't like the show.
    Because I care about the property it is based on and I don't like seeing it trampled on? They are also contractually obligated to make 5 seasons of this so changes they make now will spiral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    None of that has anything to do with what you referred to as being dishonest.

    Read it again:



    - - - Updated - - -



    AKA: "I stopped watching the show...so now i just regurgitate someone else's opinions"
    Facts aren't opinions. I'm talking about verifiable changes not things people think might happen.

    In your idiotic posts you claimed that side 1 was bigoted while side 2 was not. You claimed the only reason that people could have questions about the show was being bigoted. Even ignoring casting there were significant issues that were already apparent at that point.

  20. #5140
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post

    In your idiotic posts you claimed that side 1 was bigoted while side 2 was not. You claimed the only reason that people could have questions about the show was being bigoted. Even ignoring casting there were significant issues that were already apparent at that point.
    No, my posts said that calling people out for being bigots is not defending the show and the "extreme position" that was being presented by that side was "Hey, maybe it will be good".
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

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