1. #5181
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    I think Halbrand will be a Nazgul, just not the witch king.

    It’s the witch king of Angmar. Angmar is way in the north… assuming he is actually the rightful king of the southlands, there is no connection. Besides, the other nazgul are “great kings of men” aswell.
    Angmar was taken by the Witch King though, presumedly after he already becomes a Nazgul. There doesn't need to be a connection since he takes it and establishes his realm by force.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-16 at 07:09 PM.

  2. #5182
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    I think Halbrand will be a Nazgul, just not the witch king.

    It’s the witch king of Angmar. Angmar is way in the north… assuming he is actually the rightful king of the southlands, there is no connection. Besides, the other nazgul are “great kings of men” aswell.
    Thats a good point, he's supposed to be the rightful king of the southlands, so yeah indeed not angmar. I missed that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Angmar was taken by the Witch King though, presumedly after he already becomes a Nazgul. There doesn't need to be a connection since he takes it and establishes his realm by force.
    Well shoot but then there's this. =\

    Could go either way I suppose. We're supposed to see them all created in this show though no?

    Ringswiki just says he's "likely one of three kings of numenor" so now I'm leaning more toward it not being him
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2022-09-16 at 07:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  3. #5183
    About the Witch King:

    Some time after Sauron seized the Rings of Power in the Sack of Eregion, S.A. 1697 he gave nine of them to Mannish kings, sorcerers and other warriors.[1] With the power of their rings, the Nine achieved glory and grew wealthy, but they eventually started hating life as they were slowly drawn under Sauron’s dominion. In the end, they all became the dreadful Ringwraiths.

    The one later known as the Witch-king was one of these, probably[2] one of the unnamed three lords of Númenor to take the rings.[3] He first appeared in the histories as a Ringwraith in S.A. 2251. Being the most powerful of the Nazgûl, he became their chief and the most feared servant of his master Sauron.
    https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Witch-king

    It should be one of the Kings who receives a ring. Given that there are no Kings in Numenor at this point in the series and only Miriel, not sure what kings will be introduced to become the Nazghul in this series. Maybe it will just be some rando person.

  4. #5184
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    About the Witch King:


    https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Witch-king

    It should be one of the Kings who receives a ring. Given that there are no Kings in Numenor at this point in the series and only Miriel, not sure what kings will be introduced to become the Nazghul in this series. Maybe it will just be some rando person.
    Well.... Halbrand is supposedly a King, and he's in Numenor so....

  5. #5185
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    About the Witch King:


    https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Witch-king

    It should be one of the Kings who receives a ring. Given that there are no Kings in Numenor at this point in the series and only Miriel, not sure what kings will be introduced to become the Nazghul in this series. Maybe it will just be some rando person.
    I suspect that when ringswiki is talking about "One of 3 kings of numenor" it doesn't mean THE king, but instead one of the lords referenced in your own quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  6. #5186
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well.... Halbrand is supposedly a King, and he's in Numenor so....
    True. Just pointing out there aren't any more Kings in Numenor after Pharazon/Miriel so it remains to be seen what Numenorean kings there could be in this series to become Nazghul.

    Halbrand could become a wraith but he isn't a King of Numenor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    I suspect that when ringswiki is talking about "One of 3 kings of numenor" it doesn't mean THE king, but instead one of the lords referenced in your own quote.
    The rings were created 1500 years before the fall of Numenor, with plenty of time for them to be given to 3 Numenorean kings.

    So part of the 'mystery' here is how this new timeline in the series is going to accomplish all of that and when.

  7. #5187
    Not only do I have questions of the timeline, I have questions on the passing of time.

    There's an assumption that chunks of time are being passed, but it's all inconsistent. Galadriel and Halbrand's story is supposed to be in Numenor for a matter of 2-3 days per Halbrand's request, and that makes sense. They'd be a few days lost at sea, with a quick rescue, and a swift travel to Numenor where they've been at for less-than-a-week's time. And that's where the story is so far with them.

    But then we see Elrond's story with huge progress on the Tower. And now that old strange dude talking to Theo implies it's been weeks since the Meteor was seen. So how exactly is time progressing here? Just trying to make sense of it, because I was under the assumption that all the arcs were following a similar progression of time, and I'm not sure it's meant to be condensed in some areas and spread out in others.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-16 at 08:14 PM.

  8. #5188
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    True. Just pointing out there aren't any more Kings in Numenor after Pharazon/Miriel so it remains to be seen what Numenorean kings there could be in this series to become Nazghul.

    Halbrand could become a wraith but he isn't a King of Numenor.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The rings were created 1500 years before the fall of Numenor, with plenty of time for them to be given to 3 Numenorean kings.

    So part of the 'mystery' here is how this new timeline in the series is going to accomplish all of that and when.
    I'm aware of the proper timeline. That's kind of what I was talking about.

    We're apparently supposed to see all of the wraiths created as well as the rings get created all within the confines of this compressed timeline. So we're musing on who might be who =\

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Not only do I have questions of the timeline, I have questions on the passing of time.

    There's an assumption that chunks of time are being passed, but it's all inconsistent. Galadriel and Halbrand's story is supposed to be in Numenor for a matter of 2-3 days per Halbrand's request, and that makes sense. They'd be a few days lost at sea, with a quick rescue, and a swift travel to Numenor where they've been at for less-than-a-week's time. And that's where the story is so far with them.

    But then we see Elrond's story with huge progress on the Tower. And now that old strange dude talking to Theo implies it's been weeks since the Meteor was seen. So how exactly is time progressing here? Just trying to make sense of it, because I was under the assumption that all the arcs were following a similar progression of time, and I'm not sure if they are and more time is passing without explanation or if it's meant to be condensed in some areas and spread out in others.
    I'm starting to think each of the perspectives has its own continuity as opposed to each of them progressing along side of each other, at least thats how I've been able to make sense of it.

    Like the Elrond perspective is progressing much faster than say, the Halbrand/Galadriel perspective though if thats the case I wonder at what point they'll merge?
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2022-09-16 at 08:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  9. #5189
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    I'm starting to think each of the perspectives has its own continuity as opposed to each of them progressing along side of each other, at least thats how I've been able to make sense of it.

    Like the Elrond perspective is progressing much faster than say, the Halbrand/Galadriel perspective though if thats the case I wonder at what point they'll merge?
    I would have preferred them to make use of cuts and pacing to imply time passage if that's the case. Like if the Harfoots got a time skip by next episode, I'd be perfectly fine since we didn't see them now. But I feel like Galadriel's arc in Numenor should have been contained and resolved before they jump back to Elrond and show the progress of the Tower. Their arcs are tied together because we know when Galadriel and Elrond meet each other, and the passage of time between the two should be relative. The way it is right now, it's so jarring to me that we have timelapses being cross-cut between each other.

  10. #5190
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Yeah, maybe read more than a quarter of my posts instead of selectively quoting tangential points you're more comfortable engaging with and then I will write a response to your argument (even though I basically already adressed most of it which you would know if you read my posts). You also refused to answer even a single question I posed to you (both in the last post and the one before that) so it is pretty obvious that you're not willing to seriously engage with the argument.



    Hardly an excuse. House of the Dragon looks much better, has better dialogue, superior acting (and actors), costumes etc. while costing a fraction of Rings of Power.
    U sr nailed it with the house Of dragons ref

  11. #5191
    *yawn* at least there's dwarves. pansy elves and humans are boring.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  12. #5192
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Not only do I have questions of the timeline, I have questions on the passing of time.

    There's an assumption that chunks of time are being passed, but it's all inconsistent. Galadriel and Halbrand's story is supposed to be in Numenor for a matter of 2-3 days per Halbrand's request, and that makes sense. They'd be a few days lost at sea, with a quick rescue, and a swift travel to Numenor where they've been at for less-than-a-week's time. And that's where the story is so far with them.

    But then we see Elrond's story with huge progress on the Tower. And now that old strange dude talking to Theo implies it's been weeks since the Meteor was seen. So how exactly is time progressing here? Just trying to make sense of it, because I was under the assumption that all the arcs were following a similar progression of time, and I'm not sure it's meant to be condensed in some areas and spread out in others.
    The timeline is compressed. Not even speculation, its known.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  13. #5193
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The timeline is compressed. Not even speculation, its known.
    Yeah, and that wasn't one of the questions about the timeline that I have. Like you said, it's known.

  14. #5194
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yeah, and that wasn't one of the questions about the timeline that I have. Like you said, it's known.
    I should have explained what I meant a bit.

    It seems like they are using something like a logarithmic scale, which is a form of compression.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  15. #5195
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Like the Elrond perspective is progressing much faster than say, the Halbrand/Galadriel perspective though if thats the case I wonder at what point they'll merge?
    I'm not sure that it is. We know that Elrond was introduced to the project sometime after Galadriel was "sent off". When the common element, the falling meteor, is show we see him with Celebrimbor but not much context of their location is given. So being introduced to the tower and the dwarves could have already happened prior to the meteor as a sort of flash back. Or the dwarves might just be capable builders as doesn't the show mention 19 work crews? If they work around the clock a tower base that is shown might be feasible or Elrond got brought in after the tower was already started.

    All the view points seem to share the same general time period. The common element of the meteor falling seems to be the point where time skips no longer happen in the story. Give or take based on how much time is shown for each viewpoint as some would span more time then others.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #5196
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    I'm starting to think each of the perspectives has its own continuity as opposed to each of them progressing along side of each other, at least thats how I've been able to make sense of it.

    Like the Elrond perspective is progressing much faster than say, the Halbrand/Galadriel perspective though if thats the case I wonder at what point they'll merge?
    I wouldn't call them separate continuities, but there definitely seems to be a larger passage of time in Elrond's story. I'm guessing it just means that they won't merge again until much later in the story. Which makes sense, given that so far there's been no connection between what he's doing and the crisis happening in the Southlands. I fully expect Meteor Man to lead his new hobbit friends down south at some point, looking for those stars.

  17. #5197
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    All the view points seem to share the same general time period. The common element of the meteor falling seems to be the point where time skips no longer happen in the story. Give or take based on how much time is shown for each viewpoint as some would span more time then others.
    My biggest question circles around how Galadriel's arc fits into that, since the Elrond arc seems to follow the same 'it's been weeks since the meteor' time progression of the Southlands. What's throwing me for a loop is the "give us 2-3 days" condition that Halbrand and the Queen agreed to, and how long they're actually in Numenor for.

  18. #5198
    The biggest problem with the show is that it has too many stories going on at once. And they keep expanding them without giving them a chance to breathe. It's trying to follow what Game of Thrones did, but you need interesting characters to make that work, which this one does not.

    We have 5 stories going on, just 3 to many. The show also needs more clear antagonists - there's no stakes or menace to the orcs this time around. LotR was greaet when it showcased the industrial might of Saruman against the natural wonder of Fangorn, the menacing music and panning camera angles, while ripping orcs out of the ground and branding them. There's just nothing like that in this.
    Last edited by infinitemeridian; 2022-09-17 at 02:26 AM.

  19. #5199
    This is a very fair criticism of the show. As he says, regardless of all the political angles or unsatisfying plot, it's just the writing itself that is poorly done and limits this show. It won't be remembered well, despite the vociferous defense by those who are ideologically inclined to defend it at all costs. And the ideological complaints won't really matter much over time, either. It's just a poorly written show because the writers did not care about the story.


  20. #5200
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    This is a very fair criticism of the show. As he says, regardless of all the political angles or unsatisfying plot, it's just the writing itself that is poorly done and limits this show. It won't be remembered well, despite the vociferous defense by those who are ideologically inclined to defend it at all costs. And the ideological complaints won't really matter much over time, either. It's just a poorly written show because the writers did not care about the story.

    Agree with many of the points made in the video. And people wondered why we 'get upset over one snow troll scene'. It's really a symptom of a much bigger problem that the defenders of the show just don't want to recognize.

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