Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Dhrizzle]

I wonder if it is a subtle hint at the elves being manipulated. We know Sauron was involved with the rings and maybe Celebrimbor had a moment of clarity from whatever "spell" they are under.

What Celebrimbor actually says is Earendil told him his future would be in his son's (Elrond's) hands. It seems a natural place to remember that conversation as Elrond had just secured Celebrimbor's future.

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Thats a good point, he's supposed to be the rightful king of the southlands, so yeah indeed not angmar. I missed that.

I'm not 100% sure but weren't the Southlanders moved there after the War of Wrath? I did think it was their ancestral home.

It's also irrelevant, the Witch King wasn't from Angmar, he established Angmar in the Third Age to rival the Numenorean kingdoms.

[Kumorii]

About the meteor guy.

Galadriel established during the opening scene that the evil is so great that their torches have no warmth.
When Nori falls down the hole, she calls out "It's not hot...".

You think this is a connection between the two? It's hard to say with the contrivances in the story so far and a lot of the comments, dialog and events tend to focus on spectacle rather than story.

But that would imply this could be Sauron (no idea how lore accurate that would be, I would imagine Sauron never left Middle Earth).
Or it could be Saruman and not Gandalf. But Saruman wouldn't arrive "evil" and instead should've been corrupted or allied himself to Sauron later on.

What other evil characters do we know of he could be if this connection is to be true?

EDIT: Could also imply that Not-Gandalf was imprisoned in the meteor by evil forces for some reason or akin to that.

[Dhrizzle]

Can you actually tell me what's going on at the watchtower and what the plans are other than them literally starving? No, you wouldn't be able to, because the show hasn't set anything up for the audience to draw any reasonable conclusion.

Do you actually watch the show? It's made clear as day that they don't have any plans. The Southlanders aren't militarily experienced, quite the opposite in fact, so all they've done is panic and flee to the most secure spot. It's a major plot point that they have no plans and are in danger of starving to death, how can you watch that and then complain they haven't told you what those non-existent plans are?

[Veggie50]

About the meteor guy.

Galadriel established during the opening scene that the evil is so great that their torches have no warmth.
When Nori falls down the hole, she calls out "It's not hot...".

You think this is a connection between the two? It's hard to say with the contrivances in the story so far and a lot of the comments, dialog and events tend to focus on spectacle rather than story.

But that would imply this could be Sauron (no idea how lore accurate that would be, I would imagine Sauron never left Middle Earth).
Or it could be Saruman and not Gandalf. But Saruman wouldn't arrive "evil" and instead should've been corrupted or allied himself of Sauron later on.

What other evil characters do we know of he could be if this connection is to be true?

To quote the lotr: “the enemy would look fairer, but feel fouler”. The meteor guy isn’t fair enough to be evil, if you ask me.

[Kumorii]

To quote the lotr: “the enemy would look fairer, but feel fouler”. The meteor guy isn’t fair enough to be evil, if you ask me.

I'm with you on that, I don't think so either. I think it can be an interesting speculation however and actually a nice hint for the show to make between these 2 scenes and statements. So I kinda hope it's someone who is evil, just don't know enough to speculate whom it might be.

[Syegfryed]

I'm with you on that, I don't think so either. I think it can be an interesting speculation however and actually a nice hint for the show to make between these 2 scenes and statements. So I kinda hope it's someone who is evil, just don't know enough to speculate whom it might be.

We already know its a wizard of some sort, the question is, how far they will butcher the lore? they could say its Sauron but that is too obnoxious even for then, so, the only options left imo are one of the wizards.

The show is making sure to mimic gandalf in every thing he does, like the trick he use to scary Bilbo in the fellowship, but that would be asinine since Gandalf only comes in the third age, but again, if Isildur is alive we already know they give two shits about it, so its either him, or a long shot Saruman, and they are just trying to "deceive us" with the gandalf thing

[s_bushido]

if Isildur is alive we already know they give two shits about it

...what is that supposed to mean.

[Syegfryed]

...what is that supposed to mean.

It means the timeline is all over the place cause him and Gandalf were not supposed to be there yet.

[Kumorii]

We already know its a wizard of some sort, the question is, how far they will butcher the lore? they could say its Sauron but that is too obnoxious even for then, so, the only options left imo are one of the wizards.

The show is making sure to mimic gandalf in every thing he does, like the trick he use to scary Bilbo in the fellowship, but that would be asinine since Gandalf only comes in the third age, but again, if Isildur is alive we already know they give two shits about it, so its either him, or a long shot Saruman, and they are just trying to "deceive us" with the gandalf thing

Yeah, Saruman would be the "logical" bait and switch.

[s_bushido]

It means the timeline is all over the place cause him and Gandalf were not supposed to be there yet.

It was Isildur who saved a fruit of the White Tree and helped found the kingdom of Gondor after the fall of Numenor. Where else is he supposed to be, if not "there yet?"

[DarkAmbient]

It was Isildur who saved a fruit of the White Tree and helped found the kingdom of Gondor after the fall of Numenor. Where else is he supposed to be, if not "there yet?"

Isildur wasn't born for another 1700 years after the rings were forged, and they haven't been forged yet.

[rhorle]

The show is making sure to mimic gandalf in every thing he does, like the trick he use to scary Bilbo in the fellowship, but that would be asinine since Gandalf only comes in the third age, but again, if Isildur is alive we already know they give two shits about it, so its either him, or a long shot Saruman, and they are just trying to "deceive us" with the gandalf thing

It is crazy that you assign a character to it just so you can complain about how bad that assignment is. You are creating something just to complain. It is entirely possible that they created a Maia for the show so it doesn't have to be any of the known "Wizards". Given the time compression and the Blue Wizards being sent in the Second Age after the rings were forged it is most likely a Blue Wizard. Tolkien contradicts himself on the time the Wizards were sent. In Unfinished Tales he said they all came together in TA 1000 but in The Peoples of Middle-earth he says the Blues arrived in SA 1600.

[s_bushido]

Isildur wasn't born for another 1700 years after the rings were forged, and they haven't been forged yet.

/sigh

They explicitly said that the timeline was going to be compressed for the sake of having human characters that mattered. How many times does that need to be repeated. Banging on about Isildur specifically, when Elendil is right over there as well...is fucking stupid.

[Syegfryed]

/sigh

They explicitly said that the timeline was going to be compressed for the sake of having human characters that mattered. How many times does that need to be repeated. Banging on about Isildur specifically, when Elendil is right over there as well...is fucking stupid.

Thats precisely why i said the timeline is fucked so it can be Gandalf or another wizard, duh

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It is crazy that you assign a character to it just so you can complain about how bad that assignment is. You are creating something just to complain.It is entirely possible that they created a Maia for the show so it doesn't have to be any of the known "Wizards". Given the time compression and the Blue Wizards being sent in the Second Age after the rings were forged it is most likely a Blue Wizard. Tolkien contradicts himself on the time the Wizards were sent. In Unfinished Tales he said they all came together in TA 1000 but in The Peoples of Middle-earth he says the Blues arrived in SA 1600.

What the hell are you even trying to say in the bold part dude, i didn't "assign a character" it is a wizard, its blatantly what he is. The wizards are Maiars

The thing is how the wizards don't show up until the rings were forged, and here we have one. Yeah it could be a blue wizard, but due to the show making sure to mimic Gandalf, for all the nostalgia juice, i doubt its one of the blues or even the brown.

[DarkAmbient]

/sigh

They explicitly said that the timeline was going to be compressed for the sake of having human characters that mattered. How many times does that need to be repeated. Banging on about Isildur specifically, when Elendil is right over there as well...is fucking stupid.

I mean you can continue to float around the thread being sooo tired and fed up with reading stuff that you disagree with but at some point you just have to accept that the diversions that the show is taking from established lore are things that people will notice and comment on.

[rhorle]

What the hell are you even trying to say in the bold part dude, i didn't "assign a character" it is a wizard, its blatantly what he is. The wizards are Maiars

You said the show is making the character either Gandalf or Sarumon. You assinged a character, Gandalf or Sarumon, to it in order to complain about how stupid that would be. The show hasn't made any hints at who it is.

It doesn't matter if the Blue Wizards didn't show up until the rings are forged in Tolkien-timeline. The show has a compressed version and a different one hence why Isildur is alive before the rings have been shown to be forged. It is crazy how you ignore parts of the show just to try and justify your made up complaint.

[Syegfryed]

You said the show is making the character either Gandalf or Sarumon. You assinged a character, Gandalf or Sarumon, to it in order to complain about how stupid that would be. The show hasn't made any hints at who it is.

No, im saying regardless of what or who he is stupid, try to read things before complaining about it.

And yes the show gave plenty of hints about him being Gandalf, like i said, he uses the same "shadow" trick to scare the girl like he did with Bilbo, he does again with the fireflies, all of this are hints about Gandalf and it could be just a bait and switch

It doesn't matter if the Blue Wizards didn't show up until the rings are forged in Tolkien-timeline. The show has a compressed version and a different one hence why Isildur is alive before the rings have been shown to be forged. It is crazy how you ignore parts of the show just to try and justify your made up complaint.

Its obnoxious how you get so worked up about "we ignoring things in the show" when you seems to eager ignore how the show fuck up his own canon.

And no, im not ignoring, im pointing out how stupid it is, and since they compressed the timeline it could be Gandalf even if it does not follow up the lore

[rhorle]

And yes the show gave plenty of hints about him being Gandalf, like i said, he uses the same "shadow" trick to scare the girl like he did with Bilbo, he does again with the fireflies, all of this are hints about Gandalf and it could be just a bait and switch

Or you know they are using "common wizard things" to show case the character is special? You keep calling him gandalf just so you can complain how stupid it is that he is gandalf. When he likely isn't Gandalf but a Blue if it is a known wizard at all.

Its obnoxious how you get so worked up about "we ignoring things in the show" when you seems to eager ignore how the show fuck up his own canon.

The show choose to compress Tolkien's lore. It isn't ignoring that to point out what they are doing and why complaining about something is silly when it is a know fact the time line was compressed. The compressed timeline doesn't mean it could be Gandalf because they didn't compress the third age. You would know this if you actually cared about Tolkien's "canon".

[Syegfryed]

Or you know they are using "common wizard things" to show case the character is special? You keep calling him gandalf just so you can complain how stupid it is that he is gandalf. When he likely isn't Gandalf but a Blue if it is a known wizard at all.

Or you know, they are using the thing gandalf did in the movies, on purpose, you would know if you actually watched then, or you are just pretending it is not because no arguments.

The show choose to compress Tolkien's lore. It isn't ignoring that to point out what they are doing and why complaining about something is silly when it is a know fact the time line was compressed. The compressed timeline doesn't mean it could be Gandalf because they didn't compress the third age. You would know this if you actually cared about Tolkien's "canon".

Are you a parrot? we know they compressed the timeline, pointing out how bad it is is not ignoring like you pretend it to be.

Yeah it could not be gandalf, but it might as well be, so you are complaining for the sake of complain pretending he is not an option when the show blatantly hint him as Gandalf.

[Veggie50]

It means the timeline is all over the place cause him and Gandalf were not supposed to be there yet.

Ackxually…

Olorin did visit middle earth before his mission against sauron. It is unclear if that would’ve been in old man form though, since that was a specific handicap thing