1. #5481
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekko View Post
    This show just gets more frustrating to watch each week, since it's LotR I'll continue to torture myself.
    And that's why we don't get new good IP, only terrible rehashes of established IP - it seems to work

  2. #5482
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    And that's why we don't get new good IP, only terrible rehashes of established IP - it seems to work
    I think also this is partly due to laziness on behalf of the viewership. There are a lot of good original shows coming out from all over the world you just have to be bothered to discover them and also read subtitles. I might watch the occasional western TV show but generally I have given up with them, there's a lot better stuff out there worthy of my time.

  3. #5483
    Quote Originally Posted by frn1 View Post
    Adar: I need you to deliver this very important message.
    Also Adar: Heres your weapons, because i will not tell my orcs this and they will try to kill you, GL.

    I guess its not only the orcs but also their arrows that cant stand the sun because they just went up in thin air.

    Galadriel.. she used like what, 1/20 of her strength and effort to dispose of 4-5 numenorean guards. They could at least have shown her struggle a bit, take a punch or something. It doesnt do the character any favors being this overpowered. She just gets more unlikeable for every episode.
    I can handle a character being overpowered but at least present it in a believable way. That prison scene was laughable.

    Also wasn't it funny that all of the orcs suddenly ran out of arrows when they reached the edge of the wood while Arondir and co stood defenceless in open ground...

  4. #5484
    If that watchtower is overseeing the Southlands that are to become Mordor, it might be intended to become Barad-Dur itself later in the show?
    "Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outwards, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang on Essays on Mind and Matter

  5. #5485
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Also wasn't it funny that all of the orcs suddenly ran out of arrows when they reached the edge of the wood while Arondir and co stood defenceless in open ground...
    They didn't though. They are shown to be shooting arrows again. It is just hard to see because of the sun. There is even closed caption of "[arrows whooshing]". 51:05 if you want to check yourself. The arrows start after the orcs roar and Arondir turns to help the two others run.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    If that watchtower is overseeing the Southlands that are to become Mordor, it might be intended to become Barad-Dur itself later in the show?
    They are non-canon locations Amazon created just for the show so I doubt it would be Barad-dur. All Amazon gave is east of the mountains that border western Mordor. I'd imagine it would be south of Minas Morgul in order to remove it from any canon location but it could be anywhere along the mountain range. Unless I missed where Amazon gave more clarification.
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  6. #5486
    The orcs reach the edge of the wood and Arondir & co stand there for a full half minute while the orcs snarl at them. It's not until just before they decide to turn and run that a couple of arrows conveniently miss them. Just another poorly done moment in the show.

  7. #5487
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    The orcs reach the edge of the wood and Arondir & co stand there for a full half minute while the orcs snarl at them. It's not until just before they decide to turn and run that a couple of arrows conveniently miss them. Just another poorly done moment in the show.
    Yeah, it was kinda silly. Even if you think your opponents are having a hard time aiming you don't just chill out in the open for no reason.

    I guess it was supposed to be all dramatic with the sun rising and whatnot, but eh.

  8. #5488
    It's only a minor thing really. It happens in lots of shows/movies. Even in the original Fellowship film when they're escaping Moria the orc archers always miss. It's one of those BS things that you just sort have to roll your eyes at, but I wish the directors would actually have the good guys wounded to add a bit of realism to it.

  9. #5489
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Right. How do you think something like that can be missed when Amazon is writing the story. It isn't written by Tolkien so of course things are being created for the show. Just as Jackson took liberties for his two trilogies.

    The tower is a defensible base of operations for the area.
    The 'tower' is shown in posters and the series as an observation point to provide early warning of an attack. But OK, when did we see that happen in this series where the tower was used as a base of defense? We didn't. The elves got captured, meaning whatever it was designed to do, ultimately it failed. The fact that it happened off screen means we can only guess how it happened and whether or not the tower actually served that purpose or not as you describe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It can offer a vantage point but doesn't fail just because it doesn't see every last inch of land they oversea. That doesn't even happen in the real world and it wasn't until the advent of satellite imagery that it became a real capability. An alternative to Eregion? What are you smoking? A small elven outpost is not an alternative to Eregion. We actually have Eregion shown on screen. Lmao.

    Have you even watched the show or are you just argue from influencers and articles?
    It is an alternative to Eregion becasue the core of the narrative of the creation of the rings of power was centered on Eregion. That is where most of the key events took place and Eregion was created explicitly for the purpose of being a bulwark against Sauron. This is why he targeted it and used it against them. Therefore, if they have made up this new tower as a key part of the narrative for this part of the second age as a new bulwark against Sauron then it is an alternative to simply focusing on the story of Eregion as already told in the lore. But this series is more interested in keeping things mysterious than actually telling a story. So the tower didn't serve its purpose in the world as it should because the writers needed to keep the presence of the orcs a secret, while at the same time showing the audience that the orcs are very real and a threat. But in showing the audience that the orcs are real and a threat, they are also telling the world of middle earth as well, which is why they had to come up with these contrivances to keep their presence still somehow secret.

    Also, keep in mind that Sauron was able to appear at Eregion because the Haradrim and other forces he was amassing in his armies were kept far to the South and out of view of Eregion, the Elves and the Numenoreans. It was a key reason why he was able to arrive at Eregion in disguise and not be suspected(except by Galadriel). Once he is revealed as Suaron, he musters his forces to attack and there is no more secrecy. So the secrecy in the original lore served a logical purpose and moved the story along. The secrecy here in this series really serves noting and doesn't really move anything along because their activities don't signal Sauron's return to the wider world. And it cannot because it would be hard to have Sauron show up in disguise while having his presence revealed and known to all in middle earth. They would be wary and on their defenses. But we will see how this series plays out.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-09-20 at 01:58 PM.

  10. #5490
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    It is an alternative to Eregion becasue the core of the narrative of the creation of the rings of power was centered on Eregion. That is where most of the key events took place and Eregion was created explicitly for the purpose of being a bulwark against Sauron.
    So the replacement for Ost-in-Edhil is a tower in Mordor even though the show has shown Ost-in-Edhil, in Eregion, and shown a tower being built there. A tower whose purpose is to forge the rings of power as stated by the show. Again you either have not watched the show or are blinded by your dislike into creating your own delusion.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  11. #5491
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    The orcs reach the edge of the wood and Arondir & co stand there for a full half minute while the orcs snarl at them. It's not until just before they decide to turn and run that a couple of arrows conveniently miss them. Just another poorly done moment in the show.
    The arrows that are shot also land where they stood...
    Would be more powerful if they just kept shooting and the arrows landed quite a bit infront of them before they move to signal they are at least far enough away.

    Then again, turning and stare at them is just for the sun shot anyway, so it wouldn't really save it.

  12. #5492
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's only a minor thing really. It happens in lots of shows/movies. Even in the original Fellowship film when they're escaping Moria the orc archers always miss. It's one of those BS things that you just sort have to roll your eyes at, but I wish the directors would actually have the good guys wounded to add a bit of realism to it.
    It's a thing in movies that the bad guys always miss. Like that scene in the movie Taken when Liam Neeson dives behind a couch to avoid a hail of bullets from an automatic, even though he was standing right in the open when the goon begins firing.

  13. #5493
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Why is it important for you to value them so much? They're background characters that play a minor role in the story right at the beginning. The show isn't going to spend time detailing the background of everyone who wanders on screen for more than 3 minutes.
    The show hasn't done anything to establish an emotional connection for us to see what Elves are capable of (Outside of Galadriel). Their capabilities are being grandfathered from an expectation that people have watched LOTR and know how capable they are in warfare.

    We see this reinforced again in Arondir's arc as well. My point is, the show is doing them dirty by not establishing them as being capable at all. Zero moments where they accomplish anything.

    One simple scene, like PJ's opening Elf scene where the warriors swing their blades and chop down Orcs, would do wonders in establishing this. That's all I'm pointing out. The show lacks any connection to the Elves being powerful or important, and if someone were coming to this show having not seen LOTR O could see their idea of an Elf being quite different if taking the show's presentation at face value.

    Everyone here can say 'you don't need it it's unimportant' but it actually is quite important because it'a a first impression, and they shouldn't be taking it for granted.

    Just ANY example of accomplishment in the first episode would do, while I use the team as an example because.. they're already there and the setup of her having a team is already prime for showing off... Teamwork. Something they completely missed out on really.

    Instead we have everything set up to fail, and I feel like that's been the underlying tone of this entire series so far. And it:s not enjoyable at all. I think that's why I only like the Elrond and Dwarf arc and don't find any interest in the other arcs. They're just mired by poor writing, lack of world building (doesn't feel authentic) and the overall tone is one of incompetence or complacency all around, with the main characters simply failing upwards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Yes, Theo would be dead and the black sword hilt in the hands of Adar.
    Theo has plot armor. Even if Arondir weren't there, he'd survive, because they intentionally have him as a POV character. At most I'd say captured by Adar and the black sword taken, but he wouldn't be dead. I mean, considering the way the story goes, that could still happen even now.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-20 at 04:58 PM.

  14. #5494
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So the replacement for Ost-in-Edhil is a tower in Mordor even though the show has shown Ost-in-Edhil, in Eregion, and shown a tower being built there. A tower whose purpose is to forge the rings of power as stated by the show. Again you either have not watched the show or are blinded by your dislike into creating your own delusion.
    What I said was that Eregion was the center of the story of this era in the second age as a town built by the Elves in order to strengthen their defenses against Sauron's return. And it is to that town that Sauron went in disguise to create the rings of power. It isn't about a tower in Eregion, it is about Eregion itself as a focal point of the ENTIRE story of this part of the second age and the conflict with Sauron through his deception. There was no "other" place outside of Eregion that was the focal point of this narrative in this part of the second age. They are trying to make this "tower" a new focal point in Amazon's story separate from Eregion because like I said before it is an alternative to Eregion itself as that focal point. I am talking about how the story was written meaning why the town Eregion exists in the first place as a core to this narrative of the rings of power in Tolkien's lore and comparing that to why this tower exists in Amazon's rings of power as some alternative narrative to Eregion by itself as a focal point.

  15. #5495
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    What I said was that Eregion was the center of the story of this era in the second age as a town built by the Elves in order to strengthen their defenses against Sauron's return.
    Eregion isn't a city. It is the region. The city you are talking about is Ost-in-Edhil. You are the one that is claiming the tower in Mordor is a replacement for a tower in Ost-in-Edhil. It isn't. The show has put a focus on Ost-in-Edhil and the forging of the rings but is establishing other story lines in the process. The watch tower where the elves were watching humans of mordor is not a replacement for anything. We have the elves ask the dwarves to help build a tower. A tower in Eregion. Why would Amazon have dwarves build a tower to forge rings of power if they were using the tower in Mordor for that purpose

    Sauron was building his forces prior to the rings being made so this is what the show is hinting at with the Mordor scenes. About 100 years after the rings were forged there was a war between Sauron and Elves. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War_of_...ves_and_Sauron. So even without Amazon compressing the time line he would still have an army around that time.

    You don't know the Tolkien lore. You don't know the show lore. Just stop before you keep arguing things not even present.
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  16. #5496
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Theo has plot armor. Even if Arondir weren't there, he'd survive, because they intentionally have him as a POV character. At most I'd say captured by Adar and the black sword taken, but he wouldn't be dead. I mean, considering the way the story goes, that could still happen even now.
    This is amazing. You can remove a character and it won't change the story as long as you change the story to cover the changes his absence makes. You can remove Pippin from LotR if Merry looks in the Palantir and Denethor doesn't try to sacrfice Faramir. You can remove Sam if you remember Frodo has plot armour. I think I love this more than your obsession with the capabilities of background characters who leave the series entirely before the end of the first episode.

  17. #5497
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    This is amazing. You can remove a character and it won't change the story as long as you change the story to cover the changes his absence makes. You can remove Pippin from LotR if Merry looks in the Palantir and Denethor doesn't try to sacrfice Faramir. You can remove Sam if you remember Frodo has plot armour. I think I love this more than your obsession with the capabilities of background characters who leave the series entirely before the end of the first episode.
    If you haven't been paying attention to the greater criticism I have of this entire series being paced poorly and the narrative moving slowly, then yeah, that is the whole point.

    And yes, things can be cut and edited to make a better movie if it makes sense. Perhaps not Pippin and Merry being cut, but say let's cut Radagast and Tauriel cut from the Hobbit. The Hobbit could be paced better as a single 4-hour Hobbit movie instead of a 12-hour epic that's full of filler. And I will absolutely tout the Maple cut of the Hobbit that edits out most of the non-book material from the Hobbit trilogy into one 4-hour movie as a superior product over the full trilogy. It's paced better, the story flows better, and I prefer it over what PJ gave us in the theatres.

    http://www.maple-films.com/downloads.html


    Similar fan edits have been done for other TV series. There's a fan edit of Obi-wan that cut out a bunch of filler and re-edits scenes in different order to make the show flow better. I'm just hoping someone out there does the same for Book of Boba Fett and gets rid of the Vespa Gang altogether and maybe we can see a Boba Fett series that I would consider worth watching.


    The idea that Rings of Power's story can only be told in the way that the show already presents itself is only a matter of perspective. Even if a fan edit would be an 'adaptation of an adaptation', the general story can be retained, if not improved upon, with decent editing. I mean even internally, a film goes through so many different iterations and variations that there's no single film that's being made; there are hundreds of 'cuts' with the audience merely getting the single latest version. And with digital releases... companies are even making edits after release. And then there's stuff like Director's Cuts, with an extreme example being something like Zack Snyder's Justice League (which I actually thought was pretty good for what it was. Not my type of movie, but was enjoyable and made sense). Even the Peter Jackson's Extended cuts are vastly different products from the theatrical releases.

    I don't believe that the story can be told in only one way. That's why I come at this from a critical 'what could be improved' mindset, rather than just settle for 'well this is the way the story has to be'.

    In my opinion, Arondir's arc is merely introduction and setup for his character's 'backstory' for an intended greater role in the future. And that being said, I wouldn't actually mind if they merely introduced this guy in the 2nd season as a 'Survivor who went through bad shit in the Southlands', instead of devoting an entire POV arc in this season right now. And I'll be clear to say that this is based on the 4-episodes we have so far, as I am definitely going to reserve judgement for a full release of the season. My criticism comes from this show being paced too slowly, and there being too many POV plots to follow. Based on what we've seen so far, I think parts of the show could be trimmed down or even cut out to tell a more cohesive narrative.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-20 at 11:33 PM.

  18. #5498
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's only a minor thing really. It happens in lots of shows/movies. Even in the original Fellowship film when they're escaping Moria the orc archers always miss. It's one of those BS things that you just sort have to roll your eyes at, but I wish the directors would actually have the good guys wounded to add a bit of realism to it.
    i don't think the arrows missing is a problem, but the orcs being made vampires afraid of the sun not going for then

  19. #5499
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's only a minor thing really. It happens in lots of shows/movies. Even in the original Fellowship film when they're escaping Moria the orc archers always miss. It's one of those BS things that you just sort have to roll your eyes at, but I wish the directors would actually have the good guys wounded to add a bit of realism to it.
    The first thing I always think of is the stormtroopers from Star Wars original trilogy... worst aim ever. I mean orcs with crude weapons I can believe being a sloppy aim, but trained soliders? :P
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  20. #5500
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i don't think the arrows missing is a problem, but the orcs being made vampires afraid of the sun not going for then
    Orcs have been shown to be reluctant to go in the sunlight. Without a superior in the group to force the issue it fits with Tolkien's work that they might decide not to.
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