Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Khaza-R]

Its not wrong to like a story and even claim its better than what tolkien himself could do, tolkiens books are full of holes and plenty of bad writing but you can still enjoy something regardless of if other ppl think its good or not.

If the company doesnt have the rights to do the story as tolkien has wrote it then you cant complain they are doing it thier own way because they have to do it a different way, plus tolkien has not done a story in the age where the tv series takes place so they have plenty of freedom to fill out places that need be.

The tv series is good, your opinion on the otherhand is just that an opinion.

You have to be smoking some heavy crackrock to think the writing of this show is even remotely comparable to Tolkien. At this point Stephanie Meyer can write characters with more depth and motivation than these showrunners.

I assume season 1 is going to end with the rings of power being made and Sauron being defeated by the combined forces of elves and Numenoreans?

With 3 episodes left thats going to be tough to fit in. Its also after this that Sauron retreats to Mordor, which will then be followed immediately by the first wizards (Radagast and Saruman) arriving on middle earth...

Aren't there only 2 more episodes left this season? Wouldn't that be kind of rushed?

[rhorle]

it's lost over 70% of total audience since episode 1

Do you have proof of that?

[kenn9530]

based on every metric currently available, it would disagree with that sentiment entirely, it's not a good show, it's lost over 70% of total audience since episode 1, and has seen Amazon scramble in a comical attempt to salvage what they can by deleting negative reviews censoring anybody with a bad word to say on the subject, that's not my opinion, these are immutable facts, while you can not like them, you cannot change them.

secondly, i have no qualms with a company coming in and taking the bare bones of what was written and expanding upon it, but nothing in this show is in anyway shape or form remotely close to that of Tolkien himself in both essence or in actuality, which only helps reinforce the notion that these amateur showrunners who wrote this terrible script are inept at their craft and are unfit to be given the responsibility that such a project would demand.

lastly, if they weren't able to get the rights to the material they needed, they should have appointed people who had a decent enough reputation and were capable of the task to interpret and invent alongside what already exists, as it stands this badly written fan fiction is so far removed from anything resembling Tolkien it's a farce.

You are clearly unable to get the correct information on metrics then plus all the data is not available so you are unable to base anything of the small bits of information you have access to so no its not lost 70% of its total audience, not everyone watches a tv series on day 1 or until its completely out so there are 10s of millions of ppl still to watch the show.

The show has already proven without no doubt its a good show, its a 4/5 show because lets face it the 1/10 ratings are just LOTRs hardcore fans who got thier feelings hurt because they didnt get what they wanted.

- - - Updated - - -

You have to be smoking some heavy crackrock to think the writing of this show is even remotely comparable to Tolkien. At this point Stephanie Meyer can write characters with more depth and motivation than these showrunners.



Aren't there only 2 more episodes left this season? Wouldn't that be kind of rushed?

Its just a simple fact its a good solid 4/5 show, you are not qualified to judge either acting performance or writing performance, tolkien himself has shown plenty of what can be called bad writing decisions and poor story plots, the films also have plenty wrong with them but you can still enjoy something because nothing is supposed to be perfect.

[minteK917]

I dont care about any agenda shit people claim. This show has one massive problem and Im just gona wait until all 5 season to watch it now. They are shitting over everything that could be cool about watching that era and moving the time line in a way that are are skipping literally best fucking moments to show on screen. Instead we are wasting time with fucking hobbits wannabes. They are making Númenor a fucking joke and everything tied to it is getting skipped or closed over is m guess. They wasted 5 episodes to do fuck all and no rings in sight, not even sight of the character that fucking make those rings. They have 3 episodes left for their first season to even begin their actual story.

You can find my earlier post in this thread, I honestly simply thought the problem was they made it a 8h movie and cut it, so the first 2 episodes had a reason to be a bore fest even if its really not how you should adapt shit to series format. Now I see that I was mistaken. I see the plan now, they are just keeping all the good moment for other seasons to milk that shit for 5 seasons, since after a first season this slow the hype will die down. So hey lets keep cool shit that happens early and cut it into every season so we have hype moment after season 1 to bait people even if we have to rewrite the entire time line for it lol.

[Biomega]

Its just a simple fact its a good solid 4/5 show

What is that "simple fact" based on, please? You seem very confident of this very concrete number-based assessment - can you back this up by anything, or is this just "dude trust me" rearing it's head?

[Khaza-R]

Its just a simple fact its a good solid 4/5 show, you are not qualified to judge either acting performance or writing performance, tolkien himself has shown plenty of what can be called bad writing decisions and poor story plots, the films also have plenty wrong with them but you can still enjoy something because nothing is supposed to be perfect.

That's not a fact its a opinion. I am glad you think you're Roger Ebert or something and can make such definitive statements. Evidently not just about this show but about one of the most widely reviewed and discussed piece of fiction ever. But the reality is any person is qualified to judge this show and its mediocre writing who's picked up a book or ever vacantly stared at a TV show. Any person with a brain can see through the really hackneyed script. Whether you enjoy the who or not is really just a personal preference at this point if you can overlook the writing and just enjoy the undeniably very beautiful visual spectacle this show is.

[bledgor]

I assume season 1 is going to end with the rings of power being made and Sauron being defeated by the combined forces of elves and Numenoreans?

With 3 episodes left thats going to be tough to fit in. Its also after this that Sauron retreats to Mordor, which will then be followed immediately by the first wizards (Radagast and Saruman) arriving on middle earth...

Naw, season will end with the rings starting to be crafted, I bet the last scene is maybe seeing the one ring being pulled out of a mold or some such. No way we get Sauron actually fighting, only big battle/fighting we will get is next episode at the tower (mini helms deep) and a final battle with the orcs/Adar vs Galadriel/Numenor.

Also Radagast and Saruman didn't arrive in Middle Earth till the 3rd age, they could have the 2nd blue wizard come as when they arrived has changed. Then again considering we have the rings being made while Elendil/Isildur are alive and the Durin's Bane awakening in this age instead of thousands of years into the 3rd age who fucking knows.

That's not a fact its a opinion. I am glad you think you're Roger Ebert or something and can make such definitive statements. Evidently not just about this show but about one of the most widely reviewed and discussed piece of fiction ever. But the reality is any person is qualified to judge this show and its mediocre writing who's picked up a book or ever vacantly stared at a TV show. Any person with a brain can see through the really hackneyed script. Whether you enjoy the who or not is really just a personal preference at this point if you can overlook the writing and just enjoy the undeniably very beautiful visual spectacle this show is.

Mate don't engage Kenn, he is the guy that rabidly defends Star Citizens, not worth it. Not to mention anyone that calls this show great while shitting on Tolkien is a pretty obvious troll.

[kenn9530]

What is that "simple fact" based on, please? You seem very confident of this very concrete number-based assessment - can you back this up by anything, or is this just "dude trust me" rearing it's head?

All the current metrics available back the show being good so it is a simple fact. Your opinion does not change the actual metrics of way more ppl enjoy it compared to the opposite.

- - - Updated - - -

That's not a fact its a opinion. I am glad you think you're Roger Ebert or something and can make such definitive statements. Evidently not just about this show but about one of the most widely reviewed and discussed piece of fiction ever. But the reality is any person is qualified to judge this show and its mediocre writing who's picked up a book or ever vacantly stared at a TV show. Any person with a brain can see through the really hackneyed script. Whether you enjoy the who or not is really just a personal preference at this point if you can overlook the writing and just enjoy the undeniably very beautiful visual spectacle this show is.

Its not an opinion im backed by facts that way more ppl rate it highly rather than fake 1 star reviews.

[minteK917]

Naw, season will end with the rings starting to be crafted, I bet the last scene is maybe seeing the one ring being pulled out of a mold or some such. No way we get Sauron actually fighting, only big battle/fighting we will get is next episode at the tower (mini helms deep) and a final battle with the orcs/Adar vs Galadriel/Numenor.

Also Radagast and Saruman didn't arrive in Middle Earth till the 3rd age, they could have the 2nd blue wizard come as when they arrived has changed. Then again considering we have the rings being made while Elendil/Isildur are alive and the Durin's Bane awakening in this age instead of thousands of years into the 3rd age who fucking knows.



Mate don't engage Kenn, he is the guy that rabidly defends Star Citizens, not worth it. Not to mention anyone that calls this show great while shitting on Tolkien is a pretty obvious troll.

I bet theres not one ring made by the end of this season. No idea what the fuck they are thinking skipping so much shit and then spreading it in 5 seasons. They have guaranteed 5 season they could have literally gone through every proper steps. They just think audience are fucking babies, again, so my guess is the entirety of those 5 seasons and the entire Era will be a couple of months in their time line. Im pretty sure this is what they are shooting for after 5 episodes. "We cant have time skips in our show, audience wont understand, our writers cant figure out how to show this. Fuck it this entire era last 8 months."

[Biomega]

All the current metrics available back the show being good so it is a simple fact.

So which metrics, exactly. Give me concrete info please, not "the metrics". Which ones.

[rhorle]

So which metrics, exactly. Give me concrete info please, not "the metrics". Which ones.

Any non-user score? On RT and Meta it is 84 and 71 according to critics. Wouldn't that put it in the "good" category? Imdb total rating is 6.9 which dropped from 7.2 earlier in the season. I would think a 6.9 is still in "good", right? Though I'm not sure where RT gets their critic score from since they don't list any "professional" reviews like Meta does.

[kenn9530]

So which metrics, exactly. Give me concrete info please, not "the metrics". Which ones.

Any metric you search for proves the show is good, a 1 min search proves the show is highly rated and the metrics are only brought down a little from clearly inaccurate ratings because some fans are upset while many other fans are more than happy with RoP.

The show would be in the 8/10 plus ratings if not for inaccurate reviews, but anything 6/10 plus is still a good show, 8/10 plus is in the excellent range.

[Kumorii]

I assume season 1 is going to end with the rings of power being made and Sauron being defeated by the combined forces of elves and Numenoreans?

With 3 episodes left thats going to be tough to fit in. Its also after this that Sauron retreats to Mordor, which will then be followed immediately by the first wizards (Radagast and Saruman) arriving on middle earth...

Highly doubt the rings are gonna be made in season 1.
The forges will be done in at the end of season 1. The rings and the process and Saurons influence on them needs to be established and it need more than 3 episodes to be done well imo. Especially with the pace the show is going

[minteK917]

Any non-user score? On RT and Meta it is 84 and 71 according to critics. Wouldn't that put it in the "good" category? Imdb total rating is 6.9 which dropped from 7.2 earlier in the season. I would think a 6.9 is still in "good", right? Though I'm not sure where RT gets their critic score from since they don't list any "professional" reviews like Meta does.

RT score is not a score. It means 84% of the reviewers did not give a review under 50%. Im not sure why anybody even read RT score lols. All it tells you is that only 16% of the professional review gave it under 2.5/5 stars or 5/10 reviews.

[rhorle]

The forges will be done in at the end of season 1. The rings and the process and Saurons influence on them needs to be established and it need more than 3 episodes to be done well imo.

They have already been setting up an influence with how they are lying/misdirecting Elrond and Galadriel. There is the blight as well. However they can easily forge the rings first 16 at the end and explore what you say when Celebrimbor forges his rings in Season 2. There was 90 years between between the first 16 and the next 3 greater rings. Another 10 years for the One Ring.

So Season 2 can open with the betrayal and cover the War. Season 3-4 cover the creation of the ring wraiths and Season 5 will obviously be the War of the Last Alliance.

[Mace]

On Galadriel, I started wondering wether her characterization could be drawn from a conscious homage to or an inconscious inspiration from Greta Thunberg...

I guess it would be in line with the tendency of inserting modern topics...

Makes me wonder too why do that? Sure there are current trends, and they may think to capitalise on that by injecting that into their work, but this is Tolkien's work and world they are using and it has certain things celarly defined the author doesn't want changed, - people may be fine about constantly changing spider man or batman or so called modernising or making current other people's work, but Tolkien is sacred to a lot of fans, and many of us who like it are of this modern generation, born long after the books were written and enjoy them for the world they present regardless of current trends oor our current culture, and regardless of what we identify as.

You want to see Tolkien, but why do they feel the need to change someone else's work so much? Is it arrogance? or just a Hollywood trend - they think they are making it better? those changes just ruined a lot of what was actually rather quaint and distinguished about Moiddle Earth world of Tolkien. Which is why people like me despite being woke (not super woke - those guys have now become cultlists) are put off by the new series even though their a parts of it I like very much.

But then this same company felt it was fine to make even more woke, an already woke enough Wheel of Time - so I wonder if it's more a company policy Amazon studios wnats to promote or live by /shrug

I don't think they honour or respect Tolkien enough - those showrunners probably don't respect anyone and feel they can just up and change anything and their version will be better.. clearly not..

[Biomega]

The show would be in the 8/10 plus ratings if not for inaccurate reviews, but anything 6/10 plus is still a good show, 8/10 plus is in the excellent range.

But you didn't just say "good show", you said 4/5.

And now we've gone to "well it WOULD be 8/10 without reviews that I don't count" and "6/10 is still good!".

Doesn't seem like something you'd say about a "simple fact", does it.

[kenn9530]

But you didn't just say "good show", you said 4/5.

And now we've gone to "well it WOULD be 8/10 without reviews that I don't count" and "6/10 is still good!".

Doesn't seem like something you'd say about a "simple fact", does it.

All metrics prove the show is good even with BS reviews, if you deny that you are just lying to yourself, you also cant deny that many of the lowest reviews are actually inaccurate, some of the worst shows i have seen i wouldnt give a 1 star rating or a 1/10.

- - - Updated - - -

You want to see Tolkien, but why do they feel the need to change someone else's work so much? Is it arrogance? or just a Hollywood trend - they think they are making it better? those changes just ruined a lot of what was actually rather quaint and distinguished about Moiddle Earth world of Tolkien. Which is why people like me despite being woke (not super woke - those guys have now become cultlists) are put off by the new series even though their a parts of it I like very much.

But then this same company felt it was fine to make even more woke, an already woke enough Wheel of Time - so I wonder if it's more a company policy Amazon studios wnats to promote or live by /shrug

I don't think they honour or respect Tolkien enough - those showrunners probably don't respect anyone and feel they can just up and change anything and their version will be better.. clearly not..

If the company doesnt have certain rights to do a certain part of the story then changes have to happen, its nothing about arrogance its about not getting sued by using copyright materials they are not allowed to use in the first place

[Mace]

If the company doesnt have certain rights to do a certain part of the story then changes have to happen, its nothing about arrogance its about not getting sued by using copyright materials they are not allowed to use in the first place

I think those rights just prevented them from using certain characters or events that are described in specific books, it doesn't stop them representing Tolkien's work faithfully or accurately, and it certainly doesn't mean they have to make Tolkien's work reflect current day trends or remake his characters to be more like what they think modern feminine heroes should be.


If you're doing Tolkien's world, shouldn't you stick faithfully to it?

I guess you can change what you want (at least within the bounds of the licences agreement.), but doesn't mean fans who you want to win over are going to like it when you change their characters and races in a bad way. But then the showrunners probably thought all the changes were in a good way.. and that's what you get when you bring your ideology to the table. you may think it's good, and your arrogance is what makes you assume everyone believes your view of the world is good.

IF you had stuck to the author's view and basis which is what is popular after all, not your ideology or world view, you'd get far less complaints - people of all kind of ideologies love Tolkien's work, even though they cannot identify with the world view or identities it's based on or agree or with them per say.


"IT felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like," - says Lindsey Weber - an executive producer

This is a direct quote, they were not interested in showing Tolkien's work, but adapting it to reflect today's world which is very different from it. Most people, today's peole, don't want to see today's world in every thing, and still enjoy Tolkien's work immensely even though it's not today's world and doesn't reflect it - and this oges for a lot of black, gay, young, people

[kenn9530]

I think those rights just prevented them from using certain characters or events that are described in specific books, it doesn't stop them representing Tolkien's work faithfully or accurately, and it certainly doesn't mean they have to make Tolkien's work reflect current day trends or remake his characters to be more like what they think modern feminine heroes should be.


If you're doing Tolkien's world, shouldn't you stick faithfully to it?

I guess you can change what you want (at least within the bounds of the licences agreement.), but doesn't mean fans who you want to win over are going to like it when you change their characters and races in a bad way. But then the showrunners probably thought all the changes were in a good way.. and that's what you get when you bring your ideology to the table. you may think it's good, and your arrogance is what makes you assume everyone believes your view of the world is good.

IF you had stuck to the author's view and basis which is what is popular after all, not your ideology or world view, you'd get far less complaints - people of all kind of ideologies love Tolkien's work, even though they cannot identify with the world view or identities it's based on or agree or with them per say.


"IT felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like," - says Lindsey Weber - an executive producer

This is a direct quote, they were not interested in showing Tolkien's work, but adapting it to reflect today's world which is very different from it. Most people, today's peole, don't want to see today's world in every thing, and still enjoy Tolkien's work immensely even though it's not today's world and doesn't reflect it - and this oges for a lot of black, gay, young, people

The way a book writer writes is also not always going to hold up for a film/tv series either, anyone expecting tolkien was expecting way too much because hes dead and its impossible to do a film/tv series the same as a book either.

Also the author has not explained every single detail about everything in the LOTR world so there is plenty that is up for changing to suit the requirements for a tv/film series.

The quote you posted has nothing to do with adapting to todays world views, its actually about showing what middle earth looked like in that age, nothing to do with racial casting or anything like that, if you find a suitable actor that can fill the role nothing else matters, especially since not everything is set in stone by tolkiens own words.