Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit
Everything said here is subjective, none of what you said is true, what is best is entirely subjective itself, there is no definitive best movie/book/song/art If someone wants to think Robert Jordan is 'peak literature' they can, you cannot just tell them they are wrong because you think differently... a lesson this forum needs to learn..
RIP: My run playing Blizzard games . 1994 - 2020
Do you think art criticism is thus an invalid field of study? Do you disagree with scholars who argue Dostoevsky is one of the top 5 (at worst) most influential novelists of all time?
Can you not look at The Room and separate it from The Godfather, since all taste is subjective?
I will die on the hill that Dostoevsky is objectively a better author than Robert Jordan.
The system we have for show reviews is ultimately flawed to begin with, so no it is not comparable to book reviews since books aren't released on a chapter-per-week basis with reviews made based on what is released and passed off as a permanent score of the entire book.
Would the professional critics be right in evaluating a score for the entire book based on the first couple chapters?
One of the biggest problems I have with Rings of Power right now is its seeming lack of forethought in its presentation. We're 5 episodes in and the plot is still moving at a crawl, and the plot filled with sudden reveals that don't have any proper setup and payoff to them. None of this could be determined from a review of the first two episodes alone. Yet that's how most critic reviews for this show are determined. Amazon did not release an early preview of the entire series for critics, only the first two episodes like everyone else ended up getting day 1. And yeah, the first two episodes were pretty solid. Benefit of the doubt is granted to a slower paced story that is building up all its set. That wouldn't be excused for any review 5 episodes in.
Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-28 at 04:30 PM.
Its not subjective if more ppl like something than not then its considered good, you having bad taste doesnt change that simple reality, when someone claims something is bad just because they dont like it that just shows a lack of personal integrity and inablity to give an accurate judgement based on personal bias.
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Criticism is fine. You can argue an opinion, you can discuss and debate, but to tell someone their opinion is wrong definitively is not it.
Like saying "I think pickled sandwiches are the best' and then someone says, 'you are wrong', like you do not know him, why is he wrong? lol. We playing some 4D mind chess? :P
Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-28 at 04:37 PM.
RIP: My run playing Blizzard games . 1994 - 2020
There's no real difference other than you applying objectivity to one and subjectivity to another. 'X is better than Y' can also be contextually subjective, as a matter of discussing the merits and quality of a product. You can use those words and make those arguments without merely making it about your preference.
There's plenty of sequels that I personally don't prefer over the original, but I could regard as being better than the original in its overall quality and execution. I think The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is a better movie than A Fistful of Dollars, but I prefer Fistful because I liked the story more (Yojimbo).
Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-28 at 05:03 PM.
Well more int eh sense of saying for example 'I think X movie is better than the more popular Y movie'. That's his opinion, he is not wrong to think that. but you can argue and debate him on why you disagree, but you cannot tell him he is wrong.
At least that's the perspective I am coming from. The more harmless side :P
Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-28 at 05:17 PM.
RIP: My run playing Blizzard games . 1994 - 2020
In a technical sense you are correct. However if it is still good to a large group then doesn't that make it good? Take a song for example. You don't like it but 10 million do. Is that song good or is it bad? What are the thresholds for good and bad? Isn't something that is successful good by virtue of being successful? Society even has phrases such as "It is so bad it is good" which further complicates these types of discussions, right?
Because it really is subjective and the technical aspects that can be objectively ruled are often times of little importance.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-28 at 05:16 PM.
I agree with you that you shouldn't tell anyone their opinion is wrong, or worse. However, the lines aren't always that clear.
first of all, many people conflate opinion and fact. The earth being round(ish) is a fact, not an opinion. Your (not you, personally) opinion of it being flat doesn't make that true.
And second, while taste cannot really be judged other than by standards set by society, there are qualities in movies, art, most form of media, actually, that can be sorted by quality.
Can you enjoy the movie 'The Room'? Yes. And anyone who tells you you can't is wrong. Can you say you think it's better than The Godfather? Yes, sure. Is it, factually, better? If you ignore all factors that are down to personal preference, the subjective ones, and just look the objective factors, like acting, set design, soundtrack, cinematography, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who'd agree with you if you claimed The Room did any of those better than The Godfather.
The middle ground, however, seems to be a lost or dying art. No matter how feverishly one enjoys, or dislikes, something, you shouldn't forget that anyone disagreeing with you isn't necessarily wrong, our out to get you. Trying to see it the way other people might see is a lesson I'd like a lot of people to learn.
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A lot of people like cocaine. A lot of 'trashy' movies have cult followings. Hell, people know some things are bad (for them) and enjoy them anyway, for the sake of them being bad.
There is no such thing as an ultimate 'good' or 'bad' for any one piece of art. That doesn't mean it is beyond criticism. There are things you can rank, or describe as bad or good, in most things. And you can find good and bad both in most things, as well.
Take Rings of Power, for example. For me, it's pretty bad. But that scene with Elrond meeting Durin the 4th again, after 20 years? I thought that was pretty good. It perfectly showed how different the two species and their perception of time was. There were some actual emotions in there.
I generally think people should 'live and let live' when it comes to entertainment. As long as people keep to themselves, whether they like it or dislike something, I'm fine with it. If you go off on someone because he hates/likes a show you hate/like, that's when the issues start to pile up.
And never mislable your opinion as fact.
Why when you said there is not truth about the subject? It really sounds like that is a defense for "I don't like it but others do so it can't be called good under any circumstances".
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Then why are you and others using User Reviews to determine if this show is good or not? Isn't it strange how when it aligns with your viewpoint that such things are acceptable. Yet if it doesn't align with your viewpoint then we can't use those things? Your example of Bill Cosby is that such. His performances do not change just because he was found out to be a bad person, right? So if his show was good back then wouldn't it be good now?
Yet now that your view of an actor has changed so to does your judgement of a show they appeared on. It really shows that good and bad are meaningless and only exist to reinforce whatever narrative about something is being pushed at the time.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen