Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Valysar]

I fear it's gonna be a cancel culture/woke serie...

[BigToast]

I fear it's gonna be a cancel culture/woke serie...

Yea, I mean LOTR really is woke garbage anyways. Remember when Eowyn killed the Witch King with a little help from Merry. "I am no man." Ugh, Tolkien was the original Woker/cancel culture guy.

[Veggie50]

I fear it's gonna be a cancel culture/woke serie...

Right now there’s very little we know…

So why are people condemning it already?

[Dhrizzle]

The Dark Elves don't refer to skin colour in Tolkien's writings. There are no dark skinned elves. Dark Elves are just the elves that never travelled to Valinor and never saw the light of the Two Trees. There is no real physical difference between any of the types of elves.

Not strictly correct, the elves who dwelt in Valinor are generally mightier than those who stayed in Middle-Earth, especially those who were there in the time of the trees. Even Thingol who only visited the Undying Lands was mightier than his kinsfolk, but in part that was thanks to the mutual love between him and Melian.

[Sluvs]

I don't understand this argument. You are basically saying that I cannot criticize one adaptation because another adaptation also had flaws. Does one bad thing cancel out another bad thing? What is the purpose of these cheap apologetics? Do you honestly think that I would go through the effort of posting all of these quotes from Tolkien and Tolkien scholars just because I don't want to see minorities represented in media? If that is the case and you seriously ascribe that position to me, then there really is no need to argue about this because you have already determined my position to be in bad faith.

You are allowed to criticize the adaptation in anyway you desire. I just think it is silly and pointless to try and glimpse what tokien would have thought of this. That and the fact that changing the plot is way worse than casting a black elf. But plot will always change because it is an adaptation. It is inevitable.

My point is, instead of trying to pass judgement of the series now, people should wait and see.

[BigToast]

Right now there’s very little we know…

So why are people condemning it already?

Because there are people (specifically the incels on this board and others) who see a woman in a trailer and is immediately intimidated. Instead of embracing their own immaturity and weakness, they lash out at this "woke culture." And of course content creators jump on this bandwagon to get views.

[Dhrizzle]

I fear it's gonna be a cancel culture/woke serie...

Cancelled for being too woke? The casting has certainly riled up a lot of the easily offended parts of the internet.

[Zemini7]

So much for authenticity. I am still cautiously hopeful.

[DarkAmbient]

Listen, I know that you think you are keeping the sanctity of the text by arguing this but in the end the only thing you are truly arguing for is the lack of representation for black people. You might think you are in a high horse, but it all boils down to: I don't want black elves. Which you have to agree, even in this case, is silly.

This is nonsense. Tolkien didn't create his work as a vehicle for representation and so it shouldn't be treated as such. In fact no art should be treated as such, unless the concept of the art requires it. You want to make a fantasy show that's all about reflecting the modern world then go ahead, there's plenty of room for it. Just don't call it Lord of the Rings.

[bledgor]

Because there are people (specifically the incels on this board and others) who see a woman in a trailer and is immediately intimidated. Instead of embracing their own immaturity and weakness, they lash out at this "woke culture." And of course content creators jump on this bandwagon to get views.

Or perhaps people are tired of Hollywood "adapting" works where they take the name then make countless changes to push an agenda they want instead of providing an as close/realistic portrayal of the story as possible, which is what people want. I mean they didn't even fucking bother to put a beard on the dwarf woman, Galadrial is now Xena warrior princess(also where is Celebron in all this, you know her husband?), Elrond... ugh, and the elves in general all looked like bad tier cosplay, not fucking LOTR elves.

Could it all still come together into some epic story, sure there is a chance. That being said, considering the things they showed us I have little faith, especially since this is basically the first project for the people chosen to develop the series (J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay). If Peter Jackson was at the helm I would have A LOT more faith (yes I realize he made changes, but most of the changes he made I was okay with, "I am no man" and all).

This is nonsense. Tolkien didn't create his work as a vehicle for representation and so it shouldn't be treated as such. In fact no art should be treated as such, unless the concept of the art requires it. You want to make a fantasy show that's all about reflecting the modern world then go ahead, there's plenty of room for it. Just don't call it Lord of the Rings.

Also this, there are plenty of works out there are that better reflect the modern world, and if none of them suit you, anyone is free to create one that does. Stop bastardizing old works to fit the whims of modern directors, I am interested in a faithful presentation of the stories I read, not your garbage vision of it Hollywood.

[Sluvs]

This is nonsense. Tolkien didn't create his work as a vehicle for representation and so it shouldn't be treated as such. In fact no art should be treated as such, unless the concept of the art requires it. You want to make a fantasy show that's all about reflecting the modern world then go ahead, there's plenty of room for it. Just don't call it Lord of the Rings.

Sure, if you single out a paragraph of my entire response, ofc you would think it was nonsense. My point are as following:

A) It is pointless to glimpse what Tolkien would have wanted or not wanted.
B) People are getting too hang up on the representation thing

And most importantly

C) People already decided this sucks by watching a single minute of footage.

And I think that is silly.

[bagina]

"Representation" is one of those nonsensical American inventions that serve no practical purpose. There's no need for black people to be "represented" in LOTR because it's a fantasy. You're not making a documentary about a multicultural country where accurate representation should be the objective. You can be represented by real life people that serve actual purpose, politicians, publicists etc. Putting non-white people when there's no reason to it's just pandering and lip service. A random character of a different race will always be jarring and people should stop pretending otherwise. A white dude in a Chinese tale would be just as out of place. Media don't need representation quotas and shouldn't have them.

[Triceron]

This is nonsense. Tolkien didn't create his work as a vehicle for representation and so it shouldn't be treated as such. In fact no art should be treated as such, unless the concept of the art requires it. You want to make a fantasy show that's all about reflecting the modern world then go ahead, there's plenty of room for it. Just don't call it Lord of the Rings.

What part of there being a black Dwarf Queen is reflective of the modern world?

I get the argument that's trying to be made here, but 'Just don't call it Lord of the Rings' isn't a good reason just because you don't particularly like the changes in the adaptation.

I mean there's tons of stuff from the LOTR movies that got changed that I could criticize too. The Wargs looked more like hyenas than wolves, and weren't very intelligent for that matter. Or they cast a 'pretty boy' to play Kili the Dwarf, who didn't really look like a Dwarf at all. These aren't great changes, but they're part of the adaptations nonetheless. It's an odd argument to say 'you can go ahead and do that just don't call it the Lord of the Rings/Hobbit'

[melodramocracy]

So why are people condemning it already?

The Vanity Fair shots look.... eh. Hopefully they're not indicative of the final product, and I'll be definitely eager to watch it and see what they do with it.

What's certainly being established is that any critique of this show will be instantly categorized as racist.

[Triceron]

"Representation" is one of those nonsensical American inventions that serve no practical purpose. There's no need for black people to be "represented" in LOTR because it's a fantasy. You're not making a documentary about a multicultural country where accurate representation should be the objective. You can be represented by real life people that serve actual purpose, politicians, publicists etc. Putting non-white people when there's no reason to it's just pandering and lip service. A random character of a different race will always be jarring and people should stop pretending otherwise. A white dude in a Chinese tale would be just as out of place. Media don't need representation quotas and shouldn't have them.

I mean you say this, but at the same time you probably have no qualms about Aladdin being depicted by a middle eastern actor even though the character in the original story was Chinese.

[BigToast]

What's certainly being established is that any critique of this show will be instantly categorized as racist.

Not "any" critique. Just the racist ones.

[Xilurm]

There's so much CGI. It feels like a dream. Why are they trying to make it look like the Hobbit instead of LotR?

[Toppy]

I'm just picturing you doing calculations in the grocery store about where someone's lineage must trace back to before you can ask them where to find the bread. Hyperfixation on race isn't healthy, especially not in the area of the arts. There are 1,000 reasons this series is probably going to suck and none of them have to do with actors' skin colors.

What? They were actively saying it on said radio. "We're doing this for black history month!" which was met with immediate backlash. Me and the other workers were joking about how stupid it was, some of them felt insulted that they were only going to black the music in February.

The hyper fixation was coming from the company. The fixation is coming from Amazon in this one. It's just there for metrics.

[Dhrizzle]

What part of there being a black Dwarf Queen is reflective of the modern world?

I get the argument that's trying to be made here, but 'Just don't call it Lord of the Rings' isn't a good reason just because you don't particularly like the changes in the adaptation.

I mean there's tons of stuff from the LOTR movies that got changed that I could criticize too. The Wargs looked more like hyenas than wolves, and weren't very intelligent for that matter. Or they cast a 'pretty boy' to play Kili the Dwarf, who didn't really look like a Dwarf at all. These aren't great changes, but they're part of the adaptations nonetheless. It's an odd argument to say 'you can go ahead and do that just don't call it the Lord of the Rings/Hobbit'

The Warg thing really annoyed me because they were intelligent enough to be one of the 5 armies, without them we're stuck with just 4. Also I didn't mind the way Fili was shown as I think across the 13 they showed a good range of ages and you could imagine him filling out to look more like Thorin.

Shame about all the CGI bullshit and other crap they forced in to get in the way of Martin Freeman being brilliant.

[DarkAmbient]

Sure, if you single out a paragraph of my entire response, ofc you would think it was nonsense. My point are as following:

A) It is pointless to glimpse what Tolkien would have wanted or not wanted.
B) People are getting too hang up on the representation thing

And most importantly

C) People already decided this sucks by watching a single minute of footage.

And I think that is silly.

In the case of an author who's no longer around to state how they feel about adaptations I think it's best to stick as closely as possible to their work. It's the most respectful thing to do.

As for the trailer, I honestly thought it looked alright. I mean, an elf with a buzz cut is ridiculous, but still. The overall quality was fine IMO, some of the criticism is unjustified.