Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[bledgor]

I mean few people expected the first 2 episodes/premiere to be bad, it is more a question of the fall off from there.

IIRC there was a ~30% dropoff from episode 1 to 2, I would not be surprised if we are already sub 30% premiere numbers (with the finale bumping back up a bit) considering episode 5 was basically a repeat of 4(orcs about to invade tower, still about to invade. Galadriel about to leave Numenor, still about to leave, etc). The show has been even the most ardent defender divisive in nature, and slow paced as well.

[PACOX]

After having to force myself to watch 5 to watch 6...I'm not too disappointed because at least something happened in 6. If you just accept that the show doesnt have the best writing it has its moments.

[Triceron]

Finnaaallly getting somewhere.

Now this was a good episode. Finally getting some payoff.

Quick thoughts, they're really pushing those hints on Halbrand being Sauron. I still don't buy it, but man do they lay it on thick. Will see where they go with this.

[Orby]

Episode 6 review

Solid episode that still has a lot of problems, also glad to see we finally have some conflict after 5 episodes of build and non existent character development. No Elrond and the dwarfs in this one so already which was sad as they are the best part, but Galadriel was at least more likable in this episode in some parts anyway, there are some questionable moments with her, but there was some clear parts of the episode I thought to myself 'thats the Galadriel I know'

The guy who plays Adar is great, I love his character a lot, he commands the attention of the viewer, or at least me, whenever he is on screen. He pretty much became to season one what I predicted, even though we are still two more episodes to go.

We got to see some skirmishes and 'battles' this episode, none of the large scale battles from the Peter Jackson movies but more small scale battles, between the Southlanders and the orcs. a lot of intensity but I was disappointed with the fight at the tower, I hoped that to be an episode on to itself rather than have it be around the village. I just think the visual of the tower battle would have been better than the village, but I digress. I also love how this show is keeping with the dumb orc traits... I never get tired of that. Also this may be nit picking, but when the Numenoreans saved the Southlander village how did they know they were in danger and how did they get there so fast? Once again someone can maybe tell me?

Also I am not sure how that one dude knew what to do with the broken sword thing that led to the finale, was that mentioned or did the sword tell him? I was confused there, so maybe someone can let me know?

I do think after the village lost so many people there just seemed to be the swath of people still in it after the battle was over, and instead of a funeral they are throwing a party? Like, people just died? How much time past for them to get over that fact and throw a party, I expect a morning or mourning, your mother, father, child just died? It would be like in LotR after Theodred's death all of Rohan start partying. Maybe its a southlander tradition lol.

Overall one of the better episodes so far, still has many of the problems the show has continued to have and well as some questionable decisions that let me befuddled, though the pacing this episode was a little bit better, and with a whole episode with Galadriel in I was expecting to hate it more, but she was slightly tolerable this episode.

7/10

Past reviews.
Episode 1: 6/10
Episode 2: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53897065
Episode 3: 4/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53904070
Episode 4: 6/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53910372
Episode 5: 5/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53916644

[s_bushido]

Props to the person who guessed what Adar was. Turns out there was more to his name than I figured.

[Orby]

"Women destroy everything I love. But it's totally not misogyny, bro."

jokes on him when he learns it isn't woman destroying franchises but straight white men in exec jobs that run multi billion dollar businesses that only care about money... But that blue haired female bogyman runs wild I guess.

[Kumorii]

As others have said.
Finally things start to happen. Although there's lots of fighting which isn't required for things to get moving, but things are regardless.

At this point, if I look at it from the view of someone who doesn't know anything about LotR and the characters involved except very surface level; I think it would be satisfying for Halbrand to be Sauron.
Him saying he was driven from the lands by orcs and Adar saying he killed Sauron, which connects him being driven away from the southlands.
Halbrand having history with Adar and I think the reason why he asked if he remembers him is for him knowing he needs to kill him or not. Not killing him sells his cover more so than killing him to prevent him from talking. Them giving imagery of smithing when talking about his past, all of these are breadcrumbs to Halbrand.
At this point I would probably be disappointed if he isn't because regardless of my overall view on the show, these hints they are doing are actually quite subtle and well done, but if you pay attention you can see it.

Would also explain why Halbrand managed to get ahead of both Galadriel and Adar in the woods.
I would buy it if he ran on a path next to them and they showed he slowly caught up, but nah. He came from the opposite direction...and Galadriel disappearing for quite a bit of time after he tripped Adar when she was just right behind him didn't make much sense to me. No galadriel visible when they did the wide shots and she gets off the horse just in time to say stop. Felt a bit contrived.

Side note:
Adars speech to Halbrand during that moment made me think I've heard this kind of speech before. Couldn't put my finger on it until I remember that Homelander actually does a similar speech. Not saying it's a bad thing, I think getting inspiration from that show / comic is good tbh.

The way the show handle extras is still very bad. It's clear that no one really matters except the main cast. As long as extras dies no one really gives a shit. Them being ambushed and no one really caring for any of them, but then all of them focus on Bronwyn's condition, shown by the camera panning to extras to show their response to her pain is just there to enforce that she is a main character... breaks immersion for me. Have people tend to more wounded, have people worried about other things. They brought in one extra person and he died just so they could focus on Bronwyn more and simply to show how selfless she is. It's too obvious imo.
It feels very static and everything is just there for the main characters. Shows and movies generally are, but it detracts from the world building imo. It's clear it's a show when these things happen.
As @Orbyn mentions above. I don't mind them having a party, but that they don't even mention the people who fought in the battle and died and made a toast in their honor or something just screams "Eh, lets party, only extras died so who gives a shit, right?" to me.

Think the choreography is better here. Probably because it's more chaotic, so it's more about getting things done rather than flair and showing off X or Y characters skill (except Galadriel, because of course). Which is how I think fights should be made overall. So I liked it. When watching Arondir I noticed he actually used some capoeira moves. Which isn't actually used that often. And decided to google and he did in fact learn capoeira for his fight scenes. Which I appreciate, I think it suits elves tbh.

Galadriel, still a weak point. Her talking to Isildur about humility is just laughable. Especially funny because at the end Arondir says "They have waited long for their king", paraphrasing of course. Her response is "Not as long as the elves". Really showing some humility there. Ignore the fact these people have had a shit week with orcs and finally got some hope. Nah, elves waited longer. She instantly turns to violence as soon as Adar talks back... still waiting for that growth of this character.

Also I am not sure how that one dude knew what to do with the broken sword thing that led to the finale, was that mentioned or did the sword tell him? I was confused there, so maybe someone can let me know?

I'll respond to this quote talking about this bit. I think those who are branded by it gets a connection to it.
Arondir "hides" the sword-key from everyone, not even telling Bronwyn. But apparently Theon knows where it is, so he must know somehow. Same with the old guy, he is also branded by it and probably either hear voices or have "seen" what it is and what it's for. Theon didn't know what it was for though, so my guess it has some form of saurons consciousness in it, so it can decide on it's own. Similar to how the One Ring have a will of it's own, right.
This is speculation though and could just be poor writing and convenience.

Question I have is though is why did Arondir just give an axe to Theon? I get it that he wants people to believe it's gone, so I understand giving him a dummy object. Though I do find the plan to be a bit stupid considering literally anyone can just open the package and thinking no one will is pretty gullible. However, the sword is gone and he knows it's gone but doesn't seem worried about or even warns anyone? Not sure what Arondir is thinking here, he made damn sure that Galadriel get it back because of it's importance but now that it's gone for real, no concern really. Could be an editing issue and people just aren't aware it's gone. How the old guy got it though isn't shown...but I figured they would guard this object a bit more securely?

------

And the plan for the orcs to dig tunnels across the lands so a sword-key can open the floodgates at a tower to fill them and direct to water to what I assume is gonna become mount doom is a bit to bombastic and contrived. Imagine making this specific plans a long time ago when building the flood gate / tower and making a sword-key for this contraption so one day you can do this. Now I'm just curious what lead up to this plan being hatched in the first place. I think it can be explained, so I'm not that annoyed by it, hopefully the show will explain it though. Otherwise I will be.



Episodes are getting better for the most part. I assume next episode will be of the same quality because it will be the same director.

[Mazza]

Did - in Tolkien tradition - the Numenor army get carried there by the eagles or something? I mean, that army sure got there fast and they somehow knew exactly where they had to go? Did I miss Halbrand knowing where the orcs were heading?

Other than that, this is the best episode so far. Happy to give this a 7, even a 7.5. Solid.

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Question I have is though is why did Arondir just give an axe to Theon? I get it that he wants people to believe it's gone, so I understand giving him a dummy object. Though I do find the plan to be a bit stupid considering literally anyone can just open the package and thinking no one will is pretty gullible. However, the sword is gone and he knows it's gone but doesn't seem worried about or even warns anyone? Not sure what Arondir is thinking here, he made damn sure that Galadriel get it back because of it's importance but now that it's gone for real, no concern really. Could be an editing issue and people just aren't aware it's gone. How the old guy got it though isn't shown...but I figured they would guard this object a bit more securely?

I think he didn't realise it wasn't the hilt and Adar always had the hatchet in there. If he knew, there would be a lot more urgency regarding the key being missing. You never see them open the package until Theo does. Also, you can hear Adar give that old guy a mission right before the Numenor army attacks. I think that he gave him the key then already and sent him off while distracting Galadriel and co.

[Kumorii]

I think he didn't realise it wasn't the hilt and Adar always had the hatchet in there. If he knew, there would be a lot more urgency regarding the key being missing.

When did it get swapped? (actually, he probably swapped it after getting it from the house, doesn't explain why no one is double checking the contents of the package though) Galadriel and Halbrand caught him.
If he didn't have it, they should raise alarm he didn't have it. If he did, they should double check it's the hilt. Still no alarm about it being switched.

If you gonna give the hilt to Theon to give to Numenor so they can toss it over the ship on their way home, It's quite important to make sure it's the right object.

Something got lost in the editorial process I'm sure, which feels like it happens quite often. Just a few short scenes under 1 minute in total of material would probably explain this "plot-twist" in a better way. They hade plenty of other scenes they could cut down from to make this work.

For this outcome to happen as shown, everyone have to be ridiculously stupid. Everyone knows it's an important object. Act like such.

[InfiniteCharger]

So basically, the whole point of the writing is to show how there was this big battle near the tower with Orcs but no Sauron yet, as he is still hidden, while the key to his plan is used to activate a switch. Because obviously in the actual lore only Sauron was making orcs and commanding them at this point. Which they obviously wrote that way so they can still keep with the idea that Sauron's whereabouts are a "mystery" leading up to the creation of the rings of power. That is even though Adar, who only exists to allow Sauron to remain a mystery, almost laid it out already. And at the same time the bad guys still get to accomplish their mission of causing the eruption of mount doom because the main heroes are complete idiots, which is a continuing theme of this series. Keeping in mind all of the contrivances that led to all of these story lines tying together in the events of this episode.

None of that would be a problem if the payoff was worth it, but nothing in this series comes off as Epic or grand in any way, which is what I would expect from a work set in the second age of Tolkien. And for me that just comes from the fact that live action cannot compete with video games in doing stories like this justice, without a lot of dedication, effort and talent to even make it come close to capturing that epic nature of high fantasy....... And this show just isn't doing it. And on top of that, they aren't even getting the basics right from writing, to acting, to costumes, to dialog and so forth to even make it a decent show just in general.

For me, the definition of generic fantasy is something where this is no investment in the lore, world building, characters and settings to make something that stands out and is distinct with a very memorable story, characters and events. And many times a lot of that also depends on visual effects which also requires similar investment along with all those other things to stand out.

[DarkAmbient]

Things happening = good. The writing = bad. Galadriel the Wise didn't think to unwrap the object to see if it was the hilt. Neither did Arondir, nor did he notice it was now suspiciously axe-shaped. Totally-Not-Sauron didn't check it because he wanted the ploy to work. (Oh and did you notice his weapon of choice was a spear, the same weapon he - I mean Sauron - was holding during the brief flashback at the start of the show).

A suspiciously large number of Rohirrim and horses (charging in daylight even though it was night when Adar heard them approaching) considering the size and number of boats they arrived in.

Halbrand being proclaimed Lord and King because he's carrying a pouch with a marking on it.

Almost at the end of the season and the hobbits' existence has so far been utterly pointless.

Galadriel actually falling for Totally-Not-Sauron. I'm looking forward to seeing how she and everyone else in the village survive a devastating pyroclastic flow.

[Soikona]

The only thing that is bias is giving it a low rating purely on hating something because in your opinion its not tolkien, hes dead we dont know what he would want only what you seem to think.

The proof of the show being good is clear in all evidence so you cant deny most ppl think its a good show.

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.

The show was advertised as being true to the source material was it not? Is critiquing it because it didn’t do as it said, on such an enormous level, not warrant in your eyes?

[Hansworst]

Props to the person who guessed what Adar was. Turns out there was more to his name than I figured.

Sometimes I have a moment of clarity.

So since Adar means father in Sindar, could he be the first Elf turned into Orc by Morgoth?

[Kumorii]

Forgot to mention the orcs vampirism inconsistencies. Adar clearly showed us how much it burns them, yet they never do even if legs and hands / arms are in the sunlight unless they want to pay attention to it.

Seems like a silly detail to add when you're not gonna care about it.

[rhorle]

Great the point was there aren't 10 million more out there like you claimed.

You said the Nielsen ratings gives us 11 million over 4 days. We also know 25 million viewed the show in the first 24 hours. 25-11=14. There are at least 14 million views unaccounted for with the Nielsen ratings. So either way you are still wrong.

[DarkAmbient]

Please let's not have pages more tedious pointscoring about the fucking viewing figures...

[Hansworst]

Please let's not have pages more tedious pointscoring about the fucking viewing figures...

This. Thank you in advance.

[PACOX]

Did - in Tolkien tradition - the Numenor army get carried there by the eagles or something? I mean, that army sure got there fast and they somehow knew exactly where they had to go? Did I miss Halbrand knowing where the orcs were heading?

Sailing never made logical sense in LOTR. It's one out that the showrunners get. Space and time just break on the water.

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Things happening = good. The writing = bad. Galadriel the Wise didn't think to unwrap the object to see if it was the hilt. Neither did Arondir, nor did he notice it was now suspiciously axe-shaped. Totally-Not-Sauron didn't check it because he wanted the ploy to work. (Oh and did you notice his weapon of choice was a spear, the same weapon he - I mean Sauron - was holding during the brief flashback at the start of the show).

You could say it was magic that kept anyone from opening any one of the packages because that's how magic works in Middle Earth. It can be as much as occasional sparks and flames as it can be influencing the minds of others ie the rings.

[rhorle]

Did - in Tolkien tradition - the Numenor army get carried there by the eagles or something? I mean, that army sure got there fast and they somehow knew exactly where they had to go? Did I miss Halbrand knowing where the orcs were heading?

In a previous episode Halbrand guessed that the orcs were heading towards Ostirith/Tower and surrounding villages based on the direction they were traveling when he fled.

[Kumorii]

You could say it was magic that kept anyone from opening any one of the packages because that's how magic works in Middle Earth. It can be as much as occasional sparks and flames as it can be influencing the minds of others ie the rings.

You could tell the influence of the ring. Jackson showed it and characters acted it.
This idea of solving things by just labeling it as "magic" is just bad. Something doesn't make sense or is told in a bad way? Magic.