Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

The point is the writers intended for Adar to be stalled at the Watchtower, and it was done so in a contrived way that 'bought time' for Galadriel to get there.

So you admit the story would be different without the Arondir character present to delay Adar. Theo could have died if captured by the orcs and not saved. They wanted the sword and not Theo. The village could have burned if there was no resistance or an elf to plan it. Your arguments about teleportation clearly reveal that you would have complained about tunnels and trenches appearing out of no where. We never would have saw those without Arondir.

The creation of Mordor would be different if Arondir didn't exist. It is silly to think it would play out exactly the same with out him. Removing a main character changes a story. Skin tone however does not.

[Triceron]

So you admit the story would be different without the Arondir character present to delay Adar. Theo could have died if captured by the orcs and not saved. They wanted the sword and not Theo.

Theo has plot armor, so wouldn't have died. Same with his mom, and she literally walked off after having pipe-sized arrows yanked out and causing would-be massive blood loss. Had Arondir not been there, she woulda survived too.

The village could have burned if there was no resistance or an elf to plan it.

The village burns anyways.

Your arguments about teleportation clearly reveal that you would have complained about tunnels and trenches appearing out of no where. We never would have saw those without Arondir.

Nonsense. The show could have EASILY dedicated some Orc/Adar POV scenes peppered throughout the show. Why would our only look into the Orcs have to be through the POV of prisoners? There's no reason why they couldn't unveil this through a simple Orc-centric POV.

The creation of Mordor would be different if Arondir didn't exist. It is silly to think it would play out exactly the same with out him.

How did Mordor get created? Because Adar gets the sword. How Adar gets the sword could be told a million different ways that didn't involve Arondir at all, considering he wasn't even the one who gave it to Adar.

Removing a main character changes a story. Skin tone however does not.

Point is, the character literally exists because of his skintone, because otherwise his actual role in the story isn't even all that significant to the main plot. It's a very odd direction that this show has chosen honestly.

And I don't say this because I dislike the character or don't think the character fits the show or anything like that. I'm literally pointing out how the character feels shoehorned into the story so far, and hasn't really done anything that ties into the actual main plot that is actually necessary. IMO, he's there just for the sake of representation, like Tauriel was.

[rhorle]

How did Mordor get created? Because Adar gets the sword. How Adar gets the sword could be told a million different ways that didn't involve Arondir at all, considering he wasn't even the one who gave it to Adar.

Yet you said the character could be removed and the story wouldn't change. A million different ways is changing the story. The character is not present just because of skin tone as the arc would work the same if the character was white. Stop being racist. The skin tone choices of the show impact absolutely zero of the story.

[Xath]

Yet you said the character could be removed and the story wouldn't change. A million different ways is changing the story. The character is not present just because of skin tone as the arc would work the same if the character was white. Stop being racist. The skin tone choices of the show impact absolutely zero of the story.

You realize you just admitted the character could be completely removed and it would change nothing there is no significance to the character. The writing would still be trash but it wouldn't have a shield to hide behind. Also yes actor skill makes a huge difference. The daredevil movie for as mediocre as it was is one of the times I absolutely believe casting was purely done off talent because holy crap Michael Clark Duncan carried that role vocally even if he wasn't perfect in terms of visuals his vocal work was incredible.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a bit hilarious that most of this bullshit dried up the instant the show actually came out, and it was demonstrated that the casting of actors of the "wrong" skin color ended up having no impact on its story or quality.

But you just keep on banging that drum. Maybe one day it will work out for you.

More likely that the world will simply keep on spinning, and studios will continue to cast whoever the hell they want and happily ignore the petulant whining of racist fucks.

? The writing is absolutely trash.

[rhorle]

You realize you just admitted the character could be completely removed and it would change nothing there is no significance to the character.

How do you figure that? I said the character works the same regardless of skin tone. That isn't removing a character but changing their skin tone. A white Arondir would be the exact same as a Black Arondir. His role in the story doesn't change because of his skin tone. I've also said removing the character would change the story.

[Triceron]

Yet you said the character could be removed and the story wouldn't change. A million different ways is changing the story.

Yes, because the story is about the creation of Mordor, the Rings and the search for Sauron. The plot doesn't change.

There are a million ways to change the story elements to fit the overall plot. The Maple Cut of the Hobbit is a great example of how the Hobbit movies could be adapted differently while keeping the exact same plot. The extended LOTR trilogy is another example of how the same plot can be told with more scenes that change and add to the plot. There isn't just a single way that the plot could be told.

The character is not present just because of skin tone as the arc would work the same if the character was white. Stop being racist. The skin tone choices of the show impact absolutely zero of the story.

Er, saying the character isn't necessary to the plot isn't racist. Saying the character shouldn't be portrayed by a black actor would be racist, and no one is implying that. Stop projecting racist bullshit where none is being said.

If you keep pulling this bullshit, I'm just gonna call you out on it every time you shitpost. You already know this.

I equated it very simply to Tauriel. If the context of the argument is that Tauriel is unnecessary to the overall plot and could be cut entirely without changing the plot, then that isn't some discriminatory statement. It's a statement on how the character is unnecessary to the overall plot.

And Tauriel is admittedly added because the creators wanted to diversify the cast with a strong female character where none existed in the Hobbit. That much is known. What I'm equating Arondir to is the same situation, where they are literally inserting a Black Elf character for this very reason, because otherwise the character doesn't even fit well into the plot. Even if they replace the character with a white actor, we already regard that his entire character is unnecessary to the plot (in context and retrospect of the current 6 episodes). My point is there is a reason why this role isn't merely given to a white actor, one that is being decided by creators of this series.

And if you hadn't been paying attention to the marketting behind RoP before it came out and the whole Superfan event that was a whole self-congratulatory slap on the back for bringing diversity into this series, then you might not get the full picture of why Arondir actually exists in this show. The Superfan event would be quite different if Arondir were a white actor, I can tell you that.

[rhorle]

Yes, because the story is about the creation of Mordor, the Rings and the search for Sauron. The plot doesn't change. There are a million ways to change the story elements to fit the overall plot.

You can't have it both ways. Either the story changes or it doesn't change. Saying the character is unnecessary isn't why I called you racist. Making it about their skin tone is why your statements are racist. The characters would function the exact same way if they were white. Just as Frodo would function the exact same way if he wasn't white. Or Gandalf. Etc. I'm not projecting racist things here. You made those type of statements at least own up to them.

Point is, the character literally exists because of his skintone

Being clear here, it's n\othing about the actor or their portrayal. The Arondir character literally exists because of Amazon wanting a Black Elf character of significance

But I'm not gonna pretend she's there because the actress won the part against all other actresses regardless of skintone or whatnot; this stuff is pre-planned and they wanted a Black Dwarf and found someone who could fit a Black Dwarf role

[Triceron]

You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can.

Remove the Arondir character. The plot stays the same. That's exactly 'both ways'.

Saying the character is unnecessary isn't why I called you racist. Making it about their skin tone is why your statements are racist.

You obviously haven't seen the Superfan promos they did for Rings of Power if you think I'm the only one making it about skin tone :/

Like I said, we can talk about this Arondir character as if he were white, but he'd still be an unnecessary character to the series, and the marketting behind this character would be quite different.

Would you call me anti-feminisit for making the same comments about Tauriel? If not, you're implying double standards, no?

[KainneAbsolute]

The show is terrible in many ways. I can't believe they didn't notice what they were filming.

If you tell me this is small budget series, I would understand the lack of writing, pacing, convenience, etc. But that's not the case.

[rhorle]

Sure you can. Remove the Arondir character. The plot stays the same. That's exactly 'both ways'.

It doesn't though as you've stated. The story and the plot require changes with out that character present. They are a main character. I never said you were the only one making it about race. Being racist doesn't go away just because other people are racist as well. Of course we can talk about him as his skin color didn't matter. Yet you still choose to make it about race and skin color.

[Triceron]

It doesn't though as you've stated. The story and the plot require changes with out that character present.

It's the definition of narrative filler.

Removing it would not affect the plot overall. Mount Doom would still explode if you removed Arondir from the picture. Everything important actually happens around him, not directly through him.

Why the show decided to write the show this way, I have no clue, but his character isn't necessary to the plot overall. The sequence of events would still play out without him.

Adar still gets the hilt, Galadriel is still the one who saves the village and captures Adar, and the hilt would still be used to blow up Mount Doom.

[rhorle]

The plot doesn't change, only story elements do.

The plot is "the how, when, and why". Story is "the who, what, and where". That changes if Arondir is not present because he is a main character. If you edit Arondir out of the existing show then scenes would no longer make sense. You'd have a tower and orcs that just die from an invisible threat.

[Triceron]

The plot is "the how, when, and why". Story is "the who, what, and where". That changes if Arondir is not present because he is a main character. If you edit Arondir out of the existing show then scenes would no longer make sense. You'd have a tower and orcs that just die from an invisible threat.

Why would you be talking about just having Arondir edited out with the show revolving around the Southlanders and Watchtower Elves talking to someone who isn't there? Why are you taking things way too literally? I can't tell if you're trolling or not, honestly.


You don't actually understand what I'm talking about when I say remove narrative filler, do you? If we're talking about removing a filler character, then the entire associated filler goes with it.

Just like if I were to talk about removing Tauriel from the Hobbit, then all of her associated scenes, like saving the Dwarves from the Spiders or healing Kili's leg, would also be cut. The overall plot of the movies would remain the same. Kili doesn't need to suffer an injury to his leg to move into the final act. The Dwarves didn't need to be saved by Tauriel, Bilbo was already doing that. See how that works?

What you're talking about is.. delusional. I'm not even sure why you're responding with this line of argument.

[rhorle]

Why would you be talking about just having Arondir edited out with the show revolving around the Southlanders and Watchtower Elves talking to someone who isn't there?

That is what you claimed before you edited it out of your post. It is silly to hide that argument when you made the same argument earlier in the thread when referencing a Seven re-cut trailer.

I think you underestimate the power of editing.

[Triceron]

That is what you claimed before you edited it out of your post. It is silly to hide that argument when you made the same argument earlier in the thread when referencing a Seven re-cut trailer.

I said you could cut the character, meaning him and his associated scenes.

I'm not sure how you took it so literally.



This isn't what I mean by cutting out the character. Even if it would be amusing.


By editing I showed you the Seven trailer that turns it into a romantic comedy trailer. That's how powerful changing around sequencing and editing scenes can be.

If you want to see a great example of what I mean, watch the Maple cut of the Hobbit. I've name dropped it multiple times now, and it does exactly what I'm talking about with editing out Tauriel and Radaghast completely from the Hobbit trilogy. The plot remains exactly the same.

[rhorle]

By editing I showed you the Seven trailer that turns it into a romantic comedy trailer. That's how powerful changing around sequencing and editing scenes can be.

Which you can't do while keep the same story and plot of the show. Because Arondir is a main character that is integral for moving those things along. The Watchtower couldn't be destroyed without him present. The scene with the blood cow or the Tavern wouldn't make much sense. A lot of things wouldn't make much sense by editing out the character and/or associated scenes. It would leave literally holes in the telling of the remaining scenes.

[Triceron]

Which you can't do while keep the same story and plot of the show. Because Arondir is a main character that is integral for moving those things along. The Watchtower couldn't be destroyed without him present. The scene with the blood cow or the Tavern wouldn't make much sense. A lot of things wouldn't make much sense by editing out the character and/or associated scenes. It would leave literally holes in the telling of the remaining scenes.

The watchtower doesn't even need to be shown being destroyed. The entire scene can be cut without affecting the plot, because it's literally filler.

You understand what filler is, right? Because we can't really carry on the discussion if you don't.

Entire sections of the show can be cut alongside Arondir, without affecting the plot, because most of it is actually filler.

The blood cow? Filler, because Galadriel already establishes that evil is growing in the Southlands through the map revelation. Tavern scene? What importance is showing their emnity to the Elves to the overall plot? We could literally cut it, and we still know there are Sauron supporters through that one scene in the Watchtower with Theo and the Traitor dude talking about Sauron's return. We don't need to establish the Southlanders having a beef against Elves, because that's not even played up in the show. The Sauron sympathists had plenty of reason to defect without Elf discrimination as a motivating factor, they were either sympathetic to his return or felt it was their best chances at survival against the Orcs. The Elves were already gone by the time they even get to the Watchtower, and Arondir was imprisoned for much of that time. There isn't any payoff for that Tavern scene at all now that you bring it up.

[rhorle]

The watchtower doesn't even need to be shown being destroyed.

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated? Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do. Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

[Triceron]

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated?

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do.

It's not necessary to the main plot, which is actually driven by Galadriel's storyline. As I said, everything we need to know happening in the South was conveniently figured out in Numenor, through Galadriel and Halbrand. Halbrand was already a source of exposition for everything happening in the Southlands. Everything he said was on point.

Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

You sure can. Watch the Maple cut trailer of the Hobbit.

Obi-wan TV series had a fan edit around scenes to make the story more coherent and concise just be rearranging scenes, cutting filler (young Leia being chased by adults) and inserting some voice over dialogue where it fits as a memory or internal monologue.

And again, I point to that Seven trailer being a completely different tone of movie just with some fancy editing and music/voice work. No refilming at all, all scenes that exist in the movie. I literally gave you examples of what you're deeming impossible.

Rewriting would be a good option, but again it'd be pointless as saying that PJ and crew could have made a Hobbit film without Tauriel. It'd be missing the entire point of them literally creating this character for the sake of diversity.

[rhorle]

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

The context is editing out scenes. So the Watchtower being "whole" in one instance and destroyed in another wouldn't work that well. We wouldn't be shown why or how it got destroyed. Arondir's arc is necessary to tell the story of the Southlands. Without those scenes there would be gaps in the story and things would just be randomly happening.