Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

Yes, because the story is about the creation of Mordor, the Rings and the search for Sauron. The plot doesn't change. There are a million ways to change the story elements to fit the overall plot.

You can't have it both ways. Either the story changes or it doesn't change. Saying the character is unnecessary isn't why I called you racist. Making it about their skin tone is why your statements are racist. The characters would function the exact same way if they were white. Just as Frodo would function the exact same way if he wasn't white. Or Gandalf. Etc. I'm not projecting racist things here. You made those type of statements at least own up to them.

Point is, the character literally exists because of his skintone

Being clear here, it's n\othing about the actor or their portrayal. The Arondir character literally exists because of Amazon wanting a Black Elf character of significance

But I'm not gonna pretend she's there because the actress won the part against all other actresses regardless of skintone or whatnot; this stuff is pre-planned and they wanted a Black Dwarf and found someone who could fit a Black Dwarf role

[Triceron]

You can't have it both ways.

Sure you can.

Remove the Arondir character. The plot stays the same. That's exactly 'both ways'.

Saying the character is unnecessary isn't why I called you racist. Making it about their skin tone is why your statements are racist.

You obviously haven't seen the Superfan promos they did for Rings of Power if you think I'm the only one making it about skin tone :/

Like I said, we can talk about this Arondir character as if he were white, but he'd still be an unnecessary character to the series, and the marketting behind this character would be quite different.

Would you call me anti-feminisit for making the same comments about Tauriel? If not, you're implying double standards, no?

[KainneAbsolute]

The show is terrible in many ways. I can't believe they didn't notice what they were filming.

If you tell me this is small budget series, I would understand the lack of writing, pacing, convenience, etc. But that's not the case.

[rhorle]

Sure you can. Remove the Arondir character. The plot stays the same. That's exactly 'both ways'.

It doesn't though as you've stated. The story and the plot require changes with out that character present. They are a main character. I never said you were the only one making it about race. Being racist doesn't go away just because other people are racist as well. Of course we can talk about him as his skin color didn't matter. Yet you still choose to make it about race and skin color.

[Triceron]

It doesn't though as you've stated. The story and the plot require changes with out that character present.

It's the definition of narrative filler.

Removing it would not affect the plot overall. Mount Doom would still explode if you removed Arondir from the picture. Everything important actually happens around him, not directly through him.

Why the show decided to write the show this way, I have no clue, but his character isn't necessary to the plot overall. The sequence of events would still play out without him.

Adar still gets the hilt, Galadriel is still the one who saves the village and captures Adar, and the hilt would still be used to blow up Mount Doom.

[rhorle]

The plot doesn't change, only story elements do.

The plot is "the how, when, and why". Story is "the who, what, and where". That changes if Arondir is not present because he is a main character. If you edit Arondir out of the existing show then scenes would no longer make sense. You'd have a tower and orcs that just die from an invisible threat.

[Triceron]

The plot is "the how, when, and why". Story is "the who, what, and where". That changes if Arondir is not present because he is a main character. If you edit Arondir out of the existing show then scenes would no longer make sense. You'd have a tower and orcs that just die from an invisible threat.

Why would you be talking about just having Arondir edited out with the show revolving around the Southlanders and Watchtower Elves talking to someone who isn't there? Why are you taking things way too literally? I can't tell if you're trolling or not, honestly.


You don't actually understand what I'm talking about when I say remove narrative filler, do you? If we're talking about removing a filler character, then the entire associated filler goes with it.

Just like if I were to talk about removing Tauriel from the Hobbit, then all of her associated scenes, like saving the Dwarves from the Spiders or healing Kili's leg, would also be cut. The overall plot of the movies would remain the same. Kili doesn't need to suffer an injury to his leg to move into the final act. The Dwarves didn't need to be saved by Tauriel, Bilbo was already doing that. See how that works?

What you're talking about is.. delusional. I'm not even sure why you're responding with this line of argument.

[rhorle]

Why would you be talking about just having Arondir edited out with the show revolving around the Southlanders and Watchtower Elves talking to someone who isn't there?

That is what you claimed before you edited it out of your post. It is silly to hide that argument when you made the same argument earlier in the thread when referencing a Seven re-cut trailer.

I think you underestimate the power of editing.

[Triceron]

That is what you claimed before you edited it out of your post. It is silly to hide that argument when you made the same argument earlier in the thread when referencing a Seven re-cut trailer.

I said you could cut the character, meaning him and his associated scenes.

I'm not sure how you took it so literally.



This isn't what I mean by cutting out the character. Even if it would be amusing.


By editing I showed you the Seven trailer that turns it into a romantic comedy trailer. That's how powerful changing around sequencing and editing scenes can be.

If you want to see a great example of what I mean, watch the Maple cut of the Hobbit. I've name dropped it multiple times now, and it does exactly what I'm talking about with editing out Tauriel and Radaghast completely from the Hobbit trilogy. The plot remains exactly the same.

[rhorle]

By editing I showed you the Seven trailer that turns it into a romantic comedy trailer. That's how powerful changing around sequencing and editing scenes can be.

Which you can't do while keep the same story and plot of the show. Because Arondir is a main character that is integral for moving those things along. The Watchtower couldn't be destroyed without him present. The scene with the blood cow or the Tavern wouldn't make much sense. A lot of things wouldn't make much sense by editing out the character and/or associated scenes. It would leave literally holes in the telling of the remaining scenes.

[Triceron]

Which you can't do while keep the same story and plot of the show. Because Arondir is a main character that is integral for moving those things along. The Watchtower couldn't be destroyed without him present. The scene with the blood cow or the Tavern wouldn't make much sense. A lot of things wouldn't make much sense by editing out the character and/or associated scenes. It would leave literally holes in the telling of the remaining scenes.

The watchtower doesn't even need to be shown being destroyed. The entire scene can be cut without affecting the plot, because it's literally filler.

You understand what filler is, right? Because we can't really carry on the discussion if you don't.

Entire sections of the show can be cut alongside Arondir, without affecting the plot, because most of it is actually filler.

The blood cow? Filler, because Galadriel already establishes that evil is growing in the Southlands through the map revelation. Tavern scene? What importance is showing their emnity to the Elves to the overall plot? We could literally cut it, and we still know there are Sauron supporters through that one scene in the Watchtower with Theo and the Traitor dude talking about Sauron's return. We don't need to establish the Southlanders having a beef against Elves, because that's not even played up in the show. The Sauron sympathists had plenty of reason to defect without Elf discrimination as a motivating factor, they were either sympathetic to his return or felt it was their best chances at survival against the Orcs. The Elves were already gone by the time they even get to the Watchtower, and Arondir was imprisoned for much of that time. There isn't any payoff for that Tavern scene at all now that you bring it up.

[rhorle]

The watchtower doesn't even need to be shown being destroyed.

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated? Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do. Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

[Triceron]

So then why would it be destroyed in the scene where the mechanism is activated?

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

Everything you keep calling filler is not filler. It is part of the plot and story that explains how and why things happen the way they do.

It's not necessary to the main plot, which is actually driven by Galadriel's storyline. As I said, everything we need to know happening in the South was conveniently figured out in Numenor, through Galadriel and Halbrand. Halbrand was already a source of exposition for everything happening in the Southlands. Everything he said was on point.

Something you've criticized in the past when it isn't shown the screen and just happens. You can re-write and re-film the show to not have those parts but you can't just edit it out.

You sure can. Watch the Maple cut trailer of the Hobbit.

Obi-wan TV series had a fan edit around scenes to make the story more coherent and concise just be rearranging scenes, cutting filler (young Leia being chased by adults) and inserting some voice over dialogue where it fits as a memory or internal monologue.

And again, I point to that Seven trailer being a completely different tone of movie just with some fancy editing and music/voice work. No refilming at all, all scenes that exist in the movie. I literally gave you examples of what you're deeming impossible.

Rewriting would be a good option, but again it'd be pointless as saying that PJ and crew could have made a Hobbit film without Tauriel. It'd be missing the entire point of them literally creating this character for the sake of diversity.

[rhorle]

Is the watchtower being destroyed necessary for the mechanism to work?

The context is editing out scenes. So the Watchtower being "whole" in one instance and destroyed in another wouldn't work that well. We wouldn't be shown why or how it got destroyed. Arondir's arc is necessary to tell the story of the Southlands. Without those scenes there would be gaps in the story and things would just be randomly happening.

[Triceron]

The context is editing out scenes. So the Watchtower being "whole" in one instance and destroyed in another wouldn't work that well. We wouldn't be shown why or how it got destroyed. Arondir's arc is necessary to tell the story of the Southlands. Without those scenes there would be gaps in the story and things would just be randomly happening.

Then you're just nitpicking for the sake of it.

Why couldn't the watchtower get torn apart while Adar and his Orcs go there trying to find humans snd the hilt, which they think is there? Adar gives the order to search and some Orcs yell, while the watchtower crumbles as if being torn down by the Orcs. Done. It implies that Adar gave orders to search the place, to the point of tearing down the entire watchtower.

[rhorle]

Why couldn't the watchtower get torn apart while Adar and his Orcs go there trying to find humans snd the hilt, which they think is there? Adar gives the order to search and some Orcs yell, while the watchtower crumbles as if being torn down by the Orcs. Done. It implies that Adar gave orders to search the place, to the point of tearing down the entire watchtower.

You've criticized the show for not showing everything on screen and merely imply stuff. It is strange that it would be fine now.

[Triceron]

You've criticized the show for not showing everything on screen and merely imply stuff. It is strange that it would be fine now.

Couldn't find anything to argue with my example so you jump on this instead?

Yeah, you're done arguing.

[Orby]

Like i said, i didn't watch other reviews, barely watch the ones from RoP, and every time he critize the show he says what could have been done to make it better, he is not talking purely out of his ass.

From a guy who experts in weaponry and fighting, I know the guy is very knowledgeable (also his videos on castles is fantastic), as I said I have no issues with his knowledge on that front, its his nit picking, over analysing, and over the top hate of the show catering to the toxic fandoms that I have an issue with.

I mean going back to his sword autopsy, its like anyone who works in a certain profession, for example my sister is a nurse, and whenever she sees nurses or medical staff on TV act a certain way she would go 'they make it look so easy' or 'that's not how that works'. Things wills stand out to you if you are in that position. I had a friend who was a cop and he'd say if TV cop shows were accurate they'd be 70% of the movie of them doing paper work lol.

It can be fun to highlight bad chorography in shows or highlight things that are not accurate, if you are knowledgeable on that subject, but to a general audience no one really cares. (well until they see the videos highlighting it and then all of sudden people now care)

[Varodoc]

I loved the part where Galadriel stood firm and strong and didn't move an inch when the volcano erupted, while all the lesser men were fleeing and screaming like little girls. Slay queen is so brave in the face of oblivion, I am so proud of her!!

[Flurryfang]

Just rewatched the first 4 episodes of the show with a friend who had not seen the show yet, just so that we could compare opinions and find out if there was a bias.

Its interesting, that when rewatching the show, the first 2 episodes are not really bad. They are confusing, sure, but they set a number of interesting stories into motion.

And then comes episode 3.....God, why did they have to make numeanor like the most annoying place possible? Why is galadrial such a Bi#%¤? Its really here in this episode, that things just go to hell. The stories set in motion become very stale and the pacing of the show goes into a complete stop.

After that, its just the same. The likeablity of all the characters takes deep dives, because there is so little focus on them outside of showing them taking action.

I think that somewhere in there, there is a good story about elves, Numenorian men and dwarves inside this show, about Elrond setting up the scene for the creation of the rings with Durin and Celebrimbor, about Galadrial making allies with Numenor and fightning orcs in the southlands together with Elendil to save the home of Halbrand..... But that does not happen, because we have to have a story about Harfoots, a story about the people in the south(eventhough we have a good southland cahracter in Halbrand) and a story about an elf ranger caught by orcs.

Its just too much at the same time, too many stories that strangles each other for time on the screen and too many characters, that only get a fraction of what they need when it comes to development. Its really a shame, that they had to make it so broad, cause if they had made a much narrower story, i think it could have been really good.