Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

And in what way i should see this as not a comp-ltely joke and failure?

Cause you are comparing something from 1995-2000 to a 2022 show with probably 50x the budget, and man it was a rly long time i didn't saw it, but it was def better than that RoP alley scene, at least people there were mostly buffoons without proper training;

Because it has nothing to do with being modern or having a big budget or anything like that.

The show is literally already dumbed down for a very broad audience. It's stupid all the way through from the dialogue to the writing to the combat. It's pretty obvious it's entertainment designed for the lowest common denominator audience, and frankly it works for that.

It's the same reason why the CW is able to keep making shows despite everyone here recognizing that most of their shows are shit and have questionable production values.

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It had the better opener, but I feel fairly comfortable saying that HotD has pulled ahead/RoP has fallen behind. HotD had to overcome the hurdle of season 8 to get viewers, and by and large is much loved/enjoyed so far. Meanwhile RoP had all the potential in the world and has not met those expectations.

I think this is a completely reasonable assumption to make.

[Syegfryed]

Soooo, whats this interview going on that is baiscally the showrunner saying people who don't like the show are evil?

Because it has nothing to do with being modern or having a big budget or anything like that.

It have to do yes, you see something made 20 decades ago compared to something made today, things are different, the standarts were raised, the budget increased, peoplea ability and knowledge into making media, or making this kind of media increased, the writing got better.

We can't comapre the two, we have to compare with today's standarts, especially knowing how much they put it, how many hype they did, Xena didn't, it was a spin-off from a better show, that became cult

The show is literally already dumbed down for a very broad audience. It's stupid all the way through from the dialogue to the writing to the combat. It's pretty obvious it's entertainment designed for the lowest common denominator audience, and frankly it works for that.

Even the general audience is disliking, lol, many people i know who love shit like the flash alte seasons though this is boring and just slept trough it

Hell apparently even Amazon analyst slept.

Like i said previously, if this was an generic random fantasy show, with a low netflix budget, maaaaaaybe this could pass, because they didn't had many tools, but this is fucked, they gave the job to two people who spend decaded having their movied being denied, im starting to believe this shit is some sort of grand esqueme from Amazon/Bezos to laundry money or something.

It's the same reason why the CW is able to keep making shows despite everyone here recognizing that most of their shows are shit and have questionable production values.

And they were getting cancled for that;

[rhorle]

Rings of Power had another 1.2 billion minutes according to Nielsen. Episodes 1 and 2 got a lot more views over the week since episode 3 didn't start adding to the total until Friday. So any real drop off would start with next week rather then this week. It would be nice to get all markets and devices as Amazon has said that the show is doing very well internationally.

[Triceron]

It have to do yes, you see something made 20 decades ago compared to something made today

I mean you say that but have you watched any other shows other than Game of Thrones that had good sword fighting in it? You know it's pretty damn rare, right? Like, GoT is the 1% that actually does it well and does it right in a TV series. And it doesn't really have anything to do with budget since there are plenty of high budget fantasy shows that still get it wrong, RoP itself being a prime example of that.

Like what other TV series that involves swordplay could you really point at having decent sword fights? Maybe the Witcher? The swordplay is really cool but it's like, over the top fantasy just the same. He does so much fancy spinning or using reverse grips that it's just playing into the unrealistic-yet-cool 'Videogame moves' style of fighting than being realistic. I just consider Witcher a completely swords-and-sorcery so I just sit back and enjoy it for being overdramatic. Definitely better than RoP, but also worthy of drinking games.

[Syegfryed]

I mean you say that but have you watched any other shows other than Game of Thrones that had good sword fighting in it? You know it's pretty damn rare, right? Like, GoT is the 1% that actually does it well and does it right in a TV series. And it doesn't really have anything to do with budget since there are plenty of high budget fantasy shows that still get it wrong, RoP itself being a prime example of that.

Like what other TV series that involves swordplay could you really point at having decent sword fights?

I don't want somethin that rflect reali to the fullest, like i said, is not a black and white, is a gradient, just don't be dogshit retarded like RoP - don't hurt the supension of disbelief - and im fine with it

[Triceron]

I don't want somethin that rflect reali to the fullest, like i said, is not a black and white, is a gradient, just don't be dogshit retarded like RoP - don't hurt the supension of disbelief - and im fine with it

Well that's the thing :P

Suspension of disbelief is 100% subjective, so there's no real arguing whether a fictional swordfight is good or bad to anyone other than yourself. It all comes down to whether you enjoy it or not. At most, people can collectively agree that something is good or bad, but when it comes to arguing over it, then it's really down to personal thresholds of suspension of disbelief.

Like, Witcher has some cool swordfights, but it'd break my suspension of disbelief because of all the spinning and reverse grips. It's completely cliche. Of course, I give this show some slack since it's practically a magical fantasy world with videogame tropes written all over it.

And as bad as Xena's fights are for a 20 year old series, I still enjoy them now. I know that most people won't, but I have a fondness and 'higher tolerance for bullshit' for this show since it's Sam Raimi campy goodness. It is what it is. I agree that standards have raised since, and I don't give this benefit of the doubt to many series today. And yeah, I agree RoP's fight scenes suck balls.

[Syegfryed]

Suspension of disbelief is 100% subjective, so there's no real arguing whether a fictional swordfight is good or bad to anyone other than yourself..

I stand by my point that a fictional swordfight, in that context, with someone swinging aa sword to someone who is not even there, is bad, or should be bad, to anyone with at least one eye.

Like, i know there is a degree of how close you can get, and they edit it later, but that entire scene is absurd and ahve no excuse, like they said, they film in one day and no stunts.

Of course, I give this show some slack since it's practically a magical fantasy world with videogame tropes written all over it.

And because they didn't had RoP budget, and Geralt aimed for the monsters/people

[Triceron]

I stand by my point that a fictional swordfight, in that context, with someone swinging aa sword to someone who is not even there, is bad, or should be bad, to anyone with at least one eye.

I mean you say that but you also praised the GoT fight scene while not realizing one of the guys in the 4v1 fight drops his shield in front of the camera for no reason in the middle of the fight

[Rageonit]

Legolas didn't cut his hair though.

I know, and it was a missed opportunity, IMO. LotR should have had at least three slo-mo scenes of Legolas brushing his hair.

[Syegfryed]

I mean you say that but you also praised the GoT fight scene while not realizing one of the guys in the 4v1 fight drops his shield in front of the camera for no reason in the middle of the fight

Like i said, nothing is perfect and there is a gradient, of course that Scene is unrealistc, and we can dig on it, but tis not worse or stupid than that one in RoP

[Fortress of Arrogance]

A less than mediocre episode it was.
No harfoots, no Durin, Elrond and Dysa.
The "fight" over the tower and the village was not interesting, not engaging, no fight scenes to witness, no choreography to praise, no nothing. Numenorean charge was not inspiring or cinematic, or that impactful.
The meta-plot of exploding vulcano with water is as dumb as it sounds.
People having a feast literally minutes after the massacre of their own ended, while there are their dead to take care off TO BEGIN WITH, while there are bloodthirsty prisoners mere meters away?
At least Electrodriel doesn't speak of TEMPESTS INSIDE OF HER anymore in this episode, or how her rage CANNOT BE SATED WITH ALL THE OCEAN WATER.

[fakaroonie]

Trying so hard to like this. Every episode I get my hopes up... only to get crushed.

Writing feels worse than Shadowlands. Every patch you thought the lore would advance... but nope.

[Syegfryed]

For people waiting a big twist after the eruption, you are not getting one.

Its even more retarded than we could expect, not even here we can have consistency, the same cloud of fire, smoke and ash hit everything and everyone, the buildings? wrecked, torn asunder and catching fire, then you have Galadriel, 100% fine, you can think, hey, maybe everyone was fine, cause it was not that dangerous, regardless of the buildings being fucked, nope, there is some people smoked, there is a horse burning, it was rly selective.

I don't even think anyone important die, obviously, they try to build some drama/fear about uuuh maybe isuldur will die here, but is pointless cause you know he can't die, only people who didn't watch the first minutes of the first movies.

Yeah i can't finish this episode right now, but beware everyone, the totally not hobbits are back.

[Lorca]

Take out the "Lord of the Rings" logo of this series, and then you get a pretty bland and mediocre medieval-fantasy type of Netflix series, where the only thing standing out is basically the scenography.

[Orby]

Episode 7 review

Going to get the bad out of the way quickly because I didn't half mind this episode, but the suspension of disbelief can only get me so far, like are elves heat or magma resistant? Also why was no one coughing under tonnes of falling thick ash?

Also while there were casualties (sort of) I hate that they didn't go that extra bit far and kill off any of the main characters. I thought for certain the alchemist lady would have been killed off, at least add some shock to know that the volcano did something other than kill of a bunch of extras and pointless side characters we hardly knew. Make us care more. If she did die I would have upper the point of this show by one, knowing the creators had some balls. But alas, we do get some drama and some emotion but its very mute. Also didn't like the reveal of Mordor in the end, like couldn't they just say it? or if not, say nothing at all? Did they just want some fancy text up there? What would have been better is if they went tot he map and it just darkened with the name changing there.... also what's happened to the map transitions from the earlier episodes, I liked that?

Okay onto the good, so much drama in this episode. I kind of like it now there are actual stakes. It took 5 episodes of nothing to get to me actually caring about anything.

Galadriel is having her moments with me, she switches likable to dislikeable a lot, but she wasnt half bad in this episode. So thats an improvement I guess, I still find the directing of her acting a bit distracting, like she always has his tense face look to her, and its never dawned on me until now that it makes her look like she's either going to cry or scream.

The Elrond and Durin stuff, once again killing it. I loved the scenes between Durin and his father and the tension there.

The Queen going blind was kind of a shocking scene I do really like the way that was handled, I never cared at all about her until now, and she was really good trying to remain strong despite knowing what's happened to her. This is the closest we got to a casualty to a major character after the volcano explosion I guess.

Also Lloyd Owen who plays Elendil is too good for this show, his acting so so damn good. I actually got emotional in the scene when he tried to calm that horse down before setting it free... Like wow. the one scene in this show to finally make me care is between a man an a horse lol

Overall this episode was less on par with last weeks I think. Still lots of problems but I am at least slightly invested.

6/10

Past reviews.
Episode 1: 6/10
Episode 2: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53897065
Episode 3: 4/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53904070
Episode 4: 6/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53910372
Episode 5: 5/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53916644
Episode 6: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53923548

[bledgor]

ugh, the MC/important characters plot armor is so fucking real in this episode, that it is laughable. Couldn't even singe a few hairs on Galadriel's face as she took a pyroclastic flow the fucking face.

Just like I was told Miriel loses her sight, and Celeborn is mentioned for the first time in past tense, fucking lol. Like she is on this trail of vengence, and her husband is barely mentioned once in seven episodes? LOL

Love how Elendil couldn't lift the debris, how to get help from Miriel to life, Elendil the fucking tall.

Harfoots continue to be awful additions. Hated how they did Elrond this episode, both Durin's continue to hard carry what little interest I have in the show.

One more disappointment to go, at this point I am rooting for Halbrand/Sauron.

Oh also love how the Numenoreans set up such a nice/large camp while riding out to save the town somehow.

[Varodoc]

They really should have just given the ring to Galadriel, given her a quick eagle uber to Mordor, dropped her inside the volcano, and called it a day.

Very clearly the queen is strong enough to tank literal volcanic lava eruption, I'm stunned by her performance!

[InfiniteCharger]

The point is that combat exists purely in the realm of imagination, and is simply not applicable to real life logic or physics.

Trying to analyze the fight scenes is about as pointless as analyzing the combat effectiveness of a pro wrestling match. It misses the point of it literally being imaginary for the sake of entertainment.

Being in the realm of imagination does not mean that they are not based any kind of physics real or otherwise. For example, swords, shields and knives often are exactly modeled on real world physics, even if they take it beyond that by adding things like magical powers. Being taken seriously doesn't mean following real world physics, it means following whatever rules that are defined within that fictional world, again as seen in modern rules for D&D and MMO combat.

Pro wrestling is actually a very serious form of combat because those throws and slams are real, but what makes them fake is that they are choreographed in advance. And that "sport" of wrestling choreography is taken very seriously, because if you don't do those moves correctly somebody can actually get hurt.

None of that has anything to with why the combat in this show is lackluster, which has more to do with the decisions made for this particular show more than anything else. And the job of fantasy is to make you believe in it and for that to work you have to take it seriously.

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Right. I haven't stated that wasn't the case. It isn't clear when the "limited match rights" to his unpublished works were added to the deal. The first reference I can find to it is prior to Christopher publishing some of his fathers stuff. Rings of Power is created because the rights sold didn't cover a TV series. It isn't really a loophole. The appendices were published work which shows that your argument, in regards to this show, doesn't work.

I have never said that Amazon has rights to all his other works. The "limited match rights" was what the SZC had. I'm not sure how you confused the two. The only one making things up here is yourself. You keep responding to arguments that exist only in your head. If there is nothing else for you to say then just leave the conversation. I know what agree to disagree means. So follow your own words and stop. Why do I have to stop when I'm not the one that wants to leave the conversation?

You are repeating yourself again. This show was not the result of any rights given by Tolkien before he died. It does not represent any story he actually wrote and gave rights to covering the second age. He did not intend for the appendices by themselves to be the basis of the story of the 2nd age or anything prior to it. It was intended for the legendarium made up of other works that he had not completed to be the basis of the 2nd age and prior stories. Those works were published after he died and this series does not have the rights to them. It was the Tolkien estate who came up with the idea of creating a television series of more than 8 episodes based on the appendices in 2017, meaning decades after JRR Tolkien had died. So to argue that this convoluted way of assigning the rights to a studio around the story of the 2nd age is what Tolkien intended is blatantly false. That is not what he intended. What he intended was to finish fleshing out the story of the 2nd and prior ages in his legendarium and that those things would be treated as a single consistent continuity from beginning to end. Meaning not something that some studio could just insert their own made up story into that goes against everything else within that larger continuity.

Again, just agree to disagree. There is no point continuing.

We are repeating ourselves.

[Shadowferal]

Compare Aragorn fight with the Uruk hai

[Triceron]

None of that has anything to with why the combat in this show is lackluster, which has more to do with the decisions made for this particular show more than anything else. And the job of fantasy is to make you believe in it and for that to work you have to take it seriously.

Yes but all you're saying is you personally don't believe it, and I can totally understand that.

Suspension of disbelief and believability are 100% subjective, as there are people who will find Pro Wrestling to be enjoyable because they believe it, or they could also enjoy it knowing it's 100% unbelievable and just enjoy it for the ride for what it is. Not all Pro wrestling is the same, not all of it has the same standard of believability or seriousness, not everyone enjoys it the same way.



RoP's combat isn't very believable. Yet the characters in the show do take it seriously. And whether it's entertaining or not is 100% subjective, not defined by me or you or youtuber experts like Shadiversity.