Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[InfiniteCharger]

Again. This is non sequitur. You have no idea of what his intent was, or would have been.

Based on your argument, it's seems you are making the converse error. Just because publishing a work demonstrates a clear intent that it should be read or seen by the public, does not mean that the converse is true. This is because there are many possible reasons for which someone might choose not to publish something and unless you know those reasons, you cannot infer the intent.

That statement is not even an argument in defense of anything. You are just using it to avoid actually showing what is incorrect about that statement because you cant. If you actually are going to claim that the statement is factually invalid then show it. Otherwise the only one pushing non sequitirs is you, because I actually posted the entire letter that you quoted from showing clearly what the man intended.

Where did I say that I think it means he wanted "Amazon or anybody else to come along and completely contradict what he was doing and make up their own stories that go against what he actually spent his life writing"?

That's right. I didn't. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. It's dishonest.

So what is your point? Either you claim to know what the man wanted others to do with his story or you don't. Why are you arguing with me if you don't have anything to back it up? Whether you said it directly or not doesn't change the fact that it is implied that the existence of this show is justified based on what tolkien wrote in his letters, including the sentence that you explicitly quoted. By quoting that sentence you therefore established that these letters are a reflection of his intent and when shown the entire sentence in context, now you claim that you weren't directly arguing against his actual wishes. So why use his words then if you don't agree with them?

I don't see any contradictions. None at all. In fact I see pretty much nothing in his entire letter that even hints at what his attitude towards the idea of someone else creating a whole new story that fits into his universe using the medium of modern television might be...aside from that one line. Everything else basically speaks about the universe itself.

I disagree. You can say it does but I can read perfectly fine and it is clear to me that he spent his life specifically writing a story that was intended to be treated as real history that is so old it forms its own mythology. That means a single continuity of events, characters, themes and so forth that flow in a single timeline from beginning to end. And it is that singular continuity of story, characters and events that he wanted to be respected. If you don't see that then fine, but his words to not speak to a 'multiverse' or 'alternate timelines" or 'alternate imaginings' of these events, which is what you get when others make up stories contradicting what he actually wrote and that includes the PJ films to a lesser degree.

The thing about combat is that being realistic and looking good on screen are mutually exclusive. I did fencing for many years back in my youth. And it looks nothing like The Princess Bride or Game of Thrones. Hell even when actual fencing is shown on screen it looks completely off.

No it isn't. Making a sword fight look good requires a fight choreographer and actors or stuntmen who are physically able to execute the choreography correctly. Case in point most Hong Kong martial arts combat is pure fantasy, but the basis for that goes back to Chinese theater where they used acrobatics to perform the fight choreography. So obviously making that kind of fantasy combat look good on screen and be believable requires skill and talent. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, developing all the various characteristics of Elven combat in terms of how they wielded their swords and how they fought is something I would have liked to see in this series. But that would actually require taking the idea seriously and hiring a fight choreographer and/or martial artist to come up with those weapons and techniques and then train the actors how to do them, which often does happen by the way in the choreography of video game trailers and other types of fiction and fantasy productions.

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Yes but all you're saying is you personally don't believe it, and I can totally understand that.

Suspension of disbelief and believability are 100% subjective, as there are people who will find Pro Wrestling to be enjoyable because they believe it, or they could also enjoy it knowing it's 100% unbelievable and just enjoy it for the ride for what it is. Not all Pro wrestling is the same, not all of it has the same standard of believability or seriousness, not everyone enjoys it the same way.



RoP's combat isn't very believable. Yet the characters in the show do take it seriously. And whether it's entertaining or not is 100% subjective, not defined by me or you or youtuber experts like Shadiversity.

No what I am saying is the act of throwing somebody on the mat in wrestling is real, but it is choreographed and part of a training system all pro wrestlers go through.


It is fight choreography, which takes skill in terms of making it look "real" to the audience, which is no different than what you see in films. And that art of fight choreography is serious in the sense it takes skill and talent to pull off.

[Triceron]

No what I am saying is the act of throwing somebody on the mat in wrestling is real, but it is choreographed and part of a training system all pro wrestlers go through.


It is fight choreography, which takes skill in terms of making it look "real" to the audience, which is no different than what you see in films. And that art of fight choreography is serious in the sense it takes skill and talent to pull off.

So is Arondir getting thrown around by an Orc, or the Galadriel training fight scene, or Halbrand's fight scene in the alley. They are also choreographed fights

I'm not the one equating something fake or unbelievable to being bad. My point is suspension disbelief is subjective, and people's enjoyment of Pro Wrestling and film fights will vary depending on the individual'a threshold for bullshit.

If you post a MMA youtuber's breakdown of how Pro Wrestling is overdramatized or unrealistic, it doesn't get in the way of its entertainment value.

Whether the actual choreography is good or not can be discussed and that would be a different subject to using Shadiversity as some baseline standard for believability.

[DarkAmbient]

For me this was a tie with episode 3 for worst episode. Villagers dead from the eruption but of course the only one who died that we're supposed to care about was Isildur's friend whose name I can't even remember. I was hoping it was Bronwyn's botox-faced corpse under that sheet in the tent but sadly she lives to see another day.

The hobbits continue to be pointless. I had to laugh at the Harfoot's rousing speech about how they "stay true to each, no matter how the path winds or how steep it gets", the same group of hobbits whose culture is to abandon each other to die when they fall behind. Do the writers even talk to each other? lol... The falling leaf stirred the balrog but not all the mining noises? And that ending with the map changing its name was cringe as fuck, Adar should have spoken it.

Elvish medicine can heal terrible wounds but not Miriel's eyes apparently.

The Elrond/Durin scenes are great as usual. I like the white priestess who burned the caravans with magic, she's got potential. I wonder what the source of her magic is?

[Fortress of Arrogance]

For me this was a tie with episode 3 for worst episode. Villagers dead from the eruption but of course the only one who died that we're supposed to care about was Isildur's friend whose name I can't even remember. I was hoping it was Bronwyn's botox-faced corpse under that sheet in the tent but sadly she lives to see another day.

The hobbits continue to be pointless. I had to laugh at the Harfoot's rousing speech about how they "stay true to each, no matter how the path winds or how steep it gets", the same group of hobbits whose culture is to abandon each other to die when they fall behind. Do the writers even talk to each other? lol... The falling leaf stirred the balrog but not all the mining noises? And that ending with the map changing its name was cringe as fuck, Adar should have spoken it.

Elvish medicine can heal terrible wounds but not Miriel's eyes apparently.

The Elrond/Durin scenes are great as usual. I like the white priestess who burned the caravans with magic, she's got potential. I wonder what the source of her magic is?

So Inkwell doesn't die in ep.7 ?
Such a pity.

[rhorle]

This show was not the result of any rights given by Tolkien before he died.

Tell me where I said it was? If you are going to repeat the same lie over and over at least have the decency to point it out. You keep saying published works determined what Tolkien would be fine with adapting or not. Appendices were published and they are being adapted even if it is to create a new story. This is one point where your argument falls apart. You don't know what he intended for his Mythos and published works to do. He has expressed that he would be fine with "new" stories. We have record of one adaptation that made significant changes to Lord of the Rings yet Tolkien didn't want to kill the project because despite those changes he still liked the imagery enough.

So the basis of the 2nd age is unpublished work that we can't use as the basis for anything because it was unpublished? According to your own argument if Tolkien wanted those things to be used he would have published them. Since he did not we can't use them as inspiration for anything since they were not supposed to be given to the public. Another point where you argument falls apart by your own doing.

I'm not saying Rings of Power is what Tolkien intended with "limited matching rights". Don't be daft and fall into the lies you've created. Limited Matching Rights means that a company can match any offers to have "first dibs". It is unclear when that was added to the deal but at the latest it was shortly after the death of JRR as it existed prior to the Silmarillion being published in 1977.

If he was fine with his published work being adapted then he would be fine with "unfinished 2nd age" stuff being adapted. The same principles apply. His work would be changed to fit the adaptation. He did not require strict creative control to him, or his estate, as part of the rights did he? Even when alive he merely consulted and offered his opinion with out stopping projects. It is clear the only one that is placing restrictions on his work is yourself.

If there is no point in continuing why are you continuing? You keep trying to get people to stop while being unable to do so yourself.

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I'm going to guess that the husband of Galadriel was "captured" or something and isn't truly dead. It would be a great way to have Galadriel "tempted" with darkness to rescue him. The trivia for the episode specifically calls out "but his exact fate remains unknown". It depends what "true to Tolkien" means I guess. As Jennifer Salke (Head of Amazon Studios) has said, "the estate was very open and encouraging for reinvention, but always in ways that stay true to Tolkien."

For lacking action or a stand out epic moment the episode wasn't that bad. Still not sure how the season finale will be since Mt.Doom erupting was such a stand out for me. It would have been great to have the sword/eruption interlaced with rings being created. I hope they at least explain the cult and meteor man a little so we won't have to wait until 2024 or later for more context.

[DarkAmbient]

I'm going to guess that the husband of Galadriel was "captured" or something and isn't truly dead. It would be a great way to have Galadriel "tempted" with darkness to rescue him. The trivia for the episode specifically calls out "but his exact fate remains unknown". It depends what "true to Tolkien" means I guess. As Jennifer Salke (Head of Amazon Studios) has said, "the estate was very open and encouraging for reinvention, but always in ways that stay true to Tolkien."

For lacking action or a stand out epic moment the episode wasn't that bad. Still not sure how the season finale will be since Mt.Doom erupting was such a stand out for me. It would have been great to have the sword/eruption interlaced with rings being created. I hope they at least explain the cult and meteor man a little so we won't have to wait until 2024 or later for more context.

Yeah, there's no way Celeborn is dead. They've taken liberties but just having him die already would be lame and rob the show of some potential drama. Not to mention that without Celeborn there's no Arwen.

I also wonder about the finale. Maybe instead of a big epic moment it'll be more of a 'moving all the pieces into place' episode to set up the next season. I'll be pissed off if Meteor Man's identity remains a secret.

[Triceron]

Just watched the episode. Was decent for a follow up to the last episode.

Still loving the Elrond/Durin arc. Everything about this is magic. I love the relationship Durin has with his father, those scenes were fantastic.

I'm not big on the Harfoot arc. It's started okay, then got too overdramatic with the inspiring speech that makes all Harfoots changing their ways... Didn't work for me. I don't care about them enough to see this being their 'Hobbit' moment.

And it felt like the Harfoots just keep getting in the Stranger's way when he's doing his thing. Like, just give him some space, people! I still don't know what they're planning to reveal with the Stranger and the people in white.

Everything else felt mediocre. Will see how the last episode fares.

[Shadowferal]

If anything it'll be 2 years before there's a 2nd season.

[Kumorii]

They keep playing into Halbrand being Sauron. I think this is a good way to get him into Lindon. As I've mentioned before, at this point if he isn't Sauron I will actually be disappointed. Have a hard time seeing them make another character and build that one up enough for it to be satisfying.
He will bring smithing skills to the elf lands which might be considered his "gifts". He will also bring gifts from the elf-lands to whatever city he will end up in, maybe even some of the rings (though I feel the rings won't be made for quite some time, maybe not even season 2, so doubt it). Wouldn't surprise me if the season ends with him making a suspicious devious smile in a scene of joy.

Lloyd Owen actually brings emotion to the scenes is great. Everyone else are so damn stiff. Everyone feels like mannequins.
Gonna look up more stuff he's been in. Apparently he did voice over for the Horizon games. Nothing else in his list rings a bell for me. I'm sure this show will boost his presence though. He deserves it. Him talking to Berek as @Orby mentioned is the best emotional delivery the series has shown yet.

As suspected the bs with Galadriel continues.
People dying, being burned when trying to run and cover themselves. But no scratch on her when face tanking it.
Once again she gives out a lesson that doesn't feel like her character at all. Her saying it's her fault to both Theo and Miriel just shows a lack of humility. Miriel I can understand though, but saying it to Theo... she blows up her own importance. I guess she feels she arrived too late or something which isn't her fault at all.

Dunno what it is, but the more I watch of this show, the smaller every location feels. There's no sense of scale, and it feels empty too.

I feel like the leaf and mithril showcase was kind of squandered. It's get proven by chance when Durin tosses it across the table. However, Gil-galad seemed so sure about it's healing power and Celebrimbor had apparently done tests on the piece of mithril. That would be a great place to give Celebrimbor and Gil-galad some time and show us their efforts in finding it out al. So we know, which we already do know. So the eureka moment feels so forced.
Instead of Elrond just giving the piece back and walking away they could've have Durin holding the leaf as if they were to trade the items and Elrond shows what it can do. Maybe not the best solution. But it would show the still slightly torn relationship between the two considering their trust issues in the past. You will get that "yeah, show him" moment and then I think it would feel more rewarding when the reaction of Durin happens. The table scene felt like a comedy thing tbh.

The cult women is still something I'm a bit excited for, maybe because they haven't revealed enough yet. Her being able to use that kind of magic makes her seem mighty powerful though.

Harfoots flip flops in their messaging. Should they care about each other or leave each other behind?

As someone else mentioned, the name of Mordor being revealed by just the text changing wasn't that good.
I would probably have the map fade in during the pause and have him say Mordor at the same time the text on the map changes to Mordor.

Also what the fuck happened to Mt Doom? Did it shrink?



Presumably this is the ruins of the town everything have taken place in so far. The mountain was goddamn huge and it actually looked great.
Now when you raise the camera just slightly over the town it looks like you are looking down on it. It looks like a small pile of debris not even that far away.
Granted this might not even be mount doom and it's showing one of the side direction (can't be opposite because of the mountains there and the resevoir causing this) but I doubt it. It spews out the smoke that blot out the sun.

Is it just me, or does this shot feel very off in perspective? Or are we to fill in the blanks this is some other place? There has been quite some time after the battle after all.

Wardreg might become Witch King of Angmar as a reward for his service. I mean the guy literally caused the apocalypse and brought forth Mordor. Which I would be alright with.

Balrog is pure fan service atm. Which i'm also alright with because I find them damn cool and they have actually done a good job on the design from what we've been shown so far.

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If anything it'll be 2 years before there's a 2nd season.

afaik they are recording season 2 now. Considering the money involved it can be done in a year and I think 2 years won't be good for hype.
They aspired to be Amazons GoT and that released a new seasons every year, except for 8.

[Specialka]

Yes but all you're saying is you personally don't believe it, and I can totally understand that.

Suspension of disbelief and believability are 100% subjective, as there are people who will find Pro Wrestling to be enjoyable because they believe it, or they could also enjoy it knowing it's 100% unbelievable and just enjoy it for the ride for what it is. Not all Pro wrestling is the same, not all of it has the same standard of believability or seriousness, not everyone enjoys it the same way.



RoP's combat isn't very believable. Yet the characters in the show do take it seriously. And whether it's entertaining or not is 100% subjective, not defined by me or you or youtuber experts like Shadiversity.

Sure, but I can still say that those people that enjoy that kind of fights have shitty taste.

[rhorle]

They keep playing into Halbrand being Sauron. I think this is a good way to get him into Lindon. As I've mentioned before, at this point if he isn't Sauron I will actually be disappointed. Have a hard time seeing them make another character and build that one up enough for it to be satisfying.

They could be going a "horcrux" route. Sauron split himself into different parts. Not completely against the spirit of Tolkien as we have seen the big bad evil weaken themselves to do stuff. It could compliment why the One Ring made Sauron weaker after its creation. Just an idle thought really since there are to many characters that could be Sauron including ones not yet shown on screen.

A recent article had reference one of the showrunners saying "a couple years out" for Season 2 even though production recently started. Not a full quote but it indicates 2024 would be the earliest reasonable expectation. It sucks when 1-year is usually the standard gap between seasons but maybe it will help to polish some of the things people have complained about.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...-2-1235233124/

[Shadowferal]

Rings of Power Season 2's release date may be even worse than you thought

Grab some Lembas bread and a flagon of ale, it’s going to be a long wait for The Rings of Power Season 2. The Lord of the Rings prequel series still has two episodes left in its inaugural season, but in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne reveal when you can expect the Rings of Power Season 2 to debut.

It’s too soon to say for sure, but we do know that production on Season 2 has officially commenced. Season 1 took longer than expected due to certain factors outside even Amazon’s control, but Rings of Power is expected to flow at a faster pace moving forward. Still, before you get too excited, McKay told THR that production of Rings of Power Season 2 will last for “another couple years.”

Considering that production just started, this means we won’t be seeing Rings of Power Season 2 until October 2024 at the soonest. Thankfully, you can always watch The Lord of the Rings extended edition movies on repeat until then.

[Kumorii]

Rings of Power Season 2's release date may be even worse than you thought

Grab some Lembas bread and a flagon of ale, it’s going to be a long wait for The Rings of Power Season 2. The Lord of the Rings prequel series still has two episodes left in its inaugural season, but in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, showrunners Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne reveal when you can expect the Rings of Power Season 2 to debut.

It’s too soon to say for sure, but we do know that production on Season 2 has officially commenced. Season 1 took longer than expected due to certain factors outside even Amazon’s control, but Rings of Power is expected to flow at a faster pace moving forward. Still, before you get too excited, McKay told THR that production of Rings of Power Season 2 will last for “another couple years.”

Considering that production just started, this means we won’t be seeing Rings of Power Season 2 until October 2024 at the soonest. Thankfully, you can always watch The Lord of the Rings extended edition movies on repeat until then.

hmm...well, time will tell if the hype suffers or not by this decision.

[Triceron]

Not too surprised it'd take a couple years. Was it supposed to be a yearly release thing?

[rhorle]

hmm...well, time will tell if the hype suffers or not by this decision.

The Warner Brothers anime "The War of the Rohirrim" might help though it comes out in April 2024. It is in the same universe as the Jackson films and set 183 years prior to. Even though Rings of Power is in a different universe there have been a few boosts to over all IP by well received work. The boosts from Arcane and Edgerunners for example though it is easier to see with Cyberpunk 2077 and its renewed popularity.

[Kumorii]

Not too surprised it'd take a couple years. Was it supposed to be a yearly release thing?

Not sure if it has been said or not. But since 5 seasons were pre-approved and the budget... I don't see why it couldn't.

[Shadowferal]

10yrs...for 5 seasons. Good luck holding interest.

[Northern Goblin]

10yrs...for 5 seasons. Good luck holding interest.

*points to the entire Sherlock fandom*

[Shadowferal]

*points to the entire Sherlock fandom*

I would've gone with Dr Who myself.

[rhorle]

10yrs...for 5 seasons. Good luck holding interest.

It has been 13 years since Avatar 1 was released. It just earned $30 million in a box office re-release. The sequel comes out in December of this year. Big names don't have a problem with holding interest.