1. #6341
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I mean, he has to put a character to stand out and get viewers, so obviously things will be him goofing and ranting, but his opinions are not wrong, he says why he think something and explain it, at least in the few videos i saw, i don't see much of it.
    True but its also the presentation, its the Angry Joe syndrome of reviews I am not a fan of, I kind of outgrew it 10 years ago. Not much constructive is said its just yelling very loudly, and more nit picking for the sake of nit picking and its doesn't create a positive critical outlook, only spreading this bitter angry nerd outlook that no one is going to take seriously outside of conservative white males for the most part. Which it does seem more catered to. No offensive to you conservatives which will no doubt be coming at me now)

    And this isnt me defending the show. I still think the show is underwhelming and hasn't been the standard I expect, but I feel there's a way to present your criticisms. And Shad while I love his history stuff, his very right wing leaning views (and he has admitted he is a right wing Christian conservative) pander to what alot of those right wing or grifty channels provide. And its usually the reason why constructive criticism gets thrown under the bus when it comes to talking about issues with the show. Cos showrunners see their shit and now all criticisms are that, and I aint saying that all those channels have racist or racism agendas but the way they present it does make it come off that way, when you have a thumb nail thats blue haired lady looking triggered, or the constant titles using words like 'SJW' or 'Woke', or constantly highlight the diverse casting picturing them in your thumbnail, then you know how people are going to react.

    His opinion on the Galadriel swordplay, while is legit, you can say the same for every show this way, 90% of shows with sword fighting are bad because the majority of people who watch don't give a shit about how someone swings their sword lol. The show is a play, its acting, its not supposed to be accurate sword play, no one is going to care unless you nit pick it. and sure making videos to analyse these sword play is fun, but its a horrible tool to just bash the show, which doesn't need further help on that :P

    and I know why they do it, these reactions bring in massive views, people love it. And you cannot beat outrage. People love the extreme reactions, no one wants a positive in depth critical piece. people wanna see characters being over the top and silly and loud that's the sad part of it. and you can still have that, but when its your only form of outlook it becomes a bit of an issue.

    EDIT: I also feel bad for calling it Angry Joe syndrome, because it should be AVGN syndrome of review, since I think James Rolfe really made it popular.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-10-04 at 02:36 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  2. #6342
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    There is no "anti-rings of power" fanbase, just people that see the show for what it is, completely amateurish, bad written show that make a mockery of Tolkien work.
    This thread alone broke 100 pages month before the show was out due to people hating on the show without seeing any bad writing or how the show was amateurish, there is absolutely an anti fanbase and has been one since they said they were casting outside of just white people.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #6343
    Breaking down fantasy fights is usually pretty silly anyway. There's absolutely no promise of realism or anything, and "One person is just awesome enough to beat everyone." is a very common trope that's hard to translate visually without just making all the opponents look silly.

  4. #6344
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    This thread alone broke 100 pages month before the show was out due to people hating on the show without seeing any bad writing or how the show was amateurish, there is absolutely an anti fanbase and has been one since they said they were casting outside of just white people.
    That would mean that that fanbase has some level of organisation which is not the case, at least on this forum. Just people not agreeing with the casting choice and so on.

  5. #6345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    This thread alone broke 100 pages month before the show was out due to people hating on the show without seeing any bad writing or how the show was amateurish, there is absolutely an anti fanbase and has been one since they said they were casting outside of just white people.
    Or the trailers just didn’t look good? I went in with blind faith, similar to the halo series, and just hated ROP. It felt like a generic high fantasy series, nothing Tolkien about it except for the name.

    Loved halo though, even with it being against the lore, and even with them, as you put it, “ casting outside of just white people” because apparently disliking something due to its poor acting and worse script makes you racist now.

    Don’t we just love 2022!

  6. #6346
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    This thread alone broke 100 pages month before the show was out due to people hating on the show without seeing any bad writing or how the show was amateurish, there is absolutely an anti fanbase and has been one since they said they were casting outside of just white people.
    I don't have a problem with the casting but I called it out for forced diversity all the same, and I still enjoy the show. Maybe you just don't recognize that different individuals have different opinions without being lumped into some 'anti' group.

    Think of how ridiculous it would be to label anyone who actively likes the show and defends its creative decisions as being 'anti-Tolkien' for the sake of argument.

  7. #6347
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That would mean that that fanbase has some level of organisation which is not the case, at least on this forum. Just people not agreeing with the casting choice and so on.
    You don’t need to be organized to be a fan base or an anti fanbase, hell I doubt you could one a single organized fanbase for any thing you will always have diverging opinions and interest even if people agree they like or dislike something.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Or the trailers just didn’t look good? I went in with blind faith, similar to the halo series, and just hated ROP. It felt like a generic high fantasy series, nothing Tolkien about it except for the name.

    Loved halo though, even with it being against the lore, and even with them, as you put it, “ casting outside of just white people” because apparently disliking something due to its poor acting and worse script makes you racist now.

    Don’t we just love 2022!
    You can go through the thread it’s all still there with handy dates, people were causing a stink when the casting was announced and when just posters were revealed, before any trailers before any one saw any acting or knew any of the script.

    The trailers did last to a stark increase but even before there were any trailers at all you had an anti fanbase growing with YouTubers pumping out hate videos based on jsut the cast/posters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I don't have a problem with the casting but I called it out for forced diversity all the same, and I still enjoy the show. Maybe you just don't recognize that different individuals have different opinions without being lumped into some 'anti' group.

    Think of how ridiculous it would be to label anyone who actively likes the show and defends its creative decisions as being 'anti-Tolkien' for the sake of argument.
    Any one bemoaning Tolkiens works for pages on end with little to no knowledge of said work is absolutely anti Tolkien and there are even one or two people like that in this thread.

    There is also a notable difference between some one being sceptical or having concerns about and people who hate watch just for the sake of complaining and who were bemoaning the show and how awful it would be before we saw any of about it beyond casting.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-10-04 at 04:34 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #6348
    thanks for sharing

  9. #6349
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    There is also a notable difference between some one being sceptical or having concerns about and people who hate watch just for the sake of complaining and who were bemoaning the show and how awful it would be before we saw any of about it beyond casting.
    Guess that all depends on who you talk to, heh. Some people don't seem to regard a difference at all. Like Rhorle.

  10. #6350
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Guess that all depends on who you talk to, heh. Some people don't seem to regard a difference at all. Like Rhorle.
    I can’t say I’ve read enough of Rhorle’s post to say if they fall into that category but there absolutely some people who compound actual hate watching with just any criticism.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #6351
    What I didn't understand last episode is how they got out of that watchtower or w/e it was to get to the village without anyone seeing them. Is there a secret tunnel or something?

  12. #6352
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    What I didn't understand last episode is how they got out of that watchtower or w/e it was to get to the village without anyone seeing them. Is there a secret tunnel or something?
    If they went out in the day then the Orcs may not have been able to scout them out. That's what I figure anyways.

    The show doesn't do a great job of explaining things. It just does it and expects the fans to fill in the blanks however they please, much like how Numenoreans and Galadriel got there so fast. There's bunch of running theories that the show isn't following a sequential timeline and stuff was happening in Numenor days/weeks earlier than the Southlands, etc. Kinda hard to say though since they had that one episode with the meteor to tie together the Harfoot and Southlands plotline timing, but conveniently omitting Galadriel's POV since she wasn't around to see it.

  13. #6353
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they went out in the day then the Orcs may not have been able to scout them out. That's what I figure anyways.

    The show doesn't do a great job of explaining things. It just does it and expects the fans to fill in the blanks however they please, much like how Numenoreans and Galadriel got there so fast. There's bunch of running theories that the show isn't following a sequential timeline and stuff was happening in Numenor days/weeks earlier than the Southlands, etc. Kinda hard to say though since they had that one episode with the meteor to tie together the Harfoot and Southlands plotline timing, but conveniently omitting Galadriel's POV since she wasn't around to see it.
    They were still at the tower when night fell.
    They look up to the tower and then it cuts to the orcs already at the base of the mountain below the tower.

    But I was confused by this as well and looking at it I thought the orc were on the other side of the mountain and the villages just went down on their side...
    But that can't be it since it's a reservoir on the other side of it and mountains around. And the water went through the village so by that account it has to be on the same side...

    I jot it down to teleportation like so many other things. This "filling in the blanks" seems very common, too much in fact.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-10-04 at 05:38 PM.
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  14. #6354
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Kinda hard to say though since they had that one episode with the meteor to tie together the Harfoot and Southlands plotline timing, but conveniently omitting Galadriel's POV since she wasn't around to see it.
    In the trailer Amazon released for the meteor it is implied her eyes are tracking it it. 2 seconds in. However in the actual episode she "tracks" birds instead. Some have a theory that her brothers dagger was "modified" by Sauron and influencing her actions. Maybe it being touched by Valinor "did something". If the Meteor man is not a friendly Maiar/thing it could have summoned him.

    I think it is clear the Meteor appeared at the same time she felt the call of the dagger though. As it streaking across the sky is interwoven with her. The impact even transitions to her jumping in the water with the impact sound still playing as she goes underwater. It is an odd choice if it isn't the same point in time. 0:53 to 0:58 if anyone wants to rewatch that portion of the 1st episode.

    Trailer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALOgprj1xg
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-10-04 at 05:45 PM.
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  15. #6355
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If they went out in the day then the Orcs may not have been able to scout them out. That's what I figure anyways.

    The show doesn't do a great job of explaining things. It just does it and expects the fans to fill in the blanks however they please, much like how Numenoreans and Galadriel got there so fast. There's bunch of running theories that the show isn't following a sequential timeline and stuff was happening in Numenor days/weeks earlier than the Southlands, etc. Kinda hard to say though since they had that one episode with the meteor to tie together the Harfoot and Southlands plotline timing, but conveniently omitting Galadriel's POV since she wasn't around to see it.
    Any show that is set over vast distances wont have all stories running all at the same time, its just simple logic and common sense to accept that, there is only so much you can put into a tv show episode and you dont want to put in everyone travelling all the time or it will waste way too much time better spent on other things.
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  16. #6356
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    They were still at the tower when night fell.
    They look up to the tower and then it cuts to the orcs already at the base of the mountain below the tower.

    But I was confused by this as well and looking at it I thought the orc were on the other side of the mountain and the villages just went down on their side...
    But that can't be it since it's a reservoir on the other side of it and mountains around. And the water went through the village so by that account it has to be on the same side...

    I jot it down to teleportation like so many other things. This "filling in the blanks" seems very common, too much in fact.
    Its fast travel, show runners are playing that 6-d chess with the modern adaptation comment, gotta get the gamers in for a piece of the action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
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  17. #6357
    It's almost depressing to watch some LotR scenes now on youtube with big epic scale armies fighting each other, while now on TV we get 15 peasants defending against 50 orcs. Then a cavalry of 30 people comes in to save the day. I mean... where are all the people?

  18. #6358
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No. What I said was he didn't think any of his work as "finished" so published or unpublished shouldn't matter. And I said the rights to his unfinished work was either sold with UA or added at some point in the future. As Embracer has limited matching rights to other Tolkien work. I never said the SZC (Saul Zaentz not salzance) shopped the rights to a TV series. I said Warner Brothers and the Tolkien Estate (Christopher Tolkien) shopped the rights after the gambling digital app lawsuit.
    You are being dishonest and this is literally what you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Right. That still doesn't mean he wouldn't have because he sold rights to his other works. Those rights also included "limited matching rights" if his other work was ever brought to screen. He was fine with his story being drastically changed because the rights didn't require X rules for adaptations. The only one making stuff up here is yourself because you are trying to definitively state what Tolkien would do. I have repeatedly say there is nothing to indicate either way what he would do. While you, and others, keep trying to state that he wouldn't have done something. Do you understand the difference?

    He didn't intend the entire story to be a whole because he didn't have the entire story finished. Again he wanted to re-write the hobbit to better fit the world of Lord of the Rings. He was constantly changing his world where he wanted to make the world no longer flat. So he was fine with the story being piecemeal because that is how he wrote and how he considered his own work. He wrote things in pieces and went back and fixed or changed things as needed for those new pieces to fit.
    You are wrong and just keep repeating falsehoods trying to sound correct. Tolkien never finished the story of the 2nd aqe and therefore never published it and therefore would not have been OK with someone getting the rights to something unfinished he never published. And certainly he would have never been OK with the appendices being used as the basis for the rights to a story of the 2nd age in a TV series and not even the Silmarilion, Unfinished Tales and his notes. That doesn't even make sense.

    But fine. Believe what you want. No need to keep repeating your nonsensical argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Shad's not bad, he's got a lot of indepth knowledge. But he plays it up and I think he's too opinionated at times. He flips his shit way too easily. Probably part of the character, but it gets old fast.

    I don't even think RoP is worth analyzing, the swordplay is pure fantasy.
    Just because it is fantasy doesn't mean they shouldn't have taken it seriously. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, they could have actually adopted a more "modern" approach as found in D&D to define the fighting skills and training of the elves. I mean they do it in mocap for game trailers all the time and in actual MMO game play. The whole point here is that they have to make the fantasy seem real and if that fantasy is that the elves have their own way of fighting then they should take some effort to show that. Just like they should take the effort to show that Elves are normally very much taller than normal men and that the Numenoreans are larger than most normal men and epic warriors. None of that was done here and that is the reason why it falls so hard on its face. Galadriel is shorter than almost everybody on the set in most cases. That just shows how much they did not care about the lore of middle earth.

  19. #6359
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fakaroonie View Post
    It's almost depressing to watch some LotR scenes now on youtube with big epic scale armies fighting each other, while now on TV we get 15 peasants defending against 50 orcs. Then a cavalry of 30 people comes in to save the day. I mean... where are all the people?
    Aren’t the movies more or less the last stand of all remaining men and elfs in middle earth and orcs who have had tens (hundreds??) of years to grow there size?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #6360
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Or the trailers just didn’t look good? It felt like a generic high fantasy series, nothing Tolkien about it except for the name.
    This is a weird one because visually Tolkien IS pretty much just “generic high fantasy” given how much the genre drew from his works. What made Tolkien special were things like his narrative style, highly descriptive language for scenery, creation of languages, extensive connected lore, and being the one who developed a lot of what are now generic fantasy races. These qualities are either literary in nature or have simply become ubiquitous throughout the genre.

    It’s people like John Howe and Peter Jackson who have set the tone for what LOOKS like Tolkien, and if this show has gotten anything right it’s continuing that visual style.

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