Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Trumpcat]

... It changes zero about the story and just shows that you are being racist just to be racist. A black, asian, or another non-white Frodo would change nothing about Lord of the Rings. Skin color is not important to anything...

But it is, it's called genotype. Skin color is a physical trait of hereditary information and has been developed through evolution under certain environmental factors. Native populations in the tropical and tropical to temperate equatorial zones have darker or "black" skin tones as a natural means to protect from the sun rays. Whereas native populations in the temperate and temperate to polar equatorial regions have lighter or "white" skin tones which tend to produce vitamin D at a much higher rate than "black" skin under less intense sunlight, again, this is nature's way for providing for these populations, so to speak.

The "skin color that doesn't matter" means there are equatorial dwarves, elves, humans and... harfoots, who have moved out of their arid/desert/jungle equatorial regions to Middle Earth and have established themselves to become part of the societies there. As we can see, however, they are rare in between largely "white" populations, yet have retained very distinctly darker skin colors, aka their genotype is largely unchanged. The only way for this to occur is if over however long they've spent in Middle Earth they have reproduced only exclusively with each other, however, the show presents to us the fact that they have not reproduced with each other and have "mixed" parentage, for example the queen's white father and others. This would change the backgrounds of numerous characters and societies, the entire world in fact.

So we reach three roadblocks:
1. The above population thing never happened in Tolkien's work.
2. It is genetically impossible to retain strongly expressed physical traits of a minor genotype over thousands of generations
3. Even if we know nothing about how life works, we should have a minimal reasoning to deduct that different race individuals don't just randomly materialize here and there among a population.

Therefore the only conclusion is to assume the showrunners expect their nonsensical world to be believable only if the viewers are stupid.

[rhorle]

But it is, it's called genotype. Skin color is a physical trait of hereditary information and has been developed through evolution under certain environmental factors.

It is a fantasy world that was flat until the Second Age in order to prevent men from accessing Valinor. He regretted not changing it to be round from the start but never officially changed it. Polar, Equatorial, etc don't apply because it wasn't used as a basis for things in Tolkien's lore. Even then the story doesn't change because different skin tones are present. "Nature's Way" doesn't exist. Evolution wasn't even really a concept because the races were directly created by the Gods.

A black Frodo changes nothing does it? He would still be the same character but with different color skin. None of your explanations actually cover how the story is different because of non-white skin tones. Strange, right? Backgrounds, societies, the entire world, etc do not change just because black skin exists.

It can be as simple as Eru Iluvatar made it possible because you know he is the one that created everything with the help of the Ainur.

[Shadowferal]

It's time to admit that Rings of Power is just fan fiction

We are coming up on the season finale of The Rings of Power and unfortunately, the show’s story problem has not gotten better. In fact, after watching episode 7, I think there’s a chance it is intentionally tearing up the existing story (that it doesn’t have the rights to).

In fact, according to a recent feature from The Hollywood Reporter, the pitch was to create five seasons of TV from the Galadriel-narrated prologue (voiced by Cate Blanchett) from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring. If you think that seems like a difficult task, you’re right, and it's one that showrunners Patrick McCay and J.D. Payne are currently failing.

Through two episodes, this was largely a problem for fans of the Tolkien books, particularly those fans that had read supplementary texts such as The Silmarillion. Since then though, the story problem has grown in scope to the point where major aspects of the Tolkien canon are being thrown out the window. Episode 7 even seems to kill off multiple characters that we know are very much alive in later years, which is the final straw for me.

The Rings of Power is destroying canon to make a TV show, and I want no part of it.
The reality of The Rings of Power is that aside from names and places, nothing is accurate. Yes, eventually Sauron will forge the one Ring (centuries late) but this story is, in essence, completely made up, and we need to just accept that.

What we do not need to do, is watch it. If you are a Tolkien fan, this story is not for you and we should have guessed as much once we figured out what Amazon actually has the rights to.

If you’re someone who just wants to watch a good TV show, you do not have to accept the poor pacing. It's truly shocking that a show that has condensed millennia into hours feels so slow at times. You also don’t need to accept your intelligence insulted by the inclusion of Harfoots (because why would you watch without Hobbits?) or the show's unwillingness to tell a complete story in the interest of making sure you connect with the characters.

Finally, none of us need to accept the way certain characters are treated by The Rings of Power. This should have been the tale of Galadriel, powerful Elven ruler who commands a ring of power. Instead, it's the tale of an immature, undeveloped leader who has simultaneously killed many in pursuit of vengeance while also forgetting her partner’s existence barring a throwaway comment. That’s not fair to us, or to Galadriel, and I want no part of it anymore.

[RobertoCarlos]

Saw a clip of I think it's elrond telling durin that the elves fate is in his hands. Can see why this show pisses off the LOTR fans.

Such a badly acted scene and undermines so many elements of elven and dwarf relationships through out the books where even being given a strand of hair has important implications.

[rogoth]

So you admit you are discussing the show in bad faith. As you are creating your own version of the show just to further complain. The Southlands on the show are not Gondor and Ithillien. It is Mordor, Nurn, and other surrounding parts. What could be called "Gondor and Ithillien" on the show is Pelargir. The Ephel Duath mountains seperate Mordor and Gondor. Minas Ithil (Minas Morgul) is on the western edge of those mountains and was the eastern most part of Gondor (and Ithillien). The Southlands thus doesn't contain anything of Gondor on the show as it was to the east of the Ephel Duath.

Did you even watch the show? Because all of this would be clear if you did. There is no reason to ignore Tolkien's own lore and invent your own head canon in order to criticize this show. There are plenty of real things to complain about so delusion and lies have no place.

so it's fine for activists to do it on a mega project that supposedly costs $1B, but i'm not allowed to?, so you finally gave up your point of view, thank you for finally showing your true colours.

just to be clear, the entire 'southlands' region that this show is supposedly trying to reference, covers the entire region of Gondor, the entire region of ithillien, the entire region of the slave fields of nurn, the entire region of the morgul vale, the entire region of lossarnach stretching all the way to pinnath gelin, they are trying to claim the entire 'southlands' is all of this land, based on the multiple 'indiana jones style' maps that they use when doing a world tour to fill minutes because they haven't got anything else to put in there.

http://https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/20...cation-mordor/

this is utterly moronic, and you're the only person here arguing in bad faith because time and time and time again it's proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that your points are wrong, and yet here you are still trying to pick apart the points made to make it seem like you have any semblance of an arguement, just stop please, you're not helping yourself or anybody else here by dying on this hill.

[rhorle]

so it's fine for activists to do it on a mega project that supposedly costs $1B, but i'm not allowed to?

Yes. You are not the one producing the show so you can't just create new lore for the show because you feel like it. Do you truly not understand a basic concept like that? Lmao.

The Southlands on the show does not cover all of Gondor. As I said the show clearly is covering east of the Ephel Duath mountains. The video Amazon has depicts the name differently then a picture in the article you linked to. Even Episode 1 when first introducing the area the name doesn't stretch beyond the borders of Mordor. Neither does the map in episode 3. It is possible they changed its scope at some point but the story clearly does not involve Gondor as you originally claimed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAFbx0lUtk

[Triceron]

Can you point out the people who blindly love this show as much as some of the people who blindly hate it? Have people claimed this show deserves academy awards prior to watching a single episode? I don't know who these "yeasayers" are so you're going to have to elaborate.

Check some of Kenn's posts then.

[Xath]

From many sources, the showrunners are people who spent ten years getting their script from movies cut out, then they went to series, and out of the gate they take this job.

Not only that, they said they came up with the entire thing in one day, no rehash, no refine, no re-reading and changing things, just one day and done. Sadly, this seems to be the truth, as this have the looks of something unfinished, a plot without sense or logic.

I just feel pity from some actors, who were dragged down by this show.

So basically they took the scripts that got cut for being shit and tossed LoTR trappings on top of them.

- - - Updated - - -

so it's fine for activists to do it on a mega project that supposedly costs $1B, but i'm not allowed to?, so you finally gave up your point of view, thank you for finally showing your true colours.

just to be clear, the entire 'southlands' region that this show is supposedly trying to reference, covers the entire region of Gondor, the entire region of ithillien, the entire region of the slave fields of nurn, the entire region of the morgul vale, the entire region of lossarnach stretching all the way to pinnath gelin, they are trying to claim the entire 'southlands' is all of this land, based on the multiple 'indiana jones style' maps that they use when doing a world tour to fill minutes because they haven't got anything else to put in there.

http://https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/20...cation-mordor/

this is utterly moronic, and you're the only person here arguing in bad faith because time and time and time again it's proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that your points are wrong, and yet here you are still trying to pick apart the points made to make it seem like you have any semblance of an arguement, just stop please, you're not helping yourself or anybody else here by dying on this hill.

I am 90% sure they haven't actually read LoTR or the Hobbit let alone the appendixes or sil just like they hadn't read WoT but still tried to argue stuff with people who had multiple times. It's like trying to write a book report off Wikipedia it's very obvious to anyone who has actually read the book that you haven't.

[Syegfryed]

So basically they took the scripts that got cut for being shit and tossed LoTR trappings on top of them..

Pretty much, or, i dunno, every time their script got cut they make a new shit one

[Heathy]

I still don't mind the show but yeah it is significantly flawed.

this popped up in my recommendeds and even though I don't mind the show or at least i'm willing to watch it through. I don't disagree with this summary.



what was that heart warming speech the half-foots gave in the end of that last episode that sounded completely contradictory to their way of life and just leaving ppl behind. did them losing all their caravans give them a sense of perspective i'm not sure what was going on there. it was a nice speech but I failed to see how it connected with the way they've lived so far. the show seems to lack a sense of self awareness. but that is just one of the issues.

[Alanar]

Just watched the episode. Was decent for a follow up to the last episode.

Still loving the Elrond/Durin arc. Everything about this is magic. I love the relationship Durin has with his father, those scenes were fantastic.

I'm not big on the Harfoot arc. It's started okay, then got too overdramatic with the inspiring speech that makes all Harfoots changing their ways... Didn't work for me. I don't care about them enough to see this being their 'Hobbit' moment.

And it felt like the Harfoots just keep getting in the Stranger's way when he's doing his thing. Like, just give him some space, people! I still don't know what they're planning to reveal with the Stranger and the people in white.

Everything else felt mediocre. Will see how the last episode fares.

Didnt like vilager 3 speech about keep going?

The harfoots kinda block more scenes with the stranger it feels like for me.. they take up so much time in that episode.. just wanted to skip it( and I did)

[Trumpcat]

It is a fantasy world that was flat until the Second Age in order to prevent men from accessing Valinor. He regretted not changing it to be round from the start but never officially changed it. Polar, Equatorial, etc don't apply because it wasn't used as a basis for things in Tolkien's lore. Even then the story doesn't change because different skin tones are present. "Nature's Way" doesn't exist. Evolution wasn't even really a concept because the races were directly created by the Gods.

A black Frodo changes nothing does it? He would still be the same character but with different color skin. None of your explanations actually cover how the story is different because of non-white skin tones. Strange, right? Backgrounds, societies, the entire world, etc do not change just because black skin exists.

It can be as simple as Eru Iluvatar made it possible because you know he is the one that created everything with the help of the Ainur.

Skin color is a trait of a different race, it's not the same race. It changes the story because it means different races mixed with each other, yet somehow also didn't mix and thus retained their physical traits, like different skin color and it profoundly breaks canon because Tolkien never wrote this. How difficult it is to acknowledge a basic concept?

However, the show has numerous failures that make the race absurd really insignificant. The show isn't bad because they have popped up people of color here and there, it's bad because it is illogical on a basic level.

[MCMLXXXII]

Yeah we had this discussion 10 times already, it's irrelevant.

[Gumble]

it's irrelevant.

Looking at the ratings slide for this show and how nobody is talking about it.......

[Triceron]

Skin color is a trait of a different race, it's not the same race. It changes the story because it means different races mixed with each other, yet somehow also didn't mix and thus retained their physical traits, like different skin color and it profoundly breaks canon because Tolkien never wrote this. How difficult it is to acknowledge a basic concept?

However, the show has numerous failures that make the race absurd really insignificant. The show isn't bad because they have popped up people of color here and there, it's bad because it is illogical on a basic level.

Well people in Rings of Power have the genetics of cats apparantly.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Looking at the ratings slide for this show and how nobody is talking about it.......

This thread has gotten like 20 pages in a week, even if it’s twice as lively as the general talk around the show that’s a lot of people talking about it.

[Syegfryed]

More and more i ponder this show i come to the realization that this is indeed a random cliche fantasy story but since it was not good, no one accepted, then it was transplanted to the second age using Tolkien world as foundation, that is the only explanation for all the plotholes, nonsenses and lore assassination.

Like, there are times characters just seem to teleport to some places, like Elrond just appearing at the doorstep of the dwarves, despite being a days long journey, this could only be explained by teleportation, the story they make up before had it, but Tolkien don't, then they just ignored and didn't adjust it.

How can they survive a pyroclastic disaster like that? well, in some fantasy worlds that is normal, people can endure fireballs in the chest, but not in Middle-earth.

All this plot about elves losing the light and needing the mithril that suddenly have the light of a silmaril, then dwarves suddenly giving two shits about elves, seems like a plot from another story all together.

Orcs being like vampires that actually burn in the sun(and only when they remember, cause episode 6 have orcs in the sunlight just fine), that now and then seems to just not use any weapons, seems like another kind story with another creatures as villains

Maybe it could have been a mediocre high magic fantasy story, that you could turn off your brain and enjoy, but since it was transplanted to this universe and was not well adjusted, it was fucked.

[BigToast]

This thread has gotten like 20 pages in a week, even if it’s twice as lively as the general talk around the show that’s a lot of people talking about it.

It's really 3 or 4 people arguing in circles and insulting each other.

[Triceron]

This thread has gotten like 20 pages in a week, even if it’s twice as lively as the general talk around the show that’s a lot of people talking about it.

Most of which is people criticizing the show and people criticizing the critics

Don't think there's been much praising overall. Just people being defensive saying the show isn't as bad as people think, or some blanket 'the show is good because many people are watching it' response.

Echo chamber of a thread really.

[Gumble]

This thread has gotten like 20 pages in a week, even if it’s twice as lively as the general talk around the show that’s a lot of people talking about it.

Their entire viewership is posting here, and its only half the posters.