Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Veggie50]

What i meant is they will use the plot of her brother Finrod for her husband, hence the switch out, Finrod didn't died by Sauron, he was captured for i don't know how long.

They will prob make this plot of the "captive elf" be Celeborn.

Very possible yes, that seems like a second plausible route.

Except Finrod did die in captivity I believe...

[s_bushido]

I think that's a given, yea... Question is, how do they explain his absence/return.

Since she said he was missing but not confirmed dead, my first thought was that he's been a POW for however long.

[Raelbo]

That statement is not even an argument in defense of anything. You are just using it to avoid actually showing what is incorrect about that statement because you cant. If you actually are going to claim that the statement is factually invalid then show it. Otherwise the only one pushing non sequitirs is you, because I actually posted the entire letter that you quoted from showing clearly what the man intended.

I never said your statement is factually invalid. I said it was a non sequitur. In other words your argument is logically invalid because what you are saying does not follow from the facts you are quoting.

Sure, you're able to point to the fact that only the two books were actually published. This is not a fact in dispute. I am telling you that what you want to pretend follows that from that fact, ie that he actively wanted his works to not ever be taken and used in the future by Amazon for a TV show, is completely unsubstantiated. The fact that his other works were never published tells us very little about what he would/would not have wanted done with them after his death.

So what is your point? Either you claim to know what the man wanted others to do with his story or you don't. Why are you arguing with me if you don't have anything to back it up?

Because in the absence of evidence either way, your argument fails. While it certainly wouldn't hurt, we don't need positive affirmation that Tolkien would have approved of this show to justify. We simply need to not have evidence that proves he would not have approved of it.

Whether you said it directly or not doesn't change the fact that it is implied that the existence of this show is justified based on what tolkien wrote in his letters, including the sentence that you explicitly quoted.

The existence of this show is justified by the fact that you have both people willing to make it and people willing to watch it without any legal impediment to doing so.

By quoting that sentence you therefore established that these letters are a reflection of his intent and when shown the entire sentence in context, now you claim that you weren't directly arguing against his actual wishes. So why use his words then if you don't agree with them?

Who says I don't agree with them? I am saying that I don't see anything in his letters which say what you want them to say: ie that Tolkien would have disapproved of this show. If anything I take from the letters that Tolkien would have been happy for others to pick up the proverbial torch and continue to expand on parts of his story.

I disagree. You can say it does but I can read perfectly fine and it is clear to me that he spent his life specifically writing a story that was intended to be treated as real history that is so old it forms its own mythology. That means a single continuity of events, characters, themes and so forth that flow in a single timeline from beginning to end. And it is that singular continuity of story, characters and events that he wanted to be respected.

I was talking about whether or not he would have wanted others to expand his story. You're talking about whether he would have wanted the integrity of his story respected. These are not mutually exclusive. Even if you want to argue that he didn't want someone to come along and butcher his work, that is not the same as saying he didn't want someone to come along and expand his work.

If you don't see that then fine, but his words to not speak to a 'multiverse' or 'alternate timelines" or 'alternate imaginings' of these events, which is what you get when others make up stories contradicting what he actually wrote and that includes the PJ films to a lesser degree.

So let's see:
1) Tolkien was not averse to iterating his own work in order to improve the integrity of his universe.
2) Tolkien was not averse to having others expand upon and fill in some of the blanks which he never got around to.

Now sure, there will always be the question of whether the people who try to do this get it right or not, but that's a very different proposition from saying that it should never have been attempted in the first place.

And I am glad you bring up PJ. Because I honestly believe that with the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he did about as good a job as was/is humanly possible in bringing that story to the screen. Sure, it's not without its flaws. But what great work (including the original books) isn't? What is absurd, however, is the rabid fans who like to shred these things from their armchairs, nitpicking at stuff that no reasonable human being should be taking issue with and then blowing it massively out of proportion.

And to be clear, I have no issue with people spotting things and pointing them out, or venturing opinions on how a scene might have been improved. What I do take exception to is when people allow the little things to detract from what really is a fantastic work of art.

No it isn't. Making a sword fight look good requires a fight choreographer and actors or stuntmen who are physically able to execute the choreography correctly. Case in point most Hong Kong martial arts combat is pure fantasy, but the basis for that goes back to Chinese theater where they used acrobatics to perform the fight choreography. So obviously making that kind of fantasy combat look good on screen and be believable requires skill and talent. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, developing all the various characteristics of Elven combat in terms of how they wielded their swords and how they fought is something I would have liked to see in this series. But that would actually require taking the idea seriously and hiring a fight choreographer and/or martial artist to come up with those weapons and techniques and then train the actors how to do them, which often does happen by the way in the choreography of video game trailers and other types of fiction and fantasy productions.

So...I talk about how making combat look realistic and making a fight look good are mutually exclusive. Your response is tell me I'm wrong and then wax lyrical about how choreography can make fights look good. Epic facepalm.

So I'll say it again. As an experienced martialist - someone who did fencing for 15 years, competed in literally hundreds of tournaments, with a box full of medals, including being a national champion, in addition to having done both Judo and Tae kwon do for several years each, I am telling you right now that what looks good on screen does not look anything like real combat. There is a reason why a sport like fencing gets very little television coverage, in favor of sports like WWE etc. Because unless you're specifically setting out to make the fight look good by doing a bunch of flashy shit that no one with any combat experience would, in their right mind, do in a real fight, it's going to look dull and boring.

So, if you have an issue with the fight choreography in this show, insisting that they try make it more "realistic" is only going to make things worse.

It is fight choreography, which takes skill in terms of making it look "real" to the audience, which is no different than what you see in films.

No. The skill is in making it look good, not real. The two are categorically not the same thing, and I don't think I have ever seen a fight scene which achieves both. I think my favourite swordfight of all time is Inigo Montoya dueling with Westley in the Princess Bride. But as a fencer I could point out 2-3 flaws per second with that fight, ranging from turning their backs on each other with silly spins, attacking each others' swords (instead of, you know, each other's bodies), lots of flashy waving of blades etc etc etc. A real duel would more likely be two opponents cautiously keeping distance trying to maneuver themselves into a position from which to attack effectively. And once the attack actually happens, it would be over in less than a second. Either the attacker would succeed and the defender's parry would be evaded, or the defender will parry and riposte instantly. Very rarely would it get to a counter riposte or counter-counter riposte.

But like I have already said. That just doesn't look very exciting on screen. Which is exactly why they don't try it.

[Flurryfang]

I kinda get why we have to wait 2 years to get next season. Its quite clear, that they know they lost this battle for the first season and that they have to create some space between the seasons, so season 2 can get a fresh chance.

Its also well needed. The show is confusing, unfocused and filled with "newbie" mistakes when it comes to story writing and filmmaking. I wonder if the rights for the show and pre-production cost so much, that they had to cut things lean when it came to actual production.

Cause it seems like the major problem in the show, is all about the production. The editing is all right, the CGI is not bad and the look of the show is quite good. But the show itself, when it was filmed and planned, is horrible. Like.... WHY ARE THERE 5 STORIES HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME??

It's a huge mistake to start out as big as they did and it just makes the entire story fail as it goes. And that is not something you can save in post-production.

I hope that they see, that they need a total rework of how they make the show and choose a brand new method, cause the current one is hell.

[Rennadrel]

Looking at the ratings slide for this show and how nobody is talking about it.......

The only people who are talking about it are those that are dunking on it for being the biggest waste of money ever. I honestly would be surprised if daddy Bezos allows this shitshow to continue for much longer before drastic changes are made. Maybe if he sacks the people who have been writing and producing this crap thus far, maybe the remaining seasons can be made into something salvageable. But it won't be at this point.

[Levelfive]

The only people who are talking about it are those that are dunking on it for being the biggest waste of money ever. I honestly would be surprised if daddy Bezos allows this shitshow to continue for much longer before drastic changes are made. Maybe if he sacks the people who have been writing and producing this crap thus far, maybe the remaining seasons can be made into something salvageable. But it won't be at this point.

Yeah I'm sure he's really sweating it.

From 10/5: "Amazon's The Lord of the Rings prequel series, set to run for five seasons, is already breaking viewership records"

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/cultur...reaming-record

[Orby]

Looking at the ratings slide for this show and how nobody is talking about it.......

depends who you are watching, there are plenty of people talking about it, both in a constructive and outrage point of view. I use those two terms because I don't think anyone I am watching thinks the shows are the best of great. They tend to range from about 'just fine' to 'shit'. I personally fall into the 'its okay' area :P

[crusadernero]

I kinda get why we have to wait 2 years to get next season. Its quite clear, that they know they lost this battle for the first season and that they have to create some space between the seasons, so season 2 can get a fresh chance.

Its also well needed. The show is confusing, unfocused and filled with "newbie" mistakes when it comes to story writing and filmmaking. I wonder if the rights for the show and pre-production cost so much, that they had to cut things lean when it came to actual production.

Cause it seems like the major problem in the show, is all about the production. The editing is all right, the CGI is not bad and the look of the show is quite good. But the show itself, when it was filmed and planned, is horrible. Like.... WHY ARE THERE 5 STORIES HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME??

It's a huge mistake to start out as big as they did and it just makes the entire story fail as it goes. And that is not something you can save in post-production.

I hope that they see, that they need a total rework of how they make the show and choose a brand new method, cause the current one is hell.

I dont see any reasons why its bad that there is several storylines to follow already. Its nice. It builds up the show and makes the world feel more involved to whats happening. Everything that happens in every storyline is connected to eachother one way or another and in the end it will be brought together. Just like it was with GoT most of the seasons. Lots going on.

Look at house of dragons. Literally one storyline, nothing else. Family drama in the keep, thats it. NOthing else, just talks about whats going on out there. In shows like these, with huge fantasy worlds, its better with several storylines than one. Overall, after all seasons are done it should make more sense.

That said - This show could have been done so much better, especially the production, acting and how they desided to present the story. Swing and a miss tbh. Just like house of dragons lives off GoT, this show lives off LoTR.

- - - Updated - - -

depends who you are watching, there are plenty of people talking about it, both in a constructive and outrage point of view. I use those two terms because I don't think anyone I am watching thinks the shows are the best of great. They tend to range from about 'just fine' to 'shit'. I personally fall into the 'its okay' area :P

Think most people find the show OK. But, I also think people wanted it to be great. Its not.

[Gumble]

Yeah I'm sure he's really sweating it.

From 10/5: "Amazon's The Lord of the Rings prequel series, set to run for five seasons, is already breaking viewership records"

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/cultur...reaming-record

Didn't read the article did you? They bent over backwards to say "see, our first few episodes had alot of viewers!"..... please ignore that we haven't provided real numbers or how its gone since the first episode....

They have moved the filming location because it costs too much, there have been reports of them cutting back the budget because the show isn't generating the response they hoped for, and the fan sites are all about House of the Dragon.

You can wager that Bezos is actually quite upset at how poorly his show is doing compared to HBO's show, especially given the massive price tag.


Season 2 is set to be delayed a long time, which gives them time to cancel it during the long break if they cannot find a way to fix it.

[Syegfryed]

I dont see any reasons why its bad that there is several storylines to follow already. Its nice. It builds up the show and makes the world feel more involved to whats happening. Everything that happens in every storyline is connected to eachother one way or another and in the end it will be brought together. Just like it was with GoT most of the seasons. Lots going on.

One thing the show does not is making you feel involved with the world with all those nonsenses and deus ex machinas happening all the time.

IT nice to have multiple storylines connected, but when you can pull it off, when it makes sense, none of this do and the connection lead to something even more garbage.

3 boats with 300 people, horses and supplies that arrived trough space time in the exact location in the exact moment in time to help a small shit village, like they knew exactly where they should go, like the people in the vilalge asked for help, its awful.

Look at house of dragons. Literally one storyline, nothing else. Family drama in the keep, thats it. NOthing else, just talks about whats going on out there. In shows like these, with huge fantasy worlds, its better with several storylines than one. Overall, after all seasons are done it should make more sense.

If one or several stories are better is debatable, but there is much more in HoD than just family drama, as you would notice with the war with the triarchy and all the games with the houses, since every move they do have great impact, yes it focus on the house of the dragon, but to say its nothing else is being disingenuous.

The series should not wait 6 seasons of 8 episodes to make sense.

That said - This show could have been done so much better, especially the production, acting and how they desided to present the story. Swing and a miss tbh. Just like house of dragons lives off GoT, this show lives off LoTR.

I didn't quite understand your last sentence, but the show could have been done better with actually decent writers that could make a story make sense and be good, that is foundation of the show and it failed so hard that from years people will talk about how bad this was.

Think most people find the show OK. But, I also think people wanted it to be great. Its not.

Show would be ok for a netflix low budget with another ip.

[Rennadrel]

Yeah I'm sure he's really sweating it.

From 10/5: "Amazon's The Lord of the Rings prequel series, set to run for five seasons, is already breaking viewership records"

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/cultur...reaming-record

If you actually trust what sycophant media and what Amazon says their numbers are, I've got a bridge to sell you. Streaming platforms are not beholden to actually be truthful about what their viewership numbers are. Amazon has tens of millions of Prime users, and we know that historically they've been struggling to get anywhere near the numbers that shows like GoT pulled at its peak. So if you actually believe what they say, then you really are a fool because there's no way this trash fan fiction is doing the numbers they claim they are.

[Levelfive]

Didn't read the article did you? They bent over backwards to say "see, our first few episodes had alot of viewers!"..... please ignore that we haven't provided real numbers or how its gone since the first episode....

They have moved the filming location because it costs too much, there have been reports of them cutting back the budget because the show isn't generating the response they hoped for, and the fan sites are all about House of the Dragon.

You can wager that Bezos is actually quite upset at how poorly his show is doing compared to HBO's show, especially given the massive price tag.


Season 2 is set to be delayed a long time, which gives them time to cancel it during the long break if they cannot find a way to fix it.

By all means, link your sources, then. Because otherwise it sounds like you're making stuff up: "The Rings of Power, Amazon's mega-budget TV prequel to Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings film franchise, is closing on 100 million viewers according to streamer big wig Jennifer Salke. For context: that's the entire population of the UK and a whole lot of change, a month on from its premiere at the beginning of September. And the series, estimated to cost £49 million per episode, is just in its first of five seasons. Notably, Amazon already confirmed early in September that The Rings of Power was their biggest premiere of all time.

Salke revealed the huge viewership figs in conversation with Variety. “We're cresting toward 100 million customers having watched it so… it's a big number,” she told the magazine. No kidding. “We really anticipate, with these last three episodes, a huge turnout, because it's all coming together and curiosity is at a fever pitch. And these last few episodes are the strongest in the season, because they're not just about setup. They're excellent.”

The first season was given a gargantuan $450 million (approx. £395 million in current fluctuating rates, depending on the day) price tag, which Salke attributes to “building infrastructure for five seasons.” What does that include? Nowt less than a “small city,” apparently. “We were always going to spend what we needed to spend to get it right,” she continues. “I think it was all money really well spent. If you look at how people are reacting to the visual experience of the show, that's been overwhelmingly positive.” And indeed, at least audiences can see what's happening on screen — unlike the other mega-franchise fantasy TV prequel on air.

So how have critics responded to the show so far? Early reviews of the first season give it an 84% aggregate score on Rotten Tomatoes, with the latest episode, “Udün,” being called “The Rings of Power's most conventionally satisfying" yet. It's taken a while to get through the tomes of Tolkienian lore and hefty setup, but the show finally looks as though it's paying dividends — not to imply that the production value was ever in question. “Moment for moment, this is the most exciting episode of The Rings of Power we've seen,” wrote Vulture critic Keith Phipps in his five-star review.

Elsewhere, The Hollywood Reporter confirmed that season two has started filming just outside London, moving away from New Zealand where the debut season shot during the Covid pandemic. It's set to introduce Círdan, “the oldest and wisest of the elves,” who is yet to be cast. Let's see if we can't get a hold of Bezos' notes…"

The embedded link refers to the first 2 episodes being streamed 25 million times, which means the first 3rd, as of the GQ article, got roughly a fourth of the total.

Here's more: "Based on Salke's comments, it sounds like Amazon Studios is fast-tracking Rings of Power season 2 and working tirelessly to get it out for audiences as soon as possible. This is hardly a surprise given the show's first official Nielsen ratings were recently released and revealed that Rings of Power topped the streaming charts in its debut week with a whopping 1.3 billion minutes watched just for the first two episodes. Viewership should only increase during the ramp-up to the season 1 finale. With audience turnout so high, it makes sense for Amazon to deliver a second season before interest has a chance to dwindle.

With Amazon Studios intent on fast-tracking production, Rings of Power season 2 could premiere a lot sooner than initially expected. Filming is already underway, though considering the show's huge production scale, it likely won't be ready to air until late next year at the earliest. But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2."

And more: "Rings of Power Season 2 is full steam ahead – and one of the oldest elves and ring bearer will be joining the story.

The show has set some hefty records for the streaming service. The first official Neilson Ratings reported that there was 1.25 billion minutes of viewing time (an average of 9.5 million viewers) following its Sept. 1 premiere, making it one of their top debuts. It’s hard to argue that this hasn’t been a success for them, as much as you may hate the show. Based on the numbers, Amazon’s gamble has paid off.

Due in part to this success, Season 2 started filming before Season 1 has finished airing."


The articles I linked are from 10/4-10/5--doesn't sound to me like he's real upset. Like if you hate the show, whatever, you're free to do that, but this need some of you have to prove the world hates it with you so far is going unmet.

[s_bushido]

If you actually trust what sycophant media and what Amazon says their numbers are, I've got a bridge to sell you.

"Anything that contradicts my preconceptions must be a conspiracy to lie to everyone!"

Pathetic.

[Levelfive]

"Anything that contradicts my preconceptions must be a conspiracy to lie to everyone!"

Pathetic.

Lol so much copium. I wonder why it's not sufficient for them to hate it, they have to convince themselves everyone else does, too.

[bledgor]

...

I mean you ignoring the massive negative press/reviews/online presence the show has, the fact all outside data (since Amazon has been SILENT on numbers other than the release) show it dropping (see earlier in the thread, think even episode 1 to 2 was a 30% drop). Not to mention you have outdated news since Season 2 was forced to be delayed when they moved filming from New Zealand to England and have to ship/rebuild the set.

The show was literally gifted the best of EVERY possible situation and has ended up being middle of the pack AT BEST, considering it had: the largest budget, perhaps the most renowned source material, and a streaming platform that tens of millions are already on + one that gives daily life benefits. Last ratings I saw that the show had fallen to 4th in streaming numbers, which is not good news at all. Especially when you are sinking ~60 million an episode into this.

If they want to turn the ship around they really just need to fire basically their entire writing staff and hire new producers, cause Payne and Mckay are fucking idiots.

Like love or hate the show, the writing is subpar, the dialogue oscillates between bad and cringe, and the choreography suspect at best.

[Levelfive]

I mean you ignoring the massive negative press/reviews/online presence the show has, the fact all outside data (since Amazon has been SILENT on numbers other than the release) show it dropping (see earlier in the thread, think even episode 1 to 2 was a 30% drop). Not to mention you have outdated news since Season 2 was forced to be delayed when they moved filming from New Zealand to England and have to ship/rebuild the set.

The show was literally gifted the best of EVERY possible situation and has ended up being middle of the pack AT BEST, considering it had: the largest budget, perhaps the most renowned source material, and a streaming platform that tens of millions are already on + one that gives daily life benefits. Last ratings I saw that the show had fallen to 4th in streaming numbers, which is not good news at all. Especially when you are sinking ~60 million an episode into this.

If they want to turn the ship around they really just need to fire basically their entire writing staff and hire new producers, cause Payne and Mckay are fucking idiots.

Like love or hate the show, the writing is subpar, the dialogue oscillates between bad and cringe, and the choreography suspect at best.

I literally just linked you evidence that it hasn't been silent on numbers other than release, and if the articles from the 4th and 5th that talk about moving filming back to England ("The first season was shot over 18 months in New Zealand during the height of the pandemic. Production has moved to Bray Studios in the U.K. for the second season. As with season one, there will be eight episodes. No release date is available, but production is in full swing") are outdated, link the updated info. You can hate something and be in the minority, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Raisei]

I dont see any reasons why its bad that there is several storylines to follow already. Its nice. It builds up the show and makes the world feel more involved to whats happening. Everything that happens in every storyline is connected to eachother one way or another and in the end it will be brought together. Just like it was with GoT most of the seasons. Lots going on.

Yet despite the 5 plot threads I feel that very little is going on. Just take the Galadriel plot. She was supposed to go back home, jumped ship, landed in Numenor, met Halbrand, got an army and returned to Middleearth to witness Mount Doom exploding. That is all. It took them what 6 hours alltogether to tell this? It's a lot of padding and a lot of Galadriel making herself look like an ass.
And that is one of the more rich storylines. The Hobbits have been traveling for the last 5 episodes with next to nothing happening, except that they have shown themselves to be horrible people.

Look at house of dragons. Literally one storyline, nothing else. Family drama in the keep, thats it.

Yet I would argue that in that one storyline we have more happening then in the entire five of Rings. It is really difficult to compare the quality of those shows.

House has excellent actors, prefectly casted for their roles, with excellent dialogue, Rings has very weak actors that seem to really strugle projecting emotion (case in point: Galadriel has exactly one facial expression for nearly the entire season) that are very weirdly casted. Can you really look at the Elrond actor and think: Yeah, that one will be Hugo Weaving in a thousand years? Nah no way.
Plus it feels like there is an inherent irony in most scenes and I am not sure the showrunners realize this. Like Galadriel talking about Humility when she has been the least humble person in the entire series or the Proto-Hobbits proclaiming that "no one is left behind" while trying everything possible to leave Nori and her hurt father behind.

Just imagine what the showrunner of House could have done with the money that Rings is blowing up for each episode... geezus...

[bledgor]

I literally just linked you evidence that it hasn't been silent on numbers other than release, and if the articles from the 4th and 5th that talk about moving filming back to England ("The first season was shot over 18 months in New Zealand during the height of the pandemic. Production has moved to Bray Studios in the U.K. for the second season. As with season one, there will be eight episodes. No release date is available, but production is in full swing") are outdated, link the updated info. You can hate something and be in the minority, there's nothing wrong with that.

1. The article you linked admits a 2023 date is unlikely, and most sources have said 2024, which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said.

2. Once again the article you linked talked about hitting 100 million (actually they admit is getting close, not hit yet) at episode 6 means a hefty fall off, considering they had 25 million the first episode, iirc 30% fallout between 1 and 2 means 17.5 for episode 2, meaning the last 4 averaged ~14.4 million, almost a 50% drop from episode 1. Considering the online presence of the show is largely negative and the fact the show is not having good legs, it does no bode well.

3. You can see a similar trajectory in RoP that WoT had, where the show was talked up, but a week or two after the finally it had 0 staying power, and wasn't being mentioned at all. This isn't some small time sci-fi channel show, this a show based on Tolkien on a platform hundreds of millions already have with a episode budget of ~60 million. This show should be crushing the competition, but it isn't.

You can like something and be in the minority. You can also like something and realize it has massive flaws, don't defend trash and try to make it better. The show needs a lot of work to be great.

Want examples, the whole arc of Galadriel is pretty garbage writing with horrible dialogue (THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME). Karen is right about evil, gets send away because she is apparently causing the elves to fade (FUCKING LOL), decides AT THE GATE of Valinor to jump ship thousands of leagues from land to not be found once, but twice at sea before being conveniently taken to the one place that has the power to help her (who apparently have submarine ships to fit hundreds of men, horses, and materials for an army they bring). Oh and it takes 7 episodes for a character driven by revenge/love of a family member to mention she had a husband who is gone too? That shit feels like a re shoot because they forgot.

Second example, the Hobbits, I mean Harfoots. No need to elaborate here.

It is so contrived it literally hurts to think about.

[eschatological]

If you actually trust what sycophant media and what Amazon says their numbers are, I've got a bridge to sell you. Streaming platforms are not beholden to actually be truthful about what their viewership numbers are. Amazon has tens of millions of Prime users, and we know that historically they've been struggling to get anywhere near the numbers that shows like GoT pulled at its peak. So if you actually believe what they say, then you really are a fool because there's no way this trash fan fiction is doing the numbers they claim they are.

Not being truthful about their viewership numbers to investors would be a breach of fiduciary duty, and illegal. Stop talking nonsense conspiracy theories.

[Levelfive]

1. The article you linked admits a 2023 date is unlikely, and most sources have said 2024, which is I guess not slow but certainly not a quick turn around exactly like I said.

2. Once again the article you linked talked about hitting 100 million (actually they admit is getting close, not hit yet) at episode 6 means a hefty fall off, considering they had 25 million the first episode, iirc 30% fallout between 1 and 2 means 17.5 for episode 2, meaning the last 4 averaged ~14.4 million, almost a 50% drop from episode 1. Considering the online presence of the show is largely negative the show is not having good legs.

3. You can see a similar trajectory in RoP that WoT had, where the show was talked up, but a week or two after the finally it had 0 staying power, and wasn't being mentioned at all. This isn't some small time sci-fi channel show, this a show based on Tolkien on a platform hundreds of millions already have with a episode budget of ~60 million. This show should be crushing the competition, but it isn't.

You can like something and be in the minority. You can also like something and realize it has massive flaws, don't defend trash and try to make it better. The show needs a lot of work to be great.

No, according to the article, it was 25 million the first two episodes.

Again, right there in the linked article and in my post: "With Amazon Studios intent on fast-tracking production, Rings of Power season 2 could premiere a lot sooner than initially expected. Filming is already underway, though considering the show's huge production scale, it likely won't be ready to air until late next year at the earliest. But make no mistake, a late 2023 release date would still be an impressively quick turnaround for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 2." So the opposite of what you said.

I'll let the fact that you still didn't link anything supporting your claims about numbers and dates speak for itself.